Unusual Side Effect From Dermastamp
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free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:54 am

Anyone here know why this would happen???

i dermastamped about 6 months ago now. It all seemed to go quite well, I followed all the things I was meant to do before hand, such as preparing the skin with vit c and terproline weeks before the roll, taking my supplements, and eating v healthily.

anyway, I rolled with a 0.75mm. Actually, a dermastamp. all seemed to go reallly well, seemed to heal up really well (was concerned about my healing, as prior accutane use many years ago, still had sensitized my skin - yet I can get the worst breakouts now, and it NEVER leaves an indent so figure my healing is much better! Even a small cut on my face that bled and scabbed, healed with no scarring whatsoever) So not understanding why tiny needles (o.75mm) would leave needle indentations??

Anyway, I did a test patch with dermastamp on my temples, where I have some acne scarring. Well, for some reason six months later, I notice, what looks like indentations from the dermastamp, but its very very faint, but still in strong lighting, I can see the outline of the needles, which seems strange to me, that I never noticed it bfre. I only did a test patch once, with dermastamp and never attempted it again. But now I really want to try it again.

Im thinking now maybe i should just avoid dermarolling/;stamping altogether. It seemed to heal up really well though initially, after the dermastamp test patch.

Any ideas or advice on why this has happened really appreciated??? A poster here also mentioned she experienced this same phenomena but only on the base of her neck.

I desperately would like to get rid of my acne scarring, but don't want to get tiny additional scarring caused from the needles. I used a 0.75 nova dermastamp.

P.S. When I noticed the indentations, I started using moisturiser again, and that seemed to fade it, but still now there is a faint outline of the dermastamp indentations.

Anyone know why this would occur, and what can be done to prevent it, if i try dermastamping again?

it's so discouraging bcoz when i attempted the dermastamping, it seemed to heal up amazingly well.

Warm Regards,

Stork

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:19 am

Are you sure they are indentations and not changes in pigmentation - can you feel the dots?

free skin care · Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:15 pm

Hi Firefox

I cannot feel the indentations whatsoever, only slightly slightly see it, in very strong lighting. They are very tiny. just like the needle points.

I just touchedf it now to check, and I do have a skin condition called 'seborrheic dermatitis' and it feels scaly and dry right there where the indents are. Hmmm.

Any other thoughts???

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:32 am

Microneedling can remove hyperpigmentation, it's can be effective on melasma for example. I wonder if you are seeing less pigmented dots rather than scarring? Tricks of light and shade could easily make the dots appear raised or indented.

The problem with microneedling over SD is that you are damaging the skin barrier, when it is weaker than average anyway, and both are inflammatory. You might modify the standard preparation or aftercare instructions to take account of your condition (I have inactive contact dermatitis and atopic eczema and do my own thing). Are you an OwnDoc customer? If so you might ask Sarah Vaughter about SD and dermastamping.

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:02 am

Thanks firefox

well, what's interesting, is that dermastamping never inflamed the dermatitis whatsoever.

A friend of mine, who is an expert with dermaneedling, mentioned to me it's not a good idea to apply topicals right after dermaneedling.

Maybe this may have had something to do with it. He recommended waiting at least a day, so that the microchannels could close up, properly.

Something I may try. But just wanted to add that in. what do you think firefox??

free skin care · Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:44 am

Stork wrote:

Thanks firefox

well, what's interesting, is that dermastamping never inflamed the dermatitis whatsoever.

A friend of mine, who is an expert with dermaneedling, mentioned to me it's not a good idea to apply topicals right after dermaneedling.

Maybe this may have had something to do with it. He recommended waiting at least a day, so that the microchannels could close up, properly.

Something I may try. But just wanted to add that in. what do you think firefox??

What is the source of your friend's information? AFAIK the authorities in the field (Dr Fernandes, Dr Setterfield) recommend applying products right after needling so that you DO get increased penetration. They also advocate keeping the area clean, which would be doubly important if the channels were open for twenty four hours (they are not, small wounds close quickly to prevent infection). You just need to think carefully about which product you apply because ALL the ingredients are bypassing the skin barrier not just the collagen-inducing actives. So a pH close to skin, being very careful with preservatives and emulsifiers. It's little different to applying products to other wounds - after a burn, an acid peel or a knife cut. You don't get best results by just letting these dry out and scab up.
http://www.dermogenesis.com/roll-cit/Clinics_of_N_Am_2005.pdf
http://www.amazon.com/The-Concise-Guide-Dermal-Needling/dp/0473173212
Because I have sensitive, eczematous skin I have chosen to go the anti-inflammatory/ healing route whereas others choose to let the inflammation run its course on the grounds it is part of the healing cascade. Going by the literature I strongly suspect both approaches are effective.

free skin care · Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:28 am

Thank you for sharing your advice.

