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Wed May 01, 2013 11:18 pm  |
I searched to see if anyone had mentioned this yet but didn't see anything. If it has, please excuse this post.
So, I guess Owndoc is releasing a dermapen.needling unit of their own?? Which is sort of funny considering their position on them in the past. Still, I'm interested... it's not going to be released until July, but I'm really anxious to see what others think about it...
http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?DermaJet-pid230.html
This is what they say about it:
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The DermaJet's mechanical technology closely implements Vaughter Wellness' specifications for a powerful punch with extremely short duration - preventing skin microtearing seen with conventional derma"pens" made in China, which are so feeble that they hardly penetrate the skin (leading to bad results), and have the needles remain 50% of the time inside the skin (leading to skin tearing when the device is moved). The needles of the DermaJet only remain 0.3 to 1.5% of the time inside the skin. This makes the process skin-safe and minimally painful.
Needle length adjustment 0.2, 0.5, 1, 1.5 and 2 mm. Repetition rate 3 to 15 punches/second. Standard needle cartridge with 12 needles. Min. 180 pricks/minute, max. 10800 pricks/minute. Extra needle cartridges with 1, 5 or 12 needles are separately available. |
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Wed May 01, 2013 11:25 pm |
Sarah Vaughter is out there for money.
But the site has some far better insights into wellness than most mainstream websites.
Unfortunately she doesnt ship to my country,so i have to wait for others to try it firstly.
Or maybe i can find a way to directly buy it from turkey,since its neighbour to my country(greece) and maybe i can get it cheaper.
Btw lol @ '' closely implements Vaughter Wellness' specifications ''. |
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We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time. |
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Wed May 01, 2013 11:41 pm |
Sarah says that her device is different from Dermapen and others in that it has a "super-short duty cycle".
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| “Duty cycle” means in this case how many percent of the time the needle is down. With a dermapen, the needles are more or less fully down 25% of the time, more or less fully up 25% of the time, and somewhere in between 50% of the time. Approx. 10% of the latter 50%, the needles are scratching over your skin, while you move the dermapen. And while the needles are down (approx. 25% of the time), you are also moving the device, causing skin tears because a dermapen’s needles always point straight down. By design, its needles can’t “slide out” of the skin. So what you do is causing small horizontal tears in the skin, even when you move it quite slowly and that is totally inevitable, no matter what setting you use. It would be theoretically avoidable, if the dermapen would have a different duty cycle but that would require a strong spring combined with an extremely strong electromagnet. That way, the needles would be down into the skin only 5% of the time or less, and that would be sufficient to avoid microtearing. The very strong electromagnet would be able to quickly pull the needles up, yielding a spike-patterns instead of oscillating in a sinoid pattern. The strong spring would push the needles very quickly down. That combo would be able to have the short duty-cycle required to avoid microtearing. However, such a device would be much more expensive to produce and bulkier and heavier than the currently available dermapens that use cheap, simple technology. We have done a dermapen test and those devices suffer from the micro-tearing issue, because their technology is lacking. Their needle’s down-cycle lasts too long, causing skin micro-tearing. |
http://owndoc.com/dermarolling/derma-pen-review/ |
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Thu May 02, 2013 8:22 am |
thoughts about this off the top of my head -
if we we are concerned about "downtime" (meaning punches in the skin)...we can just auto stamp that place longer.
I see her point about "dragging a stamping device" across the skin versus rolling a wheel device....but we can control this two ways - use a gel that helps it slide or change the motion that we hold the device. Personally, I push a roller across my skin, but I hold the pen up and down - different hand movements.
Anybody else who has used both and wishes to comment? curious to see what others say here.
BFG |
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Thu May 02, 2013 8:53 am |
| ellaelise wrote: |
I searched to see if anyone had mentioned this yet but didn't see anything. If it has, please excuse this post.
So, I guess Owndoc is releasing a dermapen.needling unit of their own?? Which is sort of funny considering their position on them in the past. Still, I'm interested... it's not going to be released until July, but I'm really anxious to see what others think about it...
http://shop.owndoc.com/product-info.php?DermaJet-pid230.html
This is what they say about it:
| Quote: |
The DermaJet's mechanical technology closely implements Vaughter Wellness' specifications for a powerful punch with extremely short duration - preventing skin microtearing seen with conventional derma"pens" made in China, which are so feeble that they hardly penetrate the skin (leading to bad results), and have the needles remain 50% of the time inside the skin (leading to skin tearing when the device is moved). The needles of the DermaJet only remain 0.3 to 1.5% of the time inside the skin. This makes the process skin-safe and minimally painful.
