Help with Obagi Nu-derm products - which to buy?
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Sun May 06, 2012 1:07 pm

I made another post on here but realized I really needed more help with which products to get so I'm posting a new thread.

I'm looking through the list on the EDS store of the Obagi Nu-derm line and I am having trouble deciding which ones to get. I'm jumping back on the nu-derm bandwagon and want to restart my regimen now that I have the funds to get the rest of the products, and actually do it RIGHT this time. A year or so ago I bought the Toner (2), Exfoderm forte (4), Clear (3), and the Foaming Gel (1). I've been using the foaming gel and toner on their own for a whole year now, but not with the other products. My skin is not bad, no acne scars, but I have an oily nose and quite big pores and blackheads. General lightening of my skin and to get rid of some freckles and blemishes are what I'm looking for.

I have some random questions...

One thing that's kind of alarming to me is how often hydroquinone is added to the products in this line. Clear contains it and so does the blender and the sunfader. Applying all three would triple the amount of hydroquinone entering your skin. Is this excessive?

What's the difference between the sunfader and the regular the healthy skin protection spf 35?

Moisturizing - Can I moisturize while using nu-derm? My skin feels tight after the foaming gel and toner and it worries me because it seems my skin is calling out for moisture.

How long do these products last? I'm talking about all the nu-derm products and other things like the vitamin c serums. The four bottles I have from a year back = are they still good?

Vitamin c serum - which is the best? After reading all the rave reviews of the skinceuticals c e ferrulic, I am tempted to buy but still hesitating because of the price. How does that compare with the obagi pro c serum? How does it fit into my nu derm routine? Does it come before you apply your nu derm?

Do I need to get the eye cream and the Elastiderm as well? I'm 26 but I'm all for preventative measures against aging skin. If not, what can I use that's appropriate for me instead of the Nu-derm ones? I don't have wrinkles yet but I am seeing some sagging of the cheeks since 1 year ago and more prominent smile lines which bug me.

I'll also be getting the Shalaks Retin-A 0.025% gel from ADC, and a Clarisonic Mia. Can the Mia be used with the nuderm routine? I'm thinking of getting the cream version too in case I don't take too well to the gel, because this is my first time using Retin-A.

And finally what is the best nu-derm routine to follow for amazing skin? Aside from the Retin-A and the Vitamin C serum, what other accessory products can I add to really boost the effectiveness (something with AHA/BHA maybe)? I have 1.5 months to hibernate at home this summer so I really want to take advantage of this opportunity lol.

Thank you so much in advance!!!

Tue May 08, 2012 11:31 am

Hey there. I'm just going to bullet list replies to your questions. I'm at week 17 with Nu-Derm so just a week more to go and hopefully can help.
1. It seems like the only product you are missing is the Blender to be combined with the Retin-A. From what I've read, it doesn't mix well with gel, only cream retin-A.
2. I was also hesitant to use so much hydroquinone. I did not use Sunfader - only Sunguard and/or Sun shield, neither of which have hydroquinone so that cuts down a bit on use. Since my pigmentation wasn't too bad, I also only used Clear once daily in AM instead of twice.
3. Difference between Sunfader and other Obagi Sunscreens. First, the hydroquinone and also the Sunfader is only SPF 15. Other two are 35 and 50. Sunshield SPF 50 has been my favorite because it soaks in more easily and doesn't leave the white mask that the Sunguard left.
4. I have not moisturized more than 2 times with Nu Derm. Your skin will adjust and start to balance itself out. They say you can use Action or Tolereen creams to combat soreness/burning on really bad days in early stages, but I never did. The only times I used moisturizer was when I had to put on makeup for events and needed to smooth out some flaky areas.
5. I'm on week 17 and still have original Exfoderm, Blender and Clear. I needed more toner and cleanser at about 12 weeks in. I'm about at the end of the other products, though. I only used 1/2 gram of each (as Rx'd for me) so that might be why.
6. I can't speak as to which Vit. C serum is best. I did not use any, but it would come after you tone and before applying other Nu Derm products.
7. I LOVE the Elastiderm eye cream. While you don't need it, it's a great cream and helped combat dryness when I was in the worst stages of peeling/redness and kept my eye area from feeling tight.
8. And I wouldn't have attempted Nu Derm without my Clarisonic!! It saved me and really helped get rid of the peelies every AM. When my skin was really red and sensitive I used the sensitive/rosacea brush on the Clarisonic instead of the regular one. It still did the trick. I woke up every morning with what my husband called a skin beard and the Mia removed all of that and didn't over-aggravate my skin.

