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Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:51 pm  |
This recent article, someone shared with me, just reinforces our ongoing need for using common-sense caution when relying on online reviews. e.g.. restaurants, food, travel etc. It, further, explores ways one state is trying to delete phony online reviews.
Thought I'd pass it along.
September 23, 2013
Associated Press
ALBANY, N.Y. — A perfect hotel? An amazing restaurant? Teeth whitener that leads to romance?
Such things may only truly exist in online reviews, and New York's attorney general says many of them are fakes, just as more consumers searching for guidance are starting to bite.
New York State Attorney General Eric Schneiderman is trying to dismantle what he calls a system of creating false online reviews for products and services. On Monday he announced that he has settled cases with 19 companies that included $350,000 in penalties.
The fake plaudits are sometimes called "astroturfing," a reference to the synthetic grass used on sports fields.
"Consumers rely on reviews from their peers to make daily purchasing decisions on anything from food and clothing to recreation and sightseeing," Schneiderman said. "This investigation into large-scale, intentional deceit across the Internet tells us that we should approach online reviews with caution."
He said that by 2014, one researcher estimates 10 percent to 15 percent of social media reviews will be fake.
The rise in the phony review business comes as more people trust such commentaries, even though they are often posted anonymously. Schneiderman said Harvard Business School found that increasing a restaurant's review score by one star on Yelp.com could boost business up to 8 percent. Cornell researchers found an extra star on Travelocity or TripAdvisor could translate into an 11 percent increase in a room rate.
In April, the Nielsen consumer survey company found online reviews were the second most trusted form of advertising after word-of-mouth by family and friends. The survey found 70 percent of customers worldwide trust online reviews, rising 15 percent in four years.
But Schneiderman found many of the reviews were written by people who not only never experienced the product or service, but never lived in the United States. Workers in the Philippines, Bangladesh and Eastern Europe passed judgments on goods and services for $1 to $10 per review, Schneiderman said.
Some fraudulent writers also defended their fake reviews on websites challenging them.
One undercover agent was able to hire a company to create a false, but glowing impression of a fictitious company.
Attorney general staffers posed as owners of a Brooklyn yogurt shop and called a company that offered to write fake reviews and post them on websites including Yelp.com, Google Local and Citysearch.com. Such companies can set up hundreds of false online profiles of consumers and use software that allowed the companies to hide their origin, investigators said. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:01 pm |
| Wow. I think this article is right on the money. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:31 pm |
Don't be surprised by the phony BAD reviews as well. There are people who make it their life's mission to hurt people as deeply as they possibly can...
This is done within so many industries that function online it's unbelievable. Always there is a financial motive... if the bad review directs you to the savior... look out!
Check out this ordeal on TripAdvisor...http://tripadvisorwatch.wordpress.com/trip-advisor-fake-reviews/
Also, when you're looking for hotel reservations and the websites show them booked. Give them a jingle, apparently in some areas these giant companies strong arm small inns to keep paying huge referral fees. If the Inn quits the plan, the companies keep them on their site, but BOOKED! So they lose a ton of business.
The good news... Those that hide behind an avatar and fake stories will soon get theirs... A fake good review could cause a person to engage in something dangerous... perhaps go to a really terrible eye surgeon for laser surgery... or a fake bad review could cost someone their livelihood. The faker should have to make amends... The ability for tracking down the faker... So easy now a days... just ask our gov't. http://www.forbes.com/sites/investopedia/2013/01/25/can-you-be-sued-if-you-give-a-bad-review-on-yelp/ |
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Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:41 am |
Also don't be surprised when people we/you are convinced are trolls or fakes or shills turn out to be people essentially just like us...complex people with their own unfortunate set of biases and prejudices, and/or who are simply capable of making (sometimes dumb) mistakes.
Although since most of us won't allow for that (we're always right about trolls and shills, after all, aren't we, because who can possibly look at the situation or make decisions differently from us?), this fact typically gets overlooked. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:35 am |
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
Don't be surprised by the phony BAD reviews as well. There are people who make it their life's mission to hurt people as deeply as they possibly can...
This is done within so many industries that function online it's unbelievable. Always there is a financial motive... if the bad review directs you to the savior... look out!