Could you please elaborate on what is your anti inflammatory/healing route, that you choose?

And also, what cream/s do you apply after dermarolling??? I , too, have the very sensitive skin.

thanks again,

Maria

free skin care · Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:29 am

Thank you for sharing your advice.

Could you please elaborate on what is your anti inflammatory/healing route, that you choose?

And also, what cream/s do you apply after dermarolling??? I , too, have the very sensitive skin.

thanks again,

Maria

free skin care · Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:32 am

I think you are right about the "" Tricks of light and shade could easily make the dots appear raised or indented.""

Now when i look closely and with a bright light in the mirror, I can hardly see any indents there at all. Almost like it's healed up. I think it could be light and shade, as you mentioned.

free skin care · Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:47 am

Stork wrote:

Thank you for sharing your advice.

Could you please elaborate on what is your anti inflammatory/healing route, that you choose?

And also, what cream/s do you apply after dermarolling??? I , too, have the very sensitive skin.

thanks again,

Maria

The best thing I ever did for my skin was stop using any sulphate surfactants at all - shampoo, shower gel, face wash, hair dye, hand soap, toothpaste ... Quitting sulphates also improved my mother's skin substantially - she has atopic eczema and mild seborrhoeic dermatitis. Because sulphates are highly effective at stripping the sebum from your skin and wipes out all the skin flora (good and bad) SD can sometimes react negatively to quitting sulphates. My skin also dislikes alkaline soaps and many other anionic surfactants, so I cleanse with a lotion or a foaming product containing cocoamidopropyl betaine. It took me years to work this out because I don't get an obvious reaction to sulphates all over, it just makes my T-zone and scalp oilier, skin in general more dehydrated and more reactive to subsequent products.

Most times after I have dermarolled or done a lactic acid peel I have used either an organic aloe vera gel mixed with or layered with unrefined West African shea butter. More recently I have experimented with the Myfawnie KinNiaNag serum. Most of what I put ON my skin after rolling or peeling I would be willing to put IN my body.

I use aloe vera mixed with a lanolin and calendula cream most days having been impressed by the research on AV's anti-inflammatory, collagen inducing, healing and humectant properties. There are links to a selection of studies on aloe vera on the first page of this thread, see Rileygirl and my posts.
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=44821

Mine is a slightly unusual approach, and I am aware that I am experimenting on myself to some extent. It may be my results will be slower than others using retinoids and L-ascorbic acid, but my skin seems happier, healthier and more hydrated along the journey. Cool

If you do want to use vitamin C - it is an excellent active - there are less irritant forms than L-ascorbic acid such as AA2G or MAP.

free skin care · Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:15 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

I use aloe vera mixed with a lanolin and calendula cream most days having been impressed by the research on AV's anti-inflammatory, collagen inducing, healing and humectant properties.

Firefox7275, where do you take aloe vera and lanolin?

I heard one can make aloe vera mask right from the plant. Did you ever try it?

free skin care · Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:46 pm

RussianSunshine wrote:

Firefox7275, where do you take aloe vera and lanolin?

I heard one can make aloe vera mask right from the plant. Did you ever try it?

Aloe vera from the plant is associated with an increased risk of allergic reactions, whereas stabilised inner leaf gel is not. DarkMoon and I had a discussion on that with links to research in the 'Name that Fantastic Active' thread if you run a search. I also use products containing medical/ pharmaceutical grade lanolin which contains a balance of lipids but is highly purified so hypoallergenic.

Products I use include Aloe Pura gel, Devita, Weleda Baby calendula face cream, Weleda Skin Food, Rene Guinot Masque Essentiel, Lansinoh. Recently tried Triple Lanolin aloe vera hand and body lotion but don't much like the texture. HTH! Wink

free skin care · Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:02 pm

Great, that helps a lot. I was thinking about buying an aloe vera plant! Laughing

Do you use Lansinoh 100% Pure Lanolin:
http://www.bynature.ca/lansinoh-lanolin.html ?