Sorry so long. Hope this helps you! I love my results with Nu Derm. It's totally worth the worst weeks in the early stages!

free skin care · Tue May 08, 2012 3:52 pm

Obagi is a pretty aggressive treatment regime, the whole thing not just the hydroquinone. Is there any reason you have chosen that over a series of home peels plus tyrosinase inhibitors? Oily skin, tightness, enlarged pores plus blackheads can often denote a skin under stress/ dehydration, Obagi will only worsen that. IIRC their foaming cleanser is based on harsh sulphate surfactants which you definitely do not need to follow with a toner. You might find simply switching to a gentler cleansing routine improves your skin. Whenever skin is peeling you should make efforts to keep the skin hydrated, leaving the flakes in place so that they protect the new baby skin underneath. Scrubbing the flakes off with a Clarisonic is not that different from picking a scab. Do bear in mind that much irritation/ inflammation is invisible so what you see on the surface is far from the whole story.

You can make your own hyperpigmentation serums cheaply. Both recipes include links to published research on each active
http://www.skincaretalk.com/a/sea-c-serum-with-video-tutorial
http://www.skincaretalk.com/a/kinnianag-kinetin-b3-nag-antiaging-anti-acne-serum
Kits for making several batches of these two recipes here
http://stores.skinessentialactives.com/-strse-SEA-Lab-cln-SEA-Lab-Kits/Categories.bok
If you decide to go the peels route or your skin gets irritated with Obagi you might be better using a non-acidic but equally active form of vitamin C such as magnesium ascorbyl phosphate http://www.skincaretalk.com/a/map-serum-10

Don't forget you also need a high SPF sunscreen, chemical ones can be irritant whereas zinc oxide helps keep breakouts and infections away whilst your skin barrier is weakened. Chemical sunscreens also need to be applied to bare skin which obviously presents a problem if you are layering on Retin-A, hydroquinone etc. The Devita ones are based on aloe vera which has proven healing, anti-inflammatory and collagen inducing properties.

Wed May 09, 2012 2:26 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Obagi is a pretty aggressive treatment regime, the whole thing not just the hydroquinone. Is there any reason you have chosen that over a series of home peels plus tyrosinase inhibitors? Oily skin, tightness, enlarged pores plus blackheads can often denote a skin under stress/ dehydration, Obagi will only worsen that. IIRC their foaming cleanser is based on harsh sulphate surfactants which you definitely do not need to follow with a toner. You might find simply switching to a gentler cleansing routine improves your skin. Whenever skin is peeling you should make efforts to keep the skin hydrated, leaving the flakes in place so that they protect the new baby skin underneath. Scrubbing the flakes off with a Clarisonic is not that different from picking a scab. Do bear in mind that much irritation/ inflammation is invisible so what you see on the surface is far from the whole story.

Wow, reading that is such a downer. I was asking in another thread which of the Obagi cleansers didn't contain sulphate surfactants but nobody responded to it. But well, enough people have had great results with Obagi that I am willing to give it a try.

Yesterday I bought the Blender, the Obagi Sunscreen with the SPF 50, the Elastiderm Eye Gel, and the Skinceutical C E Ferulic and now I'm going to get the Retin A from ADC as well as the Clarisonic brush.

I thought I had found someone to do a group buy with at ADC but I think s/he's a scammer. Oh well, I guess I have no choice but to spend the $25 for shipping. What a rip off though!

BTW, Fla_mom, what brush head do you use for your clarisonic when getting rid of your flakes? I believe the Mia comes with a sensitive head brush. Should I get a deep pore one, or is that a bit excessive? I have quite delicate skin.

Wed May 09, 2012 2:29 pm

Wow, I just found out ADC does not ship to Canada, and neither does ReliableRXPharmacy or whatever its name is.

I think I found one at buy-pharma dot com but I am not sure if the "supatret" is a trustworthy brand.

Maybe I should just buy the Obagi trentinoin rather than risk it with generic. This is so stupid and frustrating!

free skin care · Wed May 09, 2012 3:02 pm

jackitty wrote:

Wow, I just found out ADC does not ship to Canada, and neither does ReliableRXPharmacy or whatever its name is.

I think I found one at buy-pharma dot com but I am not sure if the "supatret" is a trustworthy brand.

Maybe I should just buy the Obagi trentinoin rather than risk it with generic. This is so stupid and frustrating!

Have you tried MedsMex? I order from them regularly and have always been very happy with their products. I do recommend using a one time credit card, however.

