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Mon Dec 02, 2013 3:40 pm  |
Why do you suppose that, for the most part, the medical community has been so dismissive toward facial exercises--given the plethora of anecdotal evidence?
Why hasn't there been a greater effort to scientifically investigate the claims & many success stories?
Do you suppose that the lack of financial incentive is one reason? |
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Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:44 pm |
In what way is the medical community "dismissive" of facial exercise?
Ex: I worked for a plastic surgeon who recommended facial exercise to "round out" the effect of his work once everything was healed. If a client was concerned about an area not being "even" or feeling "stiff" he would recommend massage and exercises. No particular program he recommended (this was in 2004), just some basic isometric/isotonic exercises and massage with oil. Too bad I didnt know about all the various programs then. |
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Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:27 pm |
VeronicaM except for the few like fawnie mentioned, there are a bunch like those on RealSelf.com who'd rather not entertain the idea because IMO they are afraid they would lose customers.
I do not think they NEED to do the research. Unless they slept right through medical school, they have to know that face exercises DO work, but they would never admit it or volunteer to do any testing to prove what they already know, because the ignorance they propagate keeps their customers returning to them because they believe there is no alternative to what they have to offer.
I talked about this very topic in this thread. |
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Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:25 am |
Neurologists, neurosurgeons and kinesiologists *do* know of facial exercise and recommend it along with other modalities for Bell's palsy, TMJ and other conditions.
I found this statement odd however:
"The facial muscles have few, if any, muscle spindles.12,14,15 Thus, little information about muscle length and action is available to the individual."
Physical Therapy for Facial Paralysis: A Tailored Treatment Approach
Jennifer S Brach and Jessie M VanSwearingen
http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/79/4/397.long
I think Deb Crowley, for one, has worked with PT extensively and could inform those authors! 
Carolyn Cleaves has consulted with doctors in researching her own program, so its not like doctors dont know about the benefits of facial exercise, or else they have some serious misconceptions about it. The proof's in the pudding! Id rather do the work myself than recover from the surgery someone else has done. |
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Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:33 am |
| fawnie wrote: |
Neurologists, neurosurgeons and kinesiologists *do* know of facial exercise and recommend it along with other modalities for Bell's palsy, TMJ and other conditions.
I found this statement odd however:
"The facial muscles have few, if any, muscle spindles.12,14,15 Thus, little information about muscle length and action is available to the individual."
Physical Therapy for Facial Paralysis: A Tailored Treatment Approach
Jennifer S Brach and Jessie M VanSwearingen
http://ptjournal.apta.org/content/79/4/397.long
I think Deb Crowley, for one, has worked with PT extensively and could inform those authors!
Carolyn Cleaves has consulted with doctors in researching her own program, so its not like doctors dont know about the benefits of facial exercise, or else they have some serious misconceptions about it. The proof's in the pudding! Id rather do the work myself than recover from the surgery someone else has done. |
Oh I don't doubt they all would agree with the idea of face exercises for the purposes you list: physical therapy and anything outside of aesthetics.
But what I think VeronicaM was asking about is the reluctance of the medical community (not all of it as we have established) to promote and give credit to face exercises with regard to anti-aging toning and lifting of sag. You can't tell me the medical personnel at the links below really believe that face exercises are useless in facial muscle toning and lifting. No one who knows facial anatomy can possibly be this ignorant. This IMO is just a deliberate effort to mislead (The third link is actually by doctors discrediting what doctors that you fawnie worked with said to be the case):
Examples:
http://www.realself.com/question/facial-exercise-studies
http://www.realself.com/question/facial-excercises-reduce-wrinkles
http://www.realself.com/question/strengthening-facial-muscles-pre-op-help-improve-facial-plastic-surgery-results
Like I said, there are a handful honest and open doctors (like those on the Flex Effect Research Page or those who work with Carolyn), but on the other side you have the 100% naysayers who only tell the negative side that could happen with face exercises and in the same breath inform you that they have the solution you need.  |
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Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:55 am |
| Quote: |
| The Medical Community's Disregard for Facial Exercise |
 
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We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:55 pm |
| Quote: |
| All elastic fibers, whether they are in your skin or in your clothing, have a finite number of stretches in their life and after which they stop contracting again. |
Comparing human living tissue to dead matter |
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We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:19 pm |
It's a mystery to me Veronica. Estheticians and electrologists and the like organize themselves into professional groups where they set standards for protocol, training, etc. - this helps them gain respect and acceptance, which furthers the amount of business they generate for themselves.
