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Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:25 pm  |
I know there are lots of posts re. facial exercises, but I am wondering if there is anyone here who has actually been able to eliminate - or at least greatly improve - marionette lines (the ones from the corners of the mouth down the chin).
Am almost 52 and I deeply hate those things. Since starting menopause, they have deepened and I don't even like to look in the mirror anymore. I am willing to work at facial exercises and do them several times daily, but if a lower facelift is the only thing that will help I don't want to waste my time.
In case skincare makes a difference, I am using DIY vitamin C serum, rosehip oil, DermaE microdermabrasion scrub, Andalou Organics Night cream and facial wash, and that's pretty much it. I've used the vit c serum for about 8 weeks now and my skin looks pretty good and even-toned, but the marionette lines are driving me nuts. |
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:14 pm |
Nonie, thanks so much for the links!! With some of them, I can't tell a difference between the before/after, but a few are quite impressive. And thanks for the discussion links, looks like lots of differing opinions.  |
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Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:21 pm |
| tompet wrote: |
| Nonie, thanks so much for the links!! With some of them, I can't tell a difference between the before/after, but a few are quite impressive. And thanks for the discussion links, looks like lots of differing opinions. |
Face exercises changes can be so unique to each person that not only can changes happen sooner in some areas before others in a different order from one person to the next but also dramatic changes in some people may only show after years of the exercises, and so minimal changes may be hard for outsiders to see. But I can bet my bottom dollar that the people to whom these changes matter the most (the owners of the faces) the changes are remarkable enough for them to want to show them off. You know the saying "you are your own worst critic"? It is true for most people so I do believe that there would not be publicly posted photos if the owners of the faces were not so pleased with the improvements that they wanted to show them off.
The beginnings of marionette lines I think are in the corners of the mouth pointing downward and in some of the photos I linked to, the fix was just the erasing of that downward turned crease at the corner of the mouth thus halting the formation of the lines.
Indeed different lighting and angles can make it difficult to compare before and after photos, but considering that most people simply tell about their results without posting any evidence, I think we can take these people's word for it: that there was a lift in the muscles of the face and a filling out that smoothed out the lines ever so slightly--even if we can only guess the existence of some of the changes from those seen in the more noticeable areas.
And yes, there are many ways to get to Rome so you will find people use different methods to address the withering of our faces. In the DIY forum, you will find many people who do face exercises, also use gadgets, special skincare products and eat well or take supplements all in the name of fighting the signs of aging. Most of them started with one thing and slowly added on other things as needed. |
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Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:56 am |
Thanks for your replies, Nonie. Appears there isn't anyone here with facial exercise success stories, which verifies what I suspected. Guess I'd better start saving for a nip and tuck.  |
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Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:11 am |
| tompet wrote: |
| Thanks for your replies, Nonie. Appears there isn't anyone here with facial exercise success stories, which verifies what I suspected. Guess I'd better start saving for a nip and tuck. |
Filler is also an option, though you have to be careful that it doesn't make you look puffy. And filling deeper grooves can be pretty pricey. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:22 am |
| tompet wrote: |
| Thanks for your replies, Nonie. Appears there isn't anyone here with facial exercise success stories, which verifies what I suspected. Guess I'd better start saving for a nip and tuck. |
tompet the absence of responses doesn't mean that there is no one here with facial exercise success stories. Just means none of those who have seen your question have stories about having marionette lines that were improved by face exercises or want to share them.
There are many people on EDS who have shared about having success with face exercises. In fact, one of the links I posted above shows a photo of Cathy who is a member here. I, too, have had wonderful results with face exercises; I just have never had marionette lines...but then again I have done face exercises since a year after I left teenage so I guess I never gave marionette lines a chance to develop.
FWIW, Cathy has posted photos of her face taken years after the black-and-white photos I linked to above were taken and the marionette lines you saw in the black-and-white "before" photo are not there in the newer photos. You can see the photos I speak of in her post here: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=42710&start=76 (her post is the second post on Page 4 in case link does not take you there directly)
So you may have to comb through some long face exercises threads to find some answers as not everyone gets to see every thread posted...and so no response to a discussion asking for results does not mean no results exist. |
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Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:59 am |
Hi Bethany, the ongoing expense is exactly why I don't want to start with fillers. I suspect if one gets them as often as needed, after several years the amount of money spent will add up to what one would have paid for a lift.
Nonie, yes, could be no one wants to share. I will sift through other threads and see what I can find.
Anyway, thanks to both of you for your kind replies! |
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Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:12 pm |
rather than think that they do not want to share.
| tompet wrote: |
Nonrather than think that they do not want to share.e, yes, could be no one wants to share. I will sift through other threads and see what I can find.