Regarding Obagi...it can be a very tough regimen, but it does produce results. Make sure you acquaint yourself with the exact amounts to be used each day (standard protocol below). Also, the protocol is designed to work together to increase penetration of the Retin A and HQ, so it is not recommended that you swap out any products. I have Dr. Obagi's dermatology text book that he wrote and it focuses heavily on Nu Derm and what each piece does...I didn't fully appreciate the depth of the program until I read the book.

Standard protocol:
http://www.truebeauty.com/q5.php

Also, there are different Nu Derm protocols based on your skin type...here is a form that will help you pick the best protocol for you:
http://www.truebeauty.com/q7.php

All the protocols:
http://www.truebeauty.com/q6.php

FYI...I tried the standard protocol, and was not able to handle it. But I wished I had at least stuck through one of the less aggressive ones, since the results are nothing short of amazing.

free skin care · Wed May 09, 2012 3:18 pm

bethany wrote:

Make sure you acquaint yourself with the exact amounts to be used each day (standard protocol below).

Yes, the most important part is to use the correct amount of all the products.

free skin care · Thu May 10, 2012 11:05 pm

Started Nu Derm a week ago. Bought Blender, Clear and Exfoderm and using Stieva A tretinoin 0.1%. Using Shiseido cleanser (which is ph balanced) and diluted ACV as a toner to bring the ph level to the same levek as the Obagi Toner. No Sunfader and using LRP Anthelios XL 50+ sunscreen. My beloved Skinceuticals UV Defense SPF 30 sticks to the flaking skin like coconut flakes on a macaroon!

Fla_mom: How much Clear are you using AM/PM? If I use 1 gram each time, that means need to purchase a new bottle every 28 days. Are you using Obagi for pigmentation problems? I'm amazed you have such good results if you're still on the same 57 gram bottle of Clear. I may consider to reduce my dose then...

free skin care · Thu May 10, 2012 11:15 pm

Re which vitamin C: Forgot to mention I use Skinceuticals C & E Ferulic after the toner. Heard this is the choice of dermatologists and also the the ferulic helps the effectiveness of the vitamin C. Better than vitamin C only serums. That being said, I did try the Obagi C Clarifying Serum, which is 4% hydroquinone and vitamin C, and it worked really well for pigmentation. I will go back to this every other day once I am complete the Nu Derm.

The Clarisonic works great to help polish off the flakes and supposedly the sonic vibrations clean the skin deeply so products are better absorbed.

Fri May 11, 2012 12:49 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Obagi is a pretty aggressive treatment regime, the whole thing not just the hydroquinone. Is there any reason you have chosen that over a series of home peels plus tyrosinase inhibitors? Oily skin, tightness, enlarged pores plus blackheads can often denote a skin under stress/ dehydration, Obagi will only worsen that. IIRC their foaming cleanser is based on harsh sulphate surfactants which you definitely do not need to follow with a toner.

So is there an alternative to the Nu-derm cleansers that DON'T contain sulphate surfactants that could do the same job?

Can anyone recommend me something?

Fri May 11, 2012 12:57 pm

denisiel wrote:

Re which vitamin C: Forgot to mention I use Skinceuticals C & E Ferulic after the toner. Heard this is the choice of dermatologists and also the the ferulic helps the effectiveness of the vitamin C. Better than vitamin C only serums. That being said, I did try the Obagi C Clarifying Serum, which is 4% hydroquinone and vitamin C, and it worked really well for pigmentation. I will go back to this every other day once I am complete the Nu Derm.

The Clarisonic works great to help polish off the flakes and supposedly the sonic vibrations clean the skin deeply so products are better absorbed.

I'm hoping with all the hydroquinone from the Obagi products I am putting on my face, AND the C E Ferulic, something is going to work and my pigmentation will start fading. Will it be safe to continue using the Obagi Clarying Serum long term? I'm a bit wary of continuing to use anything with hydroquinone once I finish the nu-derm regime.

You mentioned you're using Stieva A tretinoin 0.1%, that's a high strength to start with (unless you've used tretinoin before). Is Stieva any better than the generic one by Shalaks?

How is the Shiseido cleanser? Is it better than the one by Obagi?

free skin care · Fri May 11, 2012 8:50 pm

jackitty wrote:

Will it be safe to continue using the Obagi Clarying Serum long term? I'm a bit wary of continuing to use anything with hydroquinone once I finish the nu-derm regime.[/quote]

- Hi jackitty: In maintenance, to keep pigmentation from returning, you have to use some sort of ingredient that inhibits melanin production. My plan is to use the C Clarifying Serum every other day and go back to azelaic acid 20% (Skinoren) at night. Skinoren took away 70% of my melasma in six months so I know it has some effect. I hope to wean off the hydroquinone eventually but it does seem to be lightening the remaining melasma and I have only been on Nu Derm for one week (although it's hard to tell because my skin is so red if it is lighter or just too red to see well). Tretinoin also works great at keeping pigmentation from forming so I will also continue with it on maintenance.