Aloe pura gel must be from the UK?

Firefox7275 wrote:

RussianSunshine wrote:

Firefox7275, where do you take aloe vera and lanolin?

I heard one can make aloe vera mask right from the plant. Did you ever try it?

Aloe vera from the plant is associated with an increased risk of allergic reactions, whereas stabilised inner leaf gel is not. DarkMoon and I had a discussion on that with links to research in the 'Name that Fantastic Active' thread if you run a search. I also use products containing medical/ pharmaceutical grade lanolin which contains a balance of lipids but is highly purified so hypoallergenic.

Products I use include Aloe Pura gel, Devita, Weleda Baby calendula face cream, Weleda Skin Food, Rene Guinot Masque Essentiel, Lansinoh. Recently tried Triple Lanolin aloe vera hand and body lotion but don't much like the texture. HTH! Wink

free skin care · Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:06 pm

I've been using Skin Biology's Squalane with retinol right after dermastamping without any problem. Now I am thinking of making my own post-stamp mixture made of safflower oil, borage oil and Vit E and may be a drop or two of Retinyl Palmitate.

free skin care · Wed Jul 04, 2012 5:09 am

RussianSunshine wrote:

I've been using Skin Biology's Squalane with retinol right after dermastamping without any problem. Now I am thinking of making my own post-stamp mixture made of safflower oil, borage oil and Vit E and may be a drop or two of Retinyl Palmitate.

What is your rationale for that?

free skin care · Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:26 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

RussianSunshine wrote:

I've been using Skin Biology's Squalane with retinol right after dermastamping without any problem. Now I am thinking of making my own post-stamp mixture made of safflower oil, borage oil and Vit E and may be a drop or two of Retinyl Palmitate.

What is your rationale for that?

Hm... Because Dr F said so Very Happy

I am referring to his recommendation of using ACE oil post-roll.

free skin care · Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:17 am

RussianSunshine wrote:

Hm... Because Dr F said so Very Happy

I am referring to his recommendation of using ACE oil post-roll.

But there isn't any vitamin C in that recipe? Are those the oils he recommends? Why retinyl palmitate instead of retinol?

free skin care · Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:05 am

Dr F. uses retinyl palmitate, also called retinol palmitate. It's in most Environ products.

I have always wondered about the possibility of scarring with dermarolling. It's not something you can rule out completely.

free skin care · Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:35 pm

Stork wrote:

anyway, I rolled with a 0.75mm. Actually, a dermastamp. all seemed to go reallly well, seemed to heal up really well (was concerned about my healing, as prior accutane use many years ago, still had sensitized my skin - yet I can get the worst breakouts now, and it NEVER leaves an indent so figure my healing is much better! Even a small cut on my face that bled and scabbed, healed with no scarring whatsoever) So not understanding why tiny needles (o.75mm) would leave needle indentations??

Though I am not an expert but I think .75mm needle thickness is too much for dermaneedling... that's a gauge for a huge injecting syringe!

free skin care · Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:25 pm

daler wrote:

Stork wrote:

anyway, I rolled with a 0.75mm. Actually, a dermastamp. all seemed to go reallly well, seemed to heal up really well (was concerned about my healing, as prior accutane use many years ago, still had sensitized my skin - yet I can get the worst breakouts now, and it NEVER leaves an indent so figure my healing is much better! Even a small cut on my face that bled and scabbed, healed with no scarring whatsoever) So not understanding why tiny needles (o.75mm) would leave needle indentations??

Though I am not an expert but I think .75mm needle thickness is too much for dermaneedling... that's a gauge for a huge injecting syringe!

That is .75mm long, I believe (not thick)

free skin care · Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:28 pm

bethany wrote:

daler wrote:

Stork wrote:

anyway, I rolled with a 0.75mm. Actually, a dermastamp. all seemed to go reallly well, seemed to heal up really well (was concerned about my healing, as prior accutane use many years ago, still had sensitized my skin - yet I can get the worst breakouts now, and it NEVER leaves an indent so figure my healing is much better! Even a small cut on my face that bled and scabbed, healed with no scarring whatsoever) So not understanding why tiny needles (o.75mm) would leave needle indentations??

Though I am not an expert but I think .75mm needle thickness is too much for dermaneedling... that's a gauge for a huge injecting syringe!

That is .75mm long, I believe (not thick)

ah ok, that makes sense! lol

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