Anyway, thanks to both of you for your kind replies! |
You're welcome. But rather than conclude that people do not want to share, I am inclined to think that the more likely reason for no input is that people who may have the results you seek are not reading the forum now (People do take breaks every now and then, or leave for good for that matter!) or they may be focused/involved in other discussions that are top priority to them and therefore not aware of yours. I mean, Cathy was forthcoming with her photos before now, so why would she suddenly not want to share? It makes more sense to me to deduce that she has a life apart from this forum and doesn't spend as much time here as those who need her input might want her to.
You will find from reading the threads on face exercises or gadgets that people share their experiences if they happen to be involved in a discussion where results relevant to their experiences are mentioned. I think most people move on to other things once they find their answers and a topic that held their interest before is replaced by something new. Once in a while you might get lucky and have some former candidates of your quest online when you need them. But oftentimes using the "Search" feature seems to be the better way to find answers from discussions that were once relevant to others but are only now getting your attention. |
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Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:12 pm |
| tompet wrote: |
I know there are lots of posts re. facial exercises, but I am wondering if there is anyone here who has actually been able to eliminate - or at least greatly improve - marionette lines (the ones from the corners of the mouth down the chin).
Am almost 52 and I deeply hate those things. Since starting menopause, they have deepened and I don't even like to look in the mirror anymore. I am willing to work at facial exercises and do them several times daily, but if a lower facelift is the only thing that will help I don't want to waste my time.
In case skincare makes a difference, I am using DIY vitamin C serum, rosehip oil, DermaE microdermabrasion scrub, Andalou Organics Night cream and facial wash, and that's pretty much it. I've used the vit c serum for about 8 weeks now and my skin looks pretty good and even-toned, but the marionette lines are driving me nuts. |
Have you tried microcurrent devices? I am using the Nu Face and after approximately 2 months I am seeing a decent improvement. I also just started some facial exercises and I assume those are helping as well, but I havent been doing them as long as the Nu Face. |
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Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:14 am |
| Bella, I've read about them (on this forum and others) but haven't tried them. Am kind of on the fence as some people seem to have zero or minimal results. Do you have marionette lines or other issues? |
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Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:22 pm |
| tompet wrote: |
| Bella, I've read about them (on this forum and others) but haven't tried them. Am kind of on the fence as some people seem to have zero or minimal results. Do you have marionette lines or other issues? |
I'm 41. I do have some issues with those as well as the 11s and sagging jowls, due to a couple of bad years in which I stressed a lot and had little sleep. I've been doing the Nu Face and I think it's helping. In moderation, I certainly dont think it can hurt...if you have the cash, it might be worth it to start using one of the microcurrent devices on the market and take advatnage of whatever benefit it offers. You cant know until you try...that's the conclusion I reached, so for now I am sticking to using it once a day as directed. |
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Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:08 pm |
| bellabambiiina wrote: |
| tompet wrote: |
| Bella, I've read about them (on this forum and others) but haven't tried them. Am kind of on the fence as some people seem to have zero or minimal results. Do you have marionette lines or other issues? |
I'm 41. I do have some issues with those as well as the 11s and sagging jowls, due to a couple of bad years in which I stressed a lot and had little sleep. I've been doing the Nu Face and I think it's helping. In moderation, I certainly dont think it can hurt...if you have the cash, it might be worth it to start using one of the microcurrent devices on the market and take advatnage of whatever benefit it offers. You cant know until you try...that's the conclusion I reached, so for now I am sticking to using it once a day as directed. |
I agree with you, bellabambiiina. Getting zero to minimal results is better than doing nothing and letting deterioration due to age continue. Also, I do think people give up too quickly if results don't come overnight.
The age of "nip and tuck" has people wanting microwaved meals NOW and not appreciating well-seasoned, slow-cooked casseroles that had been marinated for a spell before cooking. I have always believed "easy come, easy go"...so personally I prefer procedures whose results build up slowly. I kinda feel as if "slow but sure" is an accurate way of describing the development that happens gradually. I liken it to an invention that is not rushed but painstakingly put together so every piece and layer is put in place perfectly in a way that ensures stability and durability.
In the case of face toning, if you consider that it took all those years of doing nothing to get your muscles to where they are today, then why should we expect it to take just a few months to reverse that? In another discussion, I shared that I personally believe in starting "easy" ie with gentle toning and only adding resistance later. I believe a lot of trainers followed that route and therefore laid a good foundation and prepped their muscles for the exercises that use resistance which they added later.
Programs like Eva Fraser's do start off easy...and I was lucky to have found her program first so had that "prepping" first and I did the beginner workout for so many months before moving on to the intermediate program. I wanted to make sure I had reached the peak of what the beginner's program was capable of effecting before moving on.