- I also plan to shock my skin every 4 months and go back on Nu Derm for 6 week treatments to keep the cells active.

You mentioned you're using Stieva A tretinoin 0.1%, that's a high strength to start with (unless you've used tretinoin before). Is Stieva any better than the generic one by Shalaks?

- I haven't tried Shalaks. I tried Retin-A and Ketrel and another European brand whose name I forgot in .05% and the Stieva-A in 0.1%. I started on tretinoin in .05% 14 months ago and still used that strength on my neck, eyes, chin and forehead. But for Skinoren, I mix it with 0.1% for the melasma on my cheeks because the studies all used 0.1%.

- IMHO, all tretinoin creams are pretty much the same unless there is something in the bases that clog your pores or cause allergies. I only buy ones made in France, USA or Singapore.

How is the Shiseido cleanser? Is it better than the one by Obagi?[/quote]

- Shiseido Benefiance Extra Creamy Cleansing Foam is the best (well, second to Shu Uemura Cleansing Oil but we are not supposed to use any oils on Nu Derm). Didn't try the Obagi because I read you need a ph balanced cleanser and the Obagi seems inferior to Shiseido:

Ingredients: Water (Aqua), Stearic Acid, PEG-8, Myristic Acid, Glycerin, Potassium Hydroxide, Dipropylene Glycol,Lauric Acid, Glyceryl Stearate SE, Sorbitol, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, PEG-60 Glyceryl Isostearate,<br/>Polyethylene, Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate, Fragrance (Parfum), Phytosteryl Macadamiate, Polyquaternium-39, Talc, Disodium EDTA, Butylphenyl Methylpropional, Limonene, Iron Oxides (CI 7492),Linalool, Citronellol, Ethylcellulose, Alpha-Isomethyl Ionone, Geraniol, Sodium Hyaluronate, Butylene Glycol, Sodium Benzoate, Serine, Sophora Angustifolia Root Extract , Iron Oxides (CI 77491),Tocopherol.

Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:21 am

I finally received my new Obagi cleanser, but the store packed the wrong one and gave me the Skinceuticals Gentle Cleanser instead! It's about $8.00 more than the Obagi. Should I use this one?

The Skinceuticals Gentle Cleanser Ingredients:
Water, Carbomer, C12-15 Alkyl Benzoate, Methyl Gluceth-20, Cetyl Alcohol, Tridecyl Stearate, Neopentyl Glycol Dicaprylate/Dicaprate, Glycerly Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Tridecyl Trimellitate, Citrus Aurantium Dulcis (Orange) Oil, Allantoin, Polysorbate 20, Triethanolamine, Disodium EDTA, Phenoxyethanol (and) Methylparaben (and) Butylparaben, Ethylparaben (and) Propylparaben (and) Isobutylparaben

I don't like what I see with all the parabens! Aren't those supposed to be bad for you?

Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:36 pm

How much of the C E Ferulic serum do I apply each morning after the toner? Should I target specific spots?

Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:20 am

I have been using the Obagi C system for 2 months now, and have no flaking or peeling, and very little redness. I do think my skin looks better, but am concerned that I have no peeling or flaking as it seems everyone else that uses Obagi does.

Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:16 am

Hi Raspus,

I think most people who experience the redness and peeling are on the Obagi NuDerm system rather than the Obagi C system. I am using NuDerm but my derm suggested that I add the Vit C serum from the C system. When she did, she mentioned that that system was less aggressive and that it might be a possibility for maintenance but would not achieve the results I wanted on its own. She also suggested that it might give me a bit of relief from some of the harshness of NuDerm since it is an oil.

I don't think you need to worry that it is not doing what is it supposed - and be happy you don't have to deal with the ugly side effects of NuDerm to achieve your goals Smile

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:39 pm

Thank you Nutree. That's explains it. I should, probably have tried the NuDerm system first. I will order that, and save the C system for maintenance. Figures, I'd order the wrong stuff. Sad

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:50 am

No worries Raspus. And actually you may not have bought the wrong thing - it all just depends on your skin. NuDerm is very aggressive so if I didn't have to, I would have opted for something milder. That said, I'm very happy with the results so...

Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:06 am

Hi Nutree,

I am happy with the way my skin is looking, but I'm not sure the age spots are going to disappear completely, so I will use what I have left of the C, and then order the Nuderm if I still have spots. I really appreciate your feedback. I now have answers to my questions. Have a wonderful holiday.

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