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Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:25 pm  |
I would like make a lotion that includes oils as well as the actives in the subject line. All of those are not oil soluble. It is my understanding that I would then need an emulsifier. Is it as simple as mixing my oils in one cup, mixing the water/glycerin/niacinamide in another cup. Then combining those cups and adding a certain amount of polysorbate 80? And if so, how much polysorbate 80?
I researched that Glycerin and Niacinamide should be at minimum percentages of around 3%. But how much water should I be adding to make it a good lotion (what exactly is waters function when mixing with oils for a lotion)?
I would like to mix the oils that are in "Never over the hill" Livin Lotion, but also add avocado oil.
So to make a lotion, I was thinking something like this:
Cup 1
43% water. Is this too much?
25% macadamia nut oil
13% jojoba oil
6% avocado oil
5% sensolene (squalene alternative)
3% glycerin
3% niacinamide
Maybe some xathum gum? (I saw this in the Living Lotion ingredients. what would this function as?)
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! |
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:39 am |
| The content you are using for making lotion are very nice for skin, your skin will definitely glow after applying these home made lotion. |
_________________
TCM Recipe| Best Home Made Herbal Eczema Cream |
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:10 am |
Thanks, that looks pretty enticing. A lot more ingredients and $$$$ in the one you linked to. Might be a little out of my budget at the moment. I think I'm going to just try to tackle the ingredients I posted above for now. Plus, I'm already applying Tretinoin and Vitamin C serum currently.
Hopefully someone can help me out with the mix in my original post.
EDIT: Come to think of it, I should probably leave the Niacinamide out, as I just want this to be a moisturizing type of lotion. Not a treatment. Im assuming Niacinamide is used more for a "treatment" rather than moisturizing effects |
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Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:55 pm |
You're very adventurous trying to concoct something without a recipe. I don't DIY but these saved links may answer some of your questions. BTW, I think xantham gum is a thickener and stabilizer, not an emulsifier per se.
HTH and good luck! |
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Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:57 pm |
Wow thanks for those links. I am going to read through them fully soon. The lotioncrafter link below was of tremendous help to me. A lot of calculations and explanations showing you how much and what kind of emulsifiers to use for oils.
After reading that, I know that the oil mix in my original post above is going to be around an HLB Of 7. This means that I'm going to have to buy Glyceryl Stearate, and then mix both polysorbate 80 and Glyceryl Stearate to make my emulsifier reach an HLB of 7.
If the lotion you want to make is at 20% oil, the link said to use only 2% of emulsifier. NOTE: swiftcraftmonkey instead says to use half parts oil and half parts emulsifier. Wouldn't that be too much emulsifier? I think lotioncrafters would know more than swiftcraftmonkey.
I also learned that the water phase needs no emulsifier added (from what I understood according to the lotioncrafters link). And learned that the glycerin goes into the water phase.
Then I mix the oil phase and water phase.
However, a couple things I am still not sure about.
1. Do I have to heat anything or can I just mix everything at room temperature?
2. My above emulsion calculation did not take into account the sensolene. This is because I couldn't find the HLB of sensolene. Can anyone help me out with this? I am assuming it goes in the oil phase since lotioncrafters says it is oil soluble. But it has no HLB rating, I'm confused?
3. Where does the xanthan gum come into play (when and how should I mix that into the lotion)?
4. If I wanted to add a preservative like Optiphen plus, should that be added in the water or oil phase, or after they are mixed?
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/pdf/Emulsions_&_HLB_System.pdf |
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Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:34 pm |
| FYI, for some reason, you have to copy and paste that lotioncrafter link for it to load properly. When you just click on it, the page doesnt load properly |
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Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:09 pm |
I'm going to add 6% emulsifier to my recipe. I want it to be a bit high for the oil phase, as I have dry skin. This link explained how much emulsifier to use, and also included a calculator
http://www.makingskincare.com/hlb-calculator/
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For a lotion with a low to medium oil phase (generally for oily to normal skin) try the emulsifier at 4%. D46 and E46 tells you how much % you need of emulsifier 1 and how much you need of emulsifier 2
Note – if you are making a lotion with a high in oil content try 5-8% emulsifier. To do this adjust the formulas in D46 and E46 – delete the 4 and replace with a 5, 6, 7 or 8. Also take note of the manufacturers recommendations. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:20 am |
| stillerfan21 wrote: |
Wow thanks for those links. I am going to read through them fully soon. The lotioncrafter link below was of tremendous help to me. A lot of calculations and explanations showing you how much and what kind of emulsifiers to use for oils.
