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Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:25 pm  |
I may be the only one who find this disturbing, but I have for a while now been quite annoyed by one particular company's representative on this forum.
It seems to me that this person only appears when someone has a negative experience with the products, in order to stop the discussion by indicating that the products have been used incorrectly, or that you must have called the wrong company etc. The result often being that the member with negative results feels like an idiot, and maybe other members hesitat
to give their honest opinion in order to avoid being confronted by this person.
In addition I do also find it very unprofessional that this representative choses to post information that slanders the competition. I have never seen anything like that from any other skincare company that openly frequent this forum!
As I said, this is my opinion and not everybody might find this problematic. I do find this behaviour to be very unprofessional, and it is the main reason I chose not to try any of their products. |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:32 pm |
Hi Aurora, I think you are very brave to post your opinion like this, not least because some people here really rate this 'mystery company rep'. I was just wondering why you chose to leave their name annonymous? I think most regular users know who you are talking about....
And for those of you wondering whether I agree/disagree with Aurora, well.. I'm gonna keep quiet on this one. Contentious threads have a habit of getting locked.  |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 2:52 pm |
hi rzecka!
I'm aware most regular users will know who I'm talking about, that's why I chose not to use any names. I just figured that the chances for this thread NOT being locked was bigger if I kept it anonymous. |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:00 pm |
| Hi Aurora, I hear what u are saying on this, but do you mind if I sit on the fence with this one. Will send you a pm. |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:03 pm |
Fair point Aurora 
I really do hope that this thread doesn't get locked - afterall you are only voicing your opinion and as you rightly say other people might not find this company rep problematic... |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:28 pm |
I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to start some witch hunt, but I would like to have a discussion on this type of company representation on the forum!
I believe that if this type of representation should be allowed it will seriously influence the forum members products reviews and discussions! How can people be honest if they fear to be confronted? I have myself avoided to reply because I wouldn't like being confronted like that.
rzecka and cindi, I don't know why you're sitting on the fence, but if it's because you're afraid og confrontation, you've just proven my point  |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:34 pm |
| Aurora, Im actually using this companys products at the moment so I would feel a bit hypocritical passing any comment just now, but I do know exactly what you are on about. The person involved is fast to re-act to criticism, but I sent him and his company a private email asking for advice over 2 weeks ago, and I know it was read twice, cause I got email confirmation, but no one has been interested enough in me to reply. |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:41 pm |
Aurora, I do feel you have a valid point and as Cindi says, I know exactly what you mean. I just feel uncomfortable because although you want this to be a general discussion about this 'type of representation', the only way you could bring this up was to refer to that 'anonymous rep' and I think that fact makes it impossible to have a general discussion. Does that make sense? *off to sit back on my fence*  |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:37 pm |
Everyone has a right to their opinion and I certainly respect yours. It so happens that the discussion of the article was basically linked to other threads concerning certain ingredients. I made mention of this article and the first thing asked of me was to post it so I did. If I insulted anyone that was not my intention but again it shows certain ingredients and now the ftc discussing the actual validity of them. A comment was made about people saying they tried to contact our company and that it was not us. I can say for a fact that on google or any other search engines we compare our ingredients to others. Because of that the headings end up something like avotone vs alphaderma or alphaderma vs hydroderm. We get calls all the time of people misunderstanding the pay per click system and thinking they are calling the company in the comparison. We were the first to do the comparisons and now all the companies on the pay per clicks do it. So I guess it must be a good marketing technique. Back to the topic at hand, the "post"; it is public knowledge and a customer actually clipped it out and sent it to me. I have been talking about the peptide used in strivectin and saying that all companies using argireline give better benefits to the user, not only our product. The article was a way of showing that the active peptide palmitoyl pentapeptide 3 is not a proven way to reduce wrinkles. The ftc does not feel so and that is why the majority of peptide products since strivectin are using argireline. I certainly welcome any criticism as it is what makes a company learn and grow. If the post was taken the wrong way I apologize but it does give insight to consumers who otherwise would not be able to read about it. The last thing that was discussed is that we don't answer e-mails. I can say that we have employees who do nothing all day but answer e-mails. So once and a while if one gets misplaced or not answered I apologize but we are a very busy company trying to respond the best we can. I also would like to say that we answer e-mails pertaining to any skin care question, alot having nothing to do with our items or possible sales. We do this to help people with questions who have no other place to get a knowledgeable answer without having to pay for it.