I do believe starting easy and then building on those exercises is why most trainers appear to be good reps of what their programs can do. But most students assume that the more gung-ho they are, the more sure their results will be, but often that thinking leads to disappointment. Or they look at the journeys of others and assume that a method isn't working if their results don't happen in the same time frame--forgetting that history, genetics, lifestyle, etc affect how responsive each person's muscles are so that we cannot measure our progress with the scale of another, but have to allow time to show us uniquely whether something is working or not.
Anyway, bellabambiiina while I don't know anything about gadgets, I suspect the regimen you are on of using the microcurrent once a day can be considered "starting easy" and your observation of minimal positive changes is a good thing. I say if it is not changing your face in ways you don't like, and if there are no risks/negative effects you have heard of or seen, keep at it because those baby steps will make a difference in the long run.
tompet if while doing your research you see a post by someone who solved a similar problem as this naturally, perhaps send him or her a PM and s/he may be able to give you more information/encouragement, maybe even share photos. People who are not comfortable putting themselves out there on a public forum may be comfortable sharing information in private. Also you may get the attention of someone who can give some insight via PM if they miss your thread and therefore your need for their wisdom. |
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:44 am |
I never had MLs but had NLs and got rid of those through facial exercising. Its not the answer you are looking for I know, but hey if I can get rid of NLs then you probably can get rid of MLs. I think one of the things you need to look at is skincare though too - you can do all the exercising you want, but if you don't look after the skin and use good quality things then they will probably stay around
| tompet wrote: |
| Thanks for your replies, Nonie. Appears there isn't anyone here with facial exercise success stories, which verifies what I suspected. Guess I'd better start saving for a nip and tuck. |
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Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:10 am |
Bella, thanks for the info, I will look into the nuFace. I have 11's as well, not a single horizontal line on my forehead, but those darn verticals make up for it. My upper face seems to be holding up pretty well, the aging is concentrated on the lower part. Maybe relocating to a country where the ladies wear veils to cover their lower faces might be an easy solution.
Nonie, good idea to PM someone who seems to have solved this problem, will do that.
Theresa, I think my skin care is pretty effective, the vit c serum in particular has made a great difference. I don't have many wrinkles at all, just the 11's and those stupid marionette lines. I've tried copper peptides (for a year), nothing much. Also tried MUAC's Argireline cream for the 11's, nothing.
I found a thread on here about Tanaka facial massage, that looks interesting as well. |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:46 am |
If you have the forehead lines, you may want to look into frownies. They are these little gummed bits of paper that you put on your face at night and stop you from making the wrinkles during your sleep.
With CPs there are various strengths, and most people don't realise with any remodelling agent part of the important process involved is exfoliating the skin to make way for the newer cells. You haven't mentioned that, but I'm sure you have been doing it but it might be worth while asking on the SkinBio forum for guidance too.
| tompet wrote: |
Bella, thanks for the info, I will look into the nuFace. I have 11's as well, not a single horizontal line on my forehead, but those darn verticals make up for it. My upper face seems to be holding up pretty well, the aging is concentrated on the lower part. Maybe relocating to a country where the ladies wear veils to cover their lower faces might be an easy solution.
Nonie, good idea to PM someone who seems to have solved this problem, will do that.
Theresa, I think my skin care is pretty effective, the vit c serum in particular has made a great difference. I don't have many wrinkles at all, just the 11's and those stupid marionette lines. I've tried copper peptides (for a year), nothing much. Also tried MUAC's Argireline cream for the 11's, nothing.
I found a thread on here about Tanaka facial massage, that looks interesting as well. |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:15 am |
| Nonie aka AD wrote: |
| bellabambiiina wrote: |
| tompet wrote: |
| Bella, I've read about them (on this forum and others) but haven't tried them. Am kind of on the fence as some people seem to have zero or minimal results. Do you have marionette lines or other issues? |
I'm 41. I do have some issues with those as well as the 11s and sagging jowls, due to a couple of bad years in which I stressed a lot and had little sleep. I've been doing the Nu Face and I think it's helping. In moderation, I certainly dont think it can hurt...if you have the cash, it might be worth it to start using one of the microcurrent devices on the market and take advatnage of whatever benefit it offers. You cant know until you try...that's the conclusion I reached, so for now I am sticking to using it once a day as directed. |
I agree with you, bellabambiiina. Getting zero to minimal results is better than doing nothing and letting deterioration due to age continue. Also, I do think people give up too quickly if results don't come overnight.
The age of "nip and tuck" has people wanting microwaved meals NOW and not appreciating well-seasoned, slow-cooked casseroles that had been marinated for a spell before cooking. I have always believed "easy come, easy go"...so personally I prefer procedures whose results build up slowly. I kinda feel as if "slow but sure" is an accurate way of describing the development that happens gradually. I liken it to an invention that is not rushed but painstakingly put together so every piece and layer is put in place perfectly in a way that ensures stability and durability.