Needle length adjustment 0.2, 0.5, 1, 1.5 and 2 mm. Repetition rate 3 to 15 punches/second. Standard needle cartridge with 12 needles. Min. 180 pricks/minute, max. 10800 pricks/minute. Extra needle cartridges with 1, 5 or 12 needles are separately available. |
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Two things I have issues with in this quote. The first is her math is wrong with the needle pricks per minute. If you take the slowest speed of 3 punches a second. Multiple it by 60 seconds in a minute. Then multiple that by the 12 needles on the cartridge you get 2160. Not 180.
3x60x12=2160
The second is I have no problem with the needles penetrating my skin. I draw blood with my My-m just fine. So at least in my use I don't see this as a problem.
The micro tearing I still have some concerns about but I do think you can lessen your chances of that happening by technique and product usage.
I am always looking out for improvements to skin care gadgets and will be interested if someone uses both the Dermapen/my-m and the derma jet and what their opinion is. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu May 02, 2013 9:39 am |
The thing I have a problem with is that she tested only one device, and from the description it was NOT the My-M -
| owndoc site wrote: |
This is not the Dermapen® brand (because we found no way on their site to purchase one) but a similar device. This device looks very similar, is based on the same principle and uses similar components. This device claims to needle to a maximum depth of 1 mm, but we found it nearly impossible to penetrate the skin. |
If the tested device could only penetrate to 1mm then it doesn't really seem like a fair comparison to either the Dermpen or the My-M devices. I'm not suggesting that OwnDoc should have tested a bunch of devices before developing theirs, but I think they should have tested something more comparable to the real Dermapen. Regardless, it will be interesting to hear how people like the Dermajet. |
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Thu May 02, 2013 12:16 pm |
The Dermapen people say the roller creates more tearing in the skin and Sarah Vaughter says it's the other way around (that the pen creates more tearing than rolling). Both can't be right, right? LOL
http://dermapen.com/derma-roller/
I just went back to read her website again and something else she said doesn't sit well with me. She claims her company can resell any equipment it wants and if she wanted to, she could sell the Dermapen.
I am not sure that's true. From what I can tell, Dermapen is only offering it's product through the wholesale market - to dermatology professionals and I understand their reasons for doing so. Sarah Vaugher's website is a retail website, not a wholesale website, so it seems like she may be dishonest there? Somebody check me on this if I am wrong.
BFG |
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Thu May 02, 2013 1:43 pm |
According to the PDF on owndoc site the dermajet
will come with 5 different needle length adapters.(.02 .05 1.0 1.5 2.0) It looks like it is just a plastic piece that the height varies depending on what length needle you want. So each time you want to change needle lengths during a treatment you will have to change out this plastic piece. That doesn't seem very convenient.
She says she is going to offer needle heads with 1, 5, or 12 needles to a head. That might be good for some people for a small scar. For me the 12 needle head works well so I don't see that as something I would use.
It is going to have a European plug. ( 230V/50Hz)
So people in the US will need a converter and power adapter. I would check with owndoc and make sure it would work in the US before ordering.
She says she hopes to have it in stock by June 15.
ETA: BFG- I don't think that Dermapen would allow her to sell their product to the general public.
http://owndoc.com/pdf/DermaJet-Manual.pdf |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Thu May 02, 2013 10:15 pm |
| panoslydios wrote: |
Btw lol @ '' closely implements Vaughter Wellness' specifications ''. |
That was quite amusing, especially since she is a nutritionist and I haven't seen any needling clinical studies published by her. But I'm sure some people will be impressed, lol. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri May 03, 2013 8:56 am |
Thanks for checking my logic, it was late when I wrote that post.
Her claim that she would be selling Dermapen if she believed in it, sounded off to me. I don't think she can sell them even if she wanted to.
My guess is that she saw the future of automated devices eating into her roller business, jumped out in front by posting a negative review of a My-M type device, presentd her own information contrary to Dermapen, then wow - now introduces her own device.
This is marketing.
BFG |
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Fri May 03, 2013 8:58 am |
| Hopefully it will be a good product. Interesting to have a dermapen in single needle format. Sounds like that would be very useful for scars. |
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Tue May 07, 2013 8:47 pm |
| Some of this was brought up in the Dermapen thread, and someone (I forget who, forgive me) made the really great point that the Dermapen could potentially cannibalize their other products if it is far superior to dermarollers. I guess we'll see how people react to the DermaJet. |
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Wed May 08, 2013 5:40 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
My guess is that she saw the future of automated devices eating into her roller business, jumped out in front by posting a negative review of a My-M type device, presentd her own information contrary to Dermapen, then wow - now introduces her own device.
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Totally agree. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Wed May 08, 2013 6:20 pm |
Hi ella, you are forgiven, it was me 
Always the bad news lady of the forum here 
I have been on the inside wall of the corporate world for too long, need to retire - I have seen it all!
BFg |
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Wed May 08, 2013 6:25 pm |
I guess I had too much wine with dinner, but I just had a funny thought.