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Claudia, I totally agree with this as well. As a digital marketer, I have seen a ton of this on some of my past clients...the same person will post horrid reviews on every product they offered, over and over again. Web sites and social media have become ways to vet frustrations. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:43 am |
| Yubs wrote: |
Also don't be surprised when people we/you are convinced are trolls or fakes or shills turn out to be people essentially just like us...complex people with their own unfortunate set of biases and prejudices, and/or who are simply capable of making (sometimes dumb) mistakes.
Although since most of us won't allow for that (we're always right about trolls and shills, after all, aren't we, because who can possibly look at the situation or make decisions differently from us?), this fact typically gets overlooked. |
Yubs, I think the article was talking about sites where reviews are placed by a variety of people like Amazon. It is very common to see that with book releases by new authors, new restaurants, etc.
But thanks for the reminder that it can happen here as well, though they are usually pretty obvious as brand new posters sharing how great a product is and where to buy it. We just had one of those selling fake Clarisonics a couple of weeks ago.
ETA: I noticed that Amazon has a new feature where reviews are noted with "verified by amazon" showing that the person had actually bought the product from Amazon prior to reviewing it. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:35 am |
| bethany wrote: |
Yubs, I think the article was talking about sites where reviews are placed by a variety of people like Amazon. It is very common to see that with book releases by new authors, new restaurants, etc.
But thanks for the reminder that it can happen here as well, though they are usually pretty obvious as brand new posters sharing how great a product is and where to buy it. We just had one of those selling fake Clarisonics a couple of weeks ago.
ETA: I noticed that Amazon has a new feature where reviews are noted with "verified by amazon" showing that the person had actually bought the product from Amazon prior to reviewing it. |
Actually, that feature on Amazon has been around for quite a while. I buy tons of stuff on Amazon (such as my unfortunate My-m unit  ), and when in doubt of my purchase, I always check for Amazon verified as well as the number of reviews of the poster. If the poster only has a few 5 star reviews, even if the product categories are varied, I pretty much dismiss the feedback from those people, too. Also, FWIW, I usually check one-star reviews first.
Speaking of Clarisonic, I did not know those Clarisonics here on EDS were fake! I reported the spam in my inbox because I hate spam but didn't know they were fake. Thanks for that tidbit.
I also almost bought a Clarisonic on Amazon today but decided against it because sometimes the third-party sellers are not reliable and I read some bad reviews. Instead I decided to buy straight from Clarisonic despite the tax because I did not realize until just now that EDS sold the Clarisonic Plus. 
As far as my comments...I understood what the article was about. But because things have been a bit...well, let's say "pointed"...around here lately, just making sure we're all on the same page.  |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:45 am |
| Yubs wrote: |
| As far as my comments...I understood what the article was about. But because things have been a bit...well, let's say "pointed"...around here lately, just making sure we're all on the same page. |
At some point we all have to move on, and not associate everything with past events. But the more frequently the past comes up, the less likely it is that we move on. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:46 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| At some point we all have to move on, and not associate everything with past events. But the more frequently the past comes up, the less likely it is that we move on. |
Absolutely agreed. Can't happen soon enough. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:18 am |
| Yubs wrote: |
Also don't be surprised when people we/you are convinced are trolls or fakes or shills turn out to be people essentially just like us...complex people with their own unfortunate set of biases and prejudices, and/or who are simply capable of making (sometimes dumb) mistakes.
Although since most of us won't allow for that (we're always right about trolls and shills, after all, aren't we, because who can possibly look at the situation or make decisions differently from us?), this fact typically gets overlooked. |
My take on this is the complete opposite. I realize there are a lot of fake reviews on the Internet. That is why I think it is even more important for members on EDS to be as fair and unbiased as they can be.
You can get a better sense of a person because of posting history on EDS then you can on other websites. So I tend to believe members here a lot more then I would on XYZ website especially if they are a long term member. If that long term member isn't truthful I feel it really does hurt the integrity of the whole site. I am selective on my trust level on EDS. For example I certainly don't get sucked into raves when the member has only a few post but I do put extra weight into what members say about a product here then I would in general when looking at reviews on the web. |
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Everything has beauty but not everyone sees it |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:00 am |
I do put extra weight into what members say about a product here then I would in general when looking at reviews on the web.
Which makes it all the more disasteful when you uncover information you wished you didn't know.