| Aurora wrote: |
I may be the only one who find this disturbing, but I have for a while now been quite annoyed by one particular company's representative on this forum.
It seems to me that this person only appears when someone has a negative experience with the products, in order to stop the discussion by indicating that the products have been used incorrectly, or that you must have called the wrong company etc. The result often being that the member with negative results feels like an idiot, and maybe other members hesitat
to give their honest opinion in order to avoid being confronted by this person.
In addition I do also find it very unprofessional that this representative choses to post information that slanders the competition. I have never seen anything like that from any other skincare company that openly frequent this forum!
As I said, this is my opinion and not everybody might find this problematic. I do find this behaviour to be very unprofessional, and it is the main reason I chose not to try any of their products. |
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JB Cosmeceuticals |
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Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:54 pm |
aurora,
I see where you're coming from...but choose not to comment publicly.
There are a few people who frustrate me on the forum...I just ignore them...I skip over their posts and go to the next one. |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:59 am |
mmm ...Thing is Ian, is this is not the first time you have claimed that the pentapeptides in SV and other products don't work, despite several members having good results with them. Whilst there may only be two clinical trials that support the use of pentapeps (and sponsored by sederma, so therefore hardly independent), the fact that if it can be claimed that collagen passes the dermal layer (or whatever the tech term is) without any support, other than user reports, then surely the same must be accepted for pentapeps?
I think also the proliferation of products containing BOTH AH3 and pentapeps, is recognition that they are both good ingredients which can play differing roles in the anti aging arsenal.
Bottom line is, NO research into this kind of stuff is impartial or independent, so we have to make our decisions based on what has worked for us individually. Just because something hasn't worked for us as an individual is no reason to slate it for eveyone else (although I hypercritically withdraw that when it came to the darphin lotion that turned my face into a big dandruff flake...avoid! ).
Liz  |
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my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:57 am |
ok.
Since we all know who is the person in question can I ask something of those who want to reply.
If it was me, mabsy or anyone else posting such links, questioning what a company puts in their products or how they're marketed would we be bothered? Quite often it comes back with a -thanks for that, interesting read etc. If it is the fact that he can be said to be from a rival company and therefore everything he posts is suspicious then why read his posts or indeed reply to them - surely we know that and don't need someone to hold our hands?
Cindi - I to has sent a question but with no response - that's a service issue not a reflection on product quality, I also remember one or two people show up bitching about EDS - most of know it to be a great company/website/forum and we don't have problems. So it's one of those things.
guapa-good points, we use the review section to hopefully give honest feedback with our products and it allows others to ask us about them, at the same time I've sat at home watching the wrinkle cream adverts, you know the ones 97% increase in firmness, 80% decrease in wrinkles then it comes up at the end based on 40 women self evaluation - and I don't trust those ads come to think of it why should I trust the reviews here or anyone trust mine?
There are lots of things that go into creams today, it can be hard to say what is the magic ingredient and what isn't.
I've got some SBC collagen gel (plant origin) now when I read various beauty mags, up pops a doctor saying collagen can't pass through the skin yet my skin looks better when I use it? so who do I trust?
Sorry for going on and rambling about other stuff but it comes down to this for me.
We know which company Ian is from so how much value we place on his opinion is up to us. |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:14 am |
Brava Guapagirl!