Owndoc sells dermastamps....soooo, Owndoc is ok with stamps that you punch into your skin, but stamps that move up and down? no...they are bad! LOL
That just strikes me as hysterical tonight. |
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Wed May 08, 2013 9:46 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
I guess I had too much wine with dinner, but I just had a funny thought.
Owndoc sells dermastamps....soooo, Owndoc is ok with stamps that you punch into your skin, but stamps that move up and down? no...they are bad! LOL
That just strikes me as hysterical tonight. |
it's not that the punching up n down is bad but the movement of the device along the skin surface while it punches, i think.... |
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Thu May 09, 2013 7:03 am |
Proponents of rollers as well as pens all warn against "dragging" and "tearing" across the skin.
This is something we can control with any device, all of them. It has to do with how you move it.
BFG |
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IngiiJay
New Member
 
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 7
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Mon May 20, 2013 10:37 pm |
| I for one have always been a bit concerned ever since reading her articles about the dermapens out there, about tearing of the skin. It makes sense to me, that dragging a slower pen that makes stamp like motions will inevitably tear across the skin as you move the pen. The only way I would use a knock off dermapen would be by lifting it up and placing it into a new position. Is that what you dermapen guys are doing? That said, I'm very excited about the dermajet.From what I've read it stamps very fast so that this microtearing is not an issue. ALSO, I checked out the company dermajet and they are actually selling their pens for $990 US. The price Owndoc is offering is very very reasonable at $249. I'm excited!! |
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IngiiJay ) |
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Tue May 21, 2013 7:59 am |
With the shorter needle setting, it is possible to somewhat glide the pen across the skin, even easier with a topical applied.
With the deeper needle setting, it is more of a stamping motion, not a gliding motion.
If someone claims to be gliding the pen across the skin at the deeper needle settings, I am not sure how they could avoid the skin tearing effect.??
BFG |
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Tue May 21, 2013 8:03 am |
| IngiiJay wrote: |
| I for one have always been a bit concerned ever since reading her articles about the dermapens out there, about tearing of the skin. It makes sense to me, that dragging a slower pen that makes stamp like motions will inevitably tear across the skin as you move the pen. The only way I would use a knock off dermapen would be by lifting it up and placing it into a new position. Is that what you dermapen guys are doing? That said, I'm very excited about the dermajet.From what I've read it stamps very fast so that this microtearing is not an issue. ALSO, I checked out the company dermajet and they are actually selling their pens for $990 US. The price Owndoc is offering is very very reasonable at $249. I'm excited!! |
IngiiJay- I think you misinterpreted the Owndoc article. She is saying the Dermapen stamps too quickly and because of that as you move it along your face the needles are always in the skin. Her knockoff product is going to stamp slower not faster. I don't have this problem with the My-m because I adjust my technique. Owndoc knock off is also double the price of the My-m.
I do want to add that the "Dermapen" that owndoc testing was a knockoff also. So I don't think she ever bought a real one to do her comparison. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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IngiiJay
New Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 7
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Tue May 21, 2013 8:22 am |
| I do always wonder about the original dermapen. If the other versions are just copies of it, how likely is it that the actual dermapen itself doesn't create micro tears? Also, I was thinking she meant that the dermapens spend about 50% of the duty cycle in the actual skin therefore being very likely that they would still be in the skin when moving it about. I get the point about the shorter needles having better glide possibilities. I thought she was saying that the dermajet moved with a faster duty cycle so less likelihood of the tears. I may have to go back and take a look at her article! |
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IngiiJay ) |
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IngiiJay
New Member
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Posts: 7
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Tue May 21, 2013 8:24 am |
| Hang on! The dermajet stamps slower!!? oh! |
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IngiiJay ) |
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Tue May 21, 2013 10:50 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
If someone claims to be gliding the pen across the skin at the deeper needle settings, I am not sure how they could avoid the skin tearing effect.??
BFG |
I thought that's what you all were doing and was surprised how no tearing... |
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Tue May 21, 2013 3:29 pm |
I was thinking the needles go up and down so fast, much faster than your "drag" motion across the skin. So you don't get tearing because the needles move so fast.
I have no idea if I am right, but that is how I thought about it. And the guard on the needles prevent you from gliding across the face at an angle, they have to be straight up and down. |
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Esthetician working at a Med-spa. Love the Clarisonic! |
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Tue May 21, 2013 4:35 pm |
When I did my first treatment I did more of a gliding motion at first on slower speeds. I now do more of a stamping motion almost exclusively. I takes more time but it does a better job for me.
On a different note, why is microtearing so bad in this instance. It is not like when you use a scrub on your face with beads or whatnot. For dermarolling you want to injure the skin. You don't want it fully intact. Now I'm not talking about ripping your face to shreds. A microtear should be barely if at all visible. It will cause inflammation but you want inflammation in this case on a short term basis. Thoughts? |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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