Anyway, when it comes to online reviews (anywhere), I usually disregard the outliers - the ones who only cheerlead and the ones who only have negative comments.
It's the reviewers who provide both Pros and Cons that I tend to focus on....and if they write from a consumer advocacy position rather than a "let's make this all personal, it's about you versus me" position.
BFG |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:03 pm |
As previous posters said, forums can be a great source of information.
One suggestion is to use Google's "Discussion Search" feature, which searches only forums. In fact, that's how I found EDS.
For example, see this search on Skinceuticals CE Ferulic serum:
https://www.google.com/#psj=1&q=ce+ferulic&tbm=dsc
From there, I found several forums where people are talking about the product. I then look at the member's join date, post count, other posts, and reputation (some forums have reputation systems).
Alas, not every forum on the Web is included. Nonetheless, it seems like this feature is steadily growing. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:10 pm |
Wonderful, thanks for that..... I did not know about that Google feature.
BFG |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:32 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
Wonderful, thanks for that..... I did not know about that Google feature.
BFG |
It's a relatively new feature and not as well-known.
At any rate, it can be a great source of "insider, unpublished" information--on a variety of subjects.
For some reason, the link is not readily available. But you can just use this link:
https://www.google.com/#psj=1&q=google+discussion+search&tbm=dsc
Erase "google discussion search" from the box, and replace it with whatever you want to search. Press "Enter" afterward.
PM me if you have any other questions. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:53 pm |
This was the blog I read a while back that had alerted me to just how awful this fake reviews and such can be...
http://playazone.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/expedia-bad-for-the-traveler-bad-for-the-hotel/
I was talking with my mom about this thread, and she said just the other day she was looking at a vitamin/supplier site. They indicated that a certain brand/company was completely out of product. She thought that was unusual and went to the brand/company website... and low and behold they have it to sell. IMO, that's intentionally damaging to the companies sales.
I think all the cross referencing is a great idea. Just knowing this sort of thing is done will heighten awareness... |
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Claudia of FlexEffect... 43, fair skin, occasional breakout, Using ECO FROG (my own=disclaimer), and TrueScience (I also sell this)... Happy with that...Come visit on FB! |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:09 pm |
| Congratulations on your new skin care line Claudia! ECO FROG looks super! |
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✪ My go-to products: MyFawnie.BigCartel.com ✪ |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:13 pm |
| ClaudiaFE wrote: |
This was the blog I read a while back that had alerted me to just how awful this fake reviews and such can be...
http://playazone.wordpress.com/2012/12/04/expedia-bad-for-the-traveler-bad-for-the-hotel/
I was talking with my mom about this thread, and she said just the other day she was looking at a vitamin/supplier site. They indicated that a certain brand/company was completely out of product. She thought that was unusual and went to the brand/company website... and low and behold they have it to sell. IMO, that's intentionally damaging to the companies sales.
I think all the cross referencing is a great idea. Just knowing this sort of thing is done will heighten awareness... |
I'm not surprised by disingenuous reviews. I've long suspected it.
Another suggestion is to learn the science behind beauty products. Understanding that can help you better identify which products are likely to work--from looking at the ingredient list, taking the pH, etc. The Milady books are a good place to start. Since Milady books are expensive, you could try getting them from a public/college library near you. You may preview such materials on Google Books. |
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Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:28 pm |
Another thing to watch out for is suspicious video reviews on YouTube. Before trusting a video review, consider that person's other videos/overall reputation. Also, be wary if the review is "too glowing" and doesn't mention any of the product's drawbacks. Here's an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdzlPfifihI
I found it odd that this same person gave a glowing review of another stretch mark cream and that many of the comments in the first video were censored:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha_KmKWBmHU |
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Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:18 am |
We have a bad review issue with Yelp going on right now. We had to hire an attorney to help us get Yelp to remove a review that obviously a competitor had someone post. We knew by what was written that it was not a client because it mentioned a method and wording that we do not use EVER. But it dealt with an issue that only someone in the biz would know. A huge hassle and still ongoing! Most people/biz owners I know locally hate Yelp and they are getting a pretty negative review themselves these days.
But then we have several review pages with our clients voting us the best in Austin so that makes up for it!
Most people tell us that they only trust reviews from Angie's List. Happy to say we are in good standing there!