After reading that, I know that the oil mix in my original post above is going to be around an HLB Of 7. This means that I'm going to have to buy Glyceryl Stearate, and then mix both polysorbate 80 and Glyceryl Stearate to make my emulsifier reach an HLB of 7.
If the lotion you want to make is at 20% oil, the link said to use only 2% of emulsifier. NOTE: swiftcraftmonkey instead says to use half parts oil and half parts emulsifier. Wouldn't that be too much emulsifier? I think lotioncrafters would know more than swiftcraftmonkey.
I also learned that the water phase needs no emulsifier added (from what I understood according to the lotioncrafters link). And learned that the glycerin goes into the water phase.
Then I mix the oil phase and water phase.
However, a couple things I am still not sure about.
1. Do I have to heat anything or can I just mix everything at room temperature?
2. My above emulsion calculation did not take into account the sensolene. This is because I couldn't find the HLB of sensolene. Can anyone help me out with this? I am assuming it goes in the oil phase since lotioncrafters says it is oil soluble. But it has no HLB rating, I'm confused?
3. Where does the xanthan gum come into play (when and how should I mix that into the lotion)?
4. If I wanted to add a preservative like Optiphen plus, should that be added in the water or oil phase, or after they are mixed?
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/pdf/Emulsions_&_HLB_System.pdf |
the swiftcraftymonkey link you referenced is discussing the use of polysorbate as a solubilizer (not as an emulsifier). that blog is actually a great source of info because the woman behind it knows her science, so don't write it off based on a misunderstanding! here's a better explanation on emulsifiers: http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2013/10/chemistry-thursday-difference-between.html
in essence: polysorbate by itself won't work as an emulsifier to create a lotion--hence the need for a stearate. in this case: a polysorbate + a stearate = your emulsifier.
you really may be better off starting with a tested recipe since you've never made a lotion before. several good ones have been referenced in this thread. skincaretalk.com is a great resource for recipes and I think the DIY forum there has more activity--you might have a better shot asking your questions there. i know you said elsewhere it's too expensive to buy ingredients you don't already have... but without previous experience or a recipe to follow, what's the likelihood of success? if you end up wasting your raw materials on failed attempts, that won't be very cost effective either. it won't even be an educational failure since it will be hard to know exactly where or why things went wrong. just something to consider. |
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Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:23 am |
Thank you for that! Yeah I was confused because she used so much emulsifier. But after reading it again, i realize she was not making a lotion.
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| you really may be better off starting with a tested recipe since you've never made a lotion before. several good ones have been referenced in this thread. skincaretalk.com is a great resource for recipes and I think the DIY forum there has more activity--you might have a better shot asking your questions there. i know you said elsewhere it's too expensive to buy ingredients you don't already have... but without previous experience or a recipe to follow, what's the likelihood of success? if you end up wasting your raw materials on failed attempts, that won't be very cost effective either. it won't even be an educational failure since it will be hard to know exactly where or why things went wrong. just something to consider. |
That is something to consider. However, the following quote below from the lady who runs that blog makes sense also. I think if I read, research enough and get a little bit of forum help before I dive into everything, I may be able to work this thing out on my own, although I may fail once or twice. But that is good experience.
And yeah, she does seem to know her stuff. I've been learning a lot since reading her many posts
Quote from her blog:
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| Ask yourself these questions and I think you'll find the answer to why your lotion failed. Fails are normal and part of the process. I know it feels like you're wasting supplies, but think of how much you've learned from just one separated lotion! You've learned about emulsifiers, heating and holding, measuring by weight, choosing a good recipe, mixing, and everything else. It's worth the frustration and garbaged supplies if you can make an awesome lotion next time! |
I have Optiphen plus. Can anyone tell me what is meant when she says the following. Will my ingredients (Polysorbate 80 and the Glyceryl Stearate) above be Ok with Optiphen Plus?
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| As an aside, some emulsifiers don't play well with other ingredients. Check to ensure your emulsifier can play well with cationic or positively charged ingredients, different preservatives, and extracts. (Using Optiphen as a preservative can cause some problems with curdled lotions!) |
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