In the case of face toning, if you consider that it took all those years of doing nothing to get your muscles to where they are today, then why should we expect it to take just a few months to reverse that? In another discussion, I shared that I personally believe in starting "easy" ie with gentle toning and only adding resistance later. I believe a lot of trainers followed that route and therefore laid a good foundation and prepped their muscles for the exercises that use resistance which they added later.
Programs like Eva Fraser's do start off easy...and I was lucky to have found her program first so had that "prepping" first and I did the beginner workout for so many months before moving on to the intermediate program. I wanted to make sure I had reached the peak of what the beginner's program was capable of effecting before moving on.
I do believe starting easy and then building on those exercises is why most trainers appear to be good reps of what their programs can do. But most students assume that the more gung-ho they are, the more sure their results will be, but often that thinking leads to disappointment. Or they look at the journeys of others and assume that a method isn't working if their results don't happen in the same time frame--forgetting that history, genetics, lifestyle, etc affect how responsive each person's muscles are so that we cannot measure our progress with the scale of another, but have to allow time to show us uniquely whether something is working or not.
Anyway, bellabambiiina while I don't know anything about gadgets, I suspect the regimen you are on of using the microcurrent once a day can be considered "starting easy" and your observation of minimal positive changes is a good thing. I say if it is not changing your face in ways you don't like, and if there are no risks/negative effects you have heard of or seen, keep at it because those baby steps will make a difference in the long run.
tompet if while doing your research you see a post by someone who solved a similar problem as this naturally, perhaps send him or her a PM and s/he may be able to give you more information/encouragement, maybe even share photos. People who are not comfortable putting themselves out there on a public forum may be comfortable sharing information in private. Also you may get the attention of someone who can give some insight via PM if they miss your thread and therefore your need for their wisdom. |
Nonie you are quite right. SO important in my opinion to go in BABYSTEPS and not expect dramatic results. For example would anyone in their right mind do ONE workout and expect to transform their body in that one day? Not likely. You would hope that any same person would be reasonable enough to expect that no matter how badly they want their body to change, they would give it at least 1 to 2 months to see the effects of exercise and working out.
Also very important not to overdo ANYTHING when trying to correct facial/skin flaws, as oftentimes overdoing things can makes things worse. I am sure that if you use the NuFace more than directed, it would have some adverse effect, and I cant help thinking that at least some of those who complain of facial exercises making them look worse might be guilty of overdoing it. I think it might be best to start slowly. |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:16 am |
| TheresaMary wrote: |
If you have the forehead lines, you may want to look into frownies. They are these little gummed bits of paper that you put on your face at night and stop you from making the wrinkles during your sleep.
With CPs there are various strengths, and most people don't realise with any remodelling agent part of the important process involved is exfoliating the skin to make way for the newer cells. You haven't mentioned that, but I'm sure you have been doing it but it might be worth while asking on the SkinBio forum for guidance too.
| tompet wrote: |
Bella, thanks for the info, I will look into the nuFace. I have 11's as well, not a single horizontal line on my forehead, but those darn verticals make up for it. My upper face seems to be holding up pretty well, the aging is concentrated on the lower part. Maybe relocating to a country where the ladies wear veils to cover their lower faces might be an easy solution.
Nonie, good idea to PM someone who seems to have solved this problem, will do that.
Theresa, I think my skin care is pretty effective, the vit c serum in particular has made a great difference. I don't have many wrinkles at all, just the 11's and those stupid marionette lines. I've tried copper peptides (for a year), nothing much. Also tried MUAC's Argireline cream for the 11's, nothing.
I found a thread on here about Tanaka facial massage, that looks interesting as well. |
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I second the frownies. |
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Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:12 am |
Yes, I do use at-home microdermabrasion scrub 3 - 4 times a week, forgot to mention that. I think the Vit C serum also helps with exfoliation and cell turnover.
So the frownies do work for 11's, might have to try those.
Have been looking at various ultrasonic facial massagers with red LED lights, those look interesting as well. There is sooo much stuff out there, I wish it would be easier to determine what works and what doesn't without having to spend $$$$$$$$ to try all of it. |
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Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:54 am |
Frownies are much cheaper and definitely work for 11's, plus good old massage does too.
| tompet wrote: |
Yes, I do use at-home microdermabrasion scrub 3 - 4 times a week, forgot to mention that. I think the Vit C serum also helps with exfoliation and cell turnover.
So the frownies do work for 11's, might have to try those.
Have been looking at various ultrasonic facial massagers with red LED lights, those look interesting as well. There is sooo much stuff out there, I wish it would be easier to determine what works and what doesn't without having to spend $$$$$$$$ to try all of it. |
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