I review on Trip Advisor all the time. I rely on it as well, but I also pay close attention to the member status. |
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Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:18 am |
| AnnieR wrote: |
Most people tell us that they only trust reviews from Angie's List. |
Unfortunately, I suspect the reliability of those reviews may decline over time, which is sad because I have relied on them heavily myself.
Angie's List markets heavily to the companies that have been reviewed for a variety of related services, which means their revenue is not coming just from consumer subscriptions (unlike Consumer Reports who accepts zero money from companies in order to remain unbiased).
So let's say that a company (that is paying Angie's List a ton of money for marketing services) gets a negative review which must be approved by Angie's List prior to it being posted. I can see the company saying "I pay you a lot of money and you need to make this go away."
Do we really think that all negative reviews will really end up being posted? Doubtful. So the good reviews are great, but I doubt we will see the complete story over the long run.
(FYI that my comments above are NOT pertaining at all to Annie's company, which I am sure has and deserves only positive reviews!) |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:55 am |
For now, I really do put some credence when there are several reviews and you toss out the totally glowing ones, totally negative ones and pay closer attention to the ones that give you the pros and cons...
With the totally negative ones, you question their motivation to take the time out (as in a competitor)....
With the totally positive ones, you also question their motivation to take the time (they're receiving some form of compensation)
Not always, but usually...it's a safe bet...as I have learned.
BFG |
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Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:33 am |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
For now, I really do put some credence when there are several reviews and you toss out the totally glowing ones, totally negative ones and pay closer attention to the ones that give you the pros and cons...
With the totally negative ones, you question their motivation to take the time out (as in a competitor)....
With the totally positive ones, you also question their motivation to take the time (they're receiving some form of compensation)
Not always, but usually...it's a safe bet...as I have learned.
BFG |
Definitely great advice. Being objective is always key. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:50 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
... I can see the company saying "I pay you a lot of money and you need to make this go away." ...
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Just like the BBB membership fees. (Better Business Bureau)
| bethany wrote: |
... So the good reviews are great, but I doubt we will see the complete story over the long run...
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Yup..sometimes in the purchasing-game of it all, buyers can’t see all the angles. And consumers scramble for a vanishing and condemned objectivity.
I dislike so much that its seldom even a careful-consumer’s cakewalk. There's only so much time in a day. |
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Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:56 pm |
| AnnieR wrote: |
We have a bad review issue with Yelp going on right now. We had to hire an attorney to help us get Yelp to remove a review that obviously a competitor had someone post. We knew by what was written that it was not a client because it mentioned a method and wording that we do not use EVER. But it dealt with an issue that only someone in the biz would know. A huge hassle and still ongoing! Most people/biz owners I know locally hate Yelp and they are getting a pretty negative review themselves these days.
But then we have several review pages with our clients voting us the best in Austin so that makes up for it!
Most people tell us that they only trust reviews from Angie's List. Happy to say we are in good standing there!
I review on Trip Advisor all the time. I rely on it as well, but I also pay close attention to the member status. |
That's just horrible about your circumstances with Yelp, AnnieR!
I remember reading ClaudiaFE’s interesting link upthread about the dicey situation with Yelp reviews.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/investopedia/2013/01/25/can-you-be-sued-if-you-give-a-bad-review-on-yelp/
(A few memorable points that I noted while reading.)
...“Question of Truth
…These lawsuits are tricky since they present a conflict between freedom of Speech and a company’s online persona. Freedom of Speech, however, doesn’t extend to defamatory statements. Since defamation must be based on a false statement, in order for the writer to be held liable, lawyers advise writers of these reviews to stick to opinions and truths.
If you do not misrepresent yourself, or exaggerate your experience you should not be held liable..
The Bottom Line
Yelp encourages its users to be honest regarding their experiences but also does not take responsibility for what users say. Users are always cautioned to omit excessive exaggeration and should know not to lie on a review. Although First Amendment rights are important and must be upheld, deliberately sabotaging the viability of a business must also be discouraged. Outright lying is considered defamation and individuals who take part in these types of activities can and will be held liable. If users of Yelp are honest and truthful ,then a company should not be able to sue for defamation simply because it won’t match the definition of the action.”
--AnnieR, much success in getting it straightened out. |
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Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:42 pm |
OP,
Thanks again for this thread.
It raises several important points. |
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