What we have to keep in mind is this - very few skincare companies actually perform ongoing, pervasive research for the mere fact that what they discover almost always invalidates previous claims made by their company. Mimetic penta-peptides have a different effect than argireline. So yes, technically they are not effective at blocking the neuro-receptors, but that's not even what they're for. They are designed to increase collagen & elastin production & to plump the skin. So let's please stop comparing apples & oranges. There's nothing wrong with a fruit salad! |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:20 am |
| pbsadhaka wrote: |
| Mimetic peptides have a different effect than argireline. So yes, technically they are not effective at blocking the neuro-receptors, but that's not even what they're for. They are designed to increase collagen & elastin production & to plump the skin. So let's please stop comparing apples & oranges. There's nothing wrong with a fruit salad! |
Bravo to the power of infinity!  and right on, Guapagirl!!!
Pudoodles |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:22 am |
You might say I am bias but have to throw my two cents in here.
Ian has been a part of this forum since June/July. He has posted many helpful post. Being the straight shooter that he is, he tells it as it is. Being very passionate about his company he is interested in public opinion. When someone is having a problem he is there to help which is unheard of nowadays. I guess he is like Dr. H's Cleansing Cream you either love it or hate it .
As far as all these studies I really don't care. If a product is working for me I will continue using it. As a manufacturer of skin care I guess Ian looks at it differently. Was the recent thread concerning another company a mistake? If it was from another member NO. From a skin care manufacturer I can see where it raised a few brows.
As far as reaching him email, as I understand it the emails are overwhelming. If someone has an important questions perhaps it would be a good idea to call the toll free number. How many skin care companies send personal emails? They are usually auto response. Like a doctors office...if you have a concern that is that important call them.
Now for the new members who think I am bias.....Perhaps now I am. But from June 04 - Nov. 04 I was just another customer and forum member liking the JB products. Ian to date is one of the most generous and sincere people I know.
Of course we all have members that we might not care for their style. I also agree to either ignore them or Private Message them with your opinion. I think it is in poor taste to publicly start a topic on a member (even though name wasn't mentioned we could figure out). We all have feelings  .
Afraid of being made to feel like an idiot  I just don't get that. If anyone made a forum member feel uncomfortable there would be enough of us to jump all over their case (in a polite way of course). |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:50 pm |
I must be in la la land, b/c there is no one who ever frustrates me on this forum. All I have found are some great people who have more than helped me in my quest for HG skincare. (Oh God, I hope I haven't aggravated anyone! lol!)
To paraphrase Winnie - was it a mistake to dog Strivectin when so many people have been happy with it and seeing results? Maybe. I do have to say though, after reading the article, I said to myself "Gee, I'm glad I never forked over $120 to try it." If I ever WAS going to try it, I probably won't now. Will Klein-Becker care? I doubt it - especially when you look at the revenue on the product! Holy smoke! On the other hand, I DID fork over the money to try Alpha Derma, (twice,no less) and to this day, I'm still not sure if it's helped or not. Part of me wants to say yes, but part of me could be just wishful thinking. (wish I took before and after pix) But it HAS worked wonders for a bunch of other people here - so if say, a Klein-Becker rep came on the forum and debunked ADCE and said it's crap, I think you'd have a lot of people scratching their heads saying "but my crows feet are diminished, my forehead lines are gone, etc, etc, it HAS helped me!" I also bet that Ian would come on to defend JB's products.
Ian was VERY helpful to me in response to an email I sent him regarding a skin condition. Not only did he get back to me, he called me and talked to me for at least a half hour on the phone while I bombarded him w/ questions. He was patient and kind. Not only that, he sent FULL SIZE products for me to try, and although one was a little harsh for my sensitive skin, I found the other to be lovely. Seriously, how many company ceo's are going to do that? So for me, he's a class act.
Just my two cents for what they're worth.