I am not sure why the proponents of facial exercise don't do the same…it would seem to promote them more as professionals than product sellers.
The membership dues could go to support research. This would seem to bring facial exercise out of the "infomercial" realm and more into the professional realm.
BFG |
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Not Affiliated with any products or gadgets, encourage other posters here to state their affiliations in their signature line |
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Sun Dec 08, 2013 6:34 pm |
| VeronicaM wrote: |
Why do you suppose that, for the most part, the medical community has been so dismissive toward facial exercises--given the plethora of anecdotal evidence?
Why hasn't there been a greater effort to scientifically investigate the claims & many success stories?
Do you suppose that the lack of financial incentive is one reason? |
We had a long discussion about facial exercise a few years back which involved a plastic surgeon (with his own skin care line no less) named Dr. Shultz (if memory serves). He was adamently opposed to facial exercise and seemed to feel that facial exercise would cause irreparable damage. He was protecting his 'turf'. Who can argue with the long-term results of an Eva Frasier or Deb Crowley's very young looking eyes.
I would say the reason there has not been a greater effort to scientifically investigate the claims & many success stories is due to lack of research funding and also an inability for the cohort of facial exercises to band together to this end. It still comes off like a cottage industry. |
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Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:02 pm |
Contrary to popular opinion, I am kinda glad that the big shots are not interested in doing research and if I were a founder of a face exercise program, I would not be interested in proving what I already know. What for? It isn't like the founders are hurting for money. You don't see them investing oodles of money on marketing because the results speak for themselves and their clients' experiences and word of mouth is all they need to stay in business.
As things are now, to me the world of face exercises is like that mom & pop store round the corner where everybody knows your name and is always glad you came. I love the attention clients get and how programs can be personalized according to needs. Sometimes when big industries catch on and try to get a piece of the pie, some of the quality of service customers got goes out the window and some small businesses get pushed out. I would hate that. I sort of like that there is diversity in the anti-aging industry and that face exercises are only part of the solutions out there. It is like a secret only a select few know about or believe in and to me that makes face exercises special. (Kinda like how people might not want everyone to know who did their surgery, or makes their clothes because it makes them unique.)
I imagine there was a time when cosmetic surgery was not as widespread as it is today, so nips and tucks were not so obvious and people had to wonder if gorgeous people were just born that way or had something done. Now with everyone doing it and frozen faces becoming the norm, it has lost its novelty and is so blah! And with so many people getting bad jobs done, the cool thing now is not to look like a freak after getting work done. To look as if no work was done aka "natural".
Enter the face exercise bunch and we do get natural looking results. We don't have to lie when asked if we had any surgery like a lot of celebs do. We can honestly say no...even in cases like mine where I look as if my eyes got a bleph, I can honestly say it is all due to exercise. Or I can just stop at saying I have never had any work done and not give away my secret. It doesn't matter if people don't believe me because I am #charliesheen WINNING! I kinda love that how we face exercisers have something not many have or care to have. So for me, personally, I don't understand the need for research to be done. Face exercise founders continue to get clients and their clients continue to be pleased with their results. We who BELIEVE don't need tests. Doctors who are busy offering surgical options don't need the tests. Doctors who offer both options don't need the tests.
It seems to me those who want tests are those worried that they might be missing out.  But why should they have it easy?  We had to gamble so just bloody grow a pair and jump like we did and hope you land safely; or just don't worry your poor heads about unproven things and go to the methods that have already been proven scientifically.