Thanks. Maria |
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Maria, early 50's, post meno, normal to dry skin, more dry in winter, some sun damage... |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:21 pm |
Ian was VERY helpful to me in response to an email I sent him regarding a skin condition. Not only did he get back to me, he called me and talked to me for at least a half hour on the phone while I bombarded him w/ questions. He was patient and kind. Not only that, he sent FULL SIZE products for me to try, and although one was a little harsh for my sensitive skin, I found the other to be lovely. Seriously, how many company ceo's are going to do that? So for me, he's a class act.
Just my two cents for what they're worth.
Thanks. Maria
Maria,
I know for a fact that your experience is certainly not unusual. Everyday this CEO does this for his customers. He just cares. I also know for a fact that for three weeks he was out very sick. I don't know if I should be saying this on the forum. If not, Ian, I am very sorry. There is absolutely no way this man does not care enough to help his customers. |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:51 pm |
I also think Ian is a "class act". (I appreciated the info on Strivectin too.) I don't mind when I know that someone represents a company it is when you suspect and someone is not honest about it that it really bothers me. 
As for Ian and the products...I had a bad reaction to the argireline in the Janson-Beckett products. I now know (or at least suspect) that it is the argireline that irritated my face and will not try anything with that ingredient again.  (I had the same reaction with Relaxaline.)
Anyhow Ian went out of his way to send me free products to heal up my face and he and Winnie tried to help me every way they could. It was above and beyond what I expected in terms of customer service. |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:04 pm |
I don't mind at all if someone who is affiliated with a particular company boosts their product. If someone is involved with a product, regardless of the level of their involvement, I would expect that they would be pretty high on it.
Additionally, it is very often the case that they are PRECISELY the people I want to hear from when I have a question, because their knowledge and experience is most certainly going to be more extensive than what I might find in a product insert.
What I do object to, however, is someone putting down a competitor. It's completely inappropriate to this forum and, to be blunt, it pisses me off.
I had a question a month or so back about how to incorporate Prevage into my skincare regimen. The Prevage insert tells you to apply it before anything else. I was wondering if, perhaps, I shouldn't put it on after my JB AH3 Skin Prep. I also wanted to make sure that one product didn't render the other inactive (i.e. the way that vitamin C renders copper peptide ineffective). My dermatologist wasn't much help, because she isn't familiar with the JB line. I asked Ian.
My complaint was NOT in the speed of the reply. He replied promptly. His tone, however, was outrageous. It was as if I had committed a sin by even proposing to use something OTHER THAN the AH3 Skin Prep and Alpha Derm! I really was sorry that I asked.
However, although I really was annoyed by Ian's tone, it was my choice to seek his opinion. The communique was a private one. To my mind, that is ENTIRELY different than a public posting. But, I find exactly the same tone...
I understand that when someone works on developing a product, they are often passionate about it. And, I do appreciate the willingness to share information. But, I really do find some of the other stuff questionable. I was giving serious consideration to raising it myself and I'm happy that somebody else did. |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:21 pm |
| Eve wrote: |
| If it was me, mabsy or anyone else posting such links, questioning what a company puts in their products or how they're marketed would we be bothered? |
Of course not. But I think it is unfair to make this comparison.
You, Mabsy and everyone else post your personal opinions on lots of different products. Ian seems to only reply to threads that directly or indirectly concern his products. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Afterall, its only natural that he wants to protect his product's reputation and as Winnie points out, Ian also cares about his customers as so wants to answer their questions. But IMHO that is what might be taken the wrong way. Ian has customers, he is selling a product. I haven't been here very long, but as far as I can tell, Ian is the only person who posts on this forum exclusively about a product he is trying to sell (or its competitors)
I think that if Mabsy suddenly announced she worked for Valmont, I for one would raise a slightly suspicious eyebrow everytime she sung the renewing pack's praises. But that's just my 2 cents. |
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Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:36 pm |
I think it's the optics that make it off-putting. I would suspect (without being brazen) that there is a default financial (and therefore) emotional vested interest for at least some of the reps perusing the Board who actually wear their corporate hats - more certainly for those way up in the heirarchy. It's too bad for them (and I think, for those companies) - since the assumed bias may perhaps disqualify, or at least render questionable, some of the product-based advice they provide. Another thing - If I post a review, and someone "challenges" it (I'm using that word softly..) then the banter that follows is consumer to consumer (as far as I know...) The dynamics change when the post arrives with a corporate name attached to the member - then it's the company that is responding - not the person. As long as the organization accompanies the name - it's a corporate e-mail, dramatically changing the nature of the correspondence. In this case, it changes into a "company" challenging "another company" (another company I might add, that won't likely have a chance to defend itself to JB). So I can easily see why it woudn't sit well with some people and how it can easily be interpreted as "unfair game". It has nothing to do with whether or not Ian is wonderful - the problem is that the post actually came from a "company" (by virtue of the JB tagline) which completely redefined the message - making it feel opportunistic, with perhaps very unintended "buy my product instead" undercurrents.