In other words, folks who already have something working for them are not interested in doing tests. Why should they? It is like a bipartisan movement with two extremes. Folks pick a side and go with it. They don't concern themselves with trying to verify if what the other party believes is worth it, or in trying to sway those in the other party to believe in their values. They simply put them out there and hope they sound good enough to win them votes. Only there is no winner to be crowned as there is not contest. The variety of options makes life interesting IMO.
So yeah, testing be damned. Live and let live I say! |
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Mon Dec 09, 2013 5:33 am |
| Nonie aka AD wrote: |
Contrary to popular opinion, I am kinda glad that the big shots are not interested in doing research and if I were a founder of a face exercise program, I would not be interested in proving what I already know. What for? It isn't like the founders are hurting for money. You don't see them investing oodles of money on marketing because the results speak for themselves and their clients' experiences and word of mouth is all they need to stay in business.
As things are now, to me the world of face exercises is like that mom & pop store round the corner where everybody knows your name and is always glad you came. I love the attention clients get and how programs can be personalized according to needs. Sometimes when big industries catch on and try to get a piece of the pie, some of the quality of service customers got goes out the window and some small businesses get pushed out. I would hate that. I sort of like that there is diversity in the anti-aging industry and that face exercises are only part of the solutions out there. It is like a secret only a select few know about or believe in and to me that makes face exercises special. (Kinda like how people might not want everyone to know who did their surgery, or makes their clothes because it makes them unique.)
I imagine there was a time when cosmetic surgery was not as widespread as it is today, so nips and tucks were not so obvious and people had to wonder if gorgeous people were just born that way or had something done. Now with everyone doing it and frozen faces becoming the norm, it has lost its novelty and is so blah! And with so many people getting bad jobs done, the cool thing now is not to look like a freak after getting work done. To look as if no work was done aka "natural".
Enter the face exercise bunch and we do get natural looking results. We don't have to lie when asked if we had any surgery like a lot of celebs do. We can honestly say no...even in cases like mine where I look as if my eyes got a bleph, I can honestly say it is all due to exercise. Or I can just stop at saying I have never had any work done and not give away my secret. It doesn't matter if people don't believe me because I am #charliesheen WINNING! I kinda love that how we face exercisers have something not many have or care to have. So for me, personally, I don't understand the need for research to be done. Face exercise founders continue to get clients and their clients continue to be pleased with their results. We who BELIEVE don't need tests. Doctors who are busy offering surgical options don't need the tests. Doctors who offer both options don't need the tests.
It seems to me those who want tests are those worried that they might be missing out. But why should they have it easy? We had to gamble so just bloody grow a pair and jump like we did and hope you land safely; or just don't worry your poor heads about unproven things and go to the methods that have already been proven scientifically.
In other words, folks who already have something working for them are not interested in doing tests. Why should they? It is like a bipartisan movement with two extremes. Folks pick a side and go with it. They don't concern themselves with trying to verify if what the other party believes is worth it, or in trying to sway those in the other party to believe in their values. They simply put them out there and hope they sound good enough to win them votes. Only there is no winner to be crowned as there is not contest. The variety of options makes life interesting IMO.
So yeah, testing be damned. Live and let live I say! |
Well said, Nonie! Just occasionally I mention I do facial exercises and then people want me to show them some examples - I give them one, briefly, and then encourage them to do research themselves if they are really interested. I am glad it is not big business and people have to bother to search it out. |
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Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:00 am |
| VeronicaM wrote: |
Why do you suppose that, for the most part, the medical community has been so dismissive toward facial exercises--given the plethora of anecdotal evidence?
Why hasn't there been a greater effort to scientifically investigate the claims & many success stories?
Do you suppose that the lack of financial incentive is one reason? |
Well, yes. Surgery and procedures are what brings in money, and it's what doctors are trained to do. On a practical level, there isn't much money in telling people to go home and do facial exercises to lift their face. |
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