Pudoodles |
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 3:23 am |
| rzecka wrote: |
| Eve wrote: |
| If it was me, mabsy or anyone else posting such links, questioning what a company puts in their products or how they're marketed would we be bothered? |
Of course not. But I think it is unfair to make this comparison.
You, Mabsy and everyone else post your personal opinions on lots of different products. Ian seems to only reply to threads that directly or indirectly concern his products. I'm not saying this is a bad thing. Afterall, its only natural that he wants to protect his product's reputation and as Winnie points out, Ian also cares about his customers as so wants to answer their questions. But IMHO that is what might be taken the wrong way. Ian has customers, he is selling a product. I haven't been here very long, but as far as I can tell, Ian is the only person who posts on this forum exclusively about a product he is trying to sell (or its competitors)
I think that if Mabsy suddenly announced she worked for Valmont, I for one would raise a slightly suspicious eyebrow everytime she sung the renewing pack's praises. But that's just my 2 cents. |
And it's quite right that you(we) would question that, we must all be somewhat critical if someone has a vested interest in a particular brand, do we need someone to do it for us? I'm not a kid and don't need to be treated like one.
For what it's worth I've been accused of trolling on one board simply because I don't post too often and then only one certain threads. Am I a troll? to some but I'm also quite busy and check in to several other places before the site concerned. I'm also a mod on 3 forums - that can change the dynamics when you go from poster to policewoman!
But in reality I wouldn't expect Ian to chime in on a workout video thread I would expect him to do what he has been doing, comment on his product and be critical of similar marketed items - if he didn't believe in his research/product he'd be working for them.
Don't get me wrong I understand people's concerns but what are we suggesting? Why can't people just ignore it? Challenge the person privately before taking it to the board perhaps they don't realise how upset someone is by their action? then perhaps discuss it with a mod before asking the board I think that's fairer to everyone. I just don't want to see the board squabble about this |
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:52 am |
OK. I have been reading these posts and quietly absatining from saying anything, but now I have to give my $0.2. And I don't know Ian, and I'm sure that he is a great guy. But I thought there was a code of conduct about not pushing your own products on this board? I mean, I own my own skin care company, but I am not always pushing my products while I criticize others.
I am on this board as a private person - a consumer, just like everybody else. I just feel it's a bit unethical to be pushing your goods in this forum. And again, I don't know Ian - and I believe that he is as nice as Winnie says, but what constitutes spam and what is acceptable? Is it OK to promote your product line if you are nice on the phone and give out free samples?
I'm just trying to play devil's advocate here and clear up some of my own confusion- not trying to bash Ian. |
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:20 am |
| I think anyway we can get things straight and clear things up is step in the right direction |
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Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:07 am |
I just wanted to add that I have interacted a great deal with JB about their products through this Board. I have *never* been made to feel uncomfortable about my current regime - which, by the way, includes Strivectin..There has not even been a hint of a suggestion that I should get rid of the Strivectin - nothing like that at all. I have been provided with excellent, thoughtful advice. The service I have received has been oustanding - and second to none in terms of professionalism.
Pudoodles |
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