??about homemade C serum?
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free skin care · Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:45 pm

Is there a way I can make C serum by using SC B5 gel(I have a lot a lot of it and am thinkling to use it up and have some vit C ic my routine) and L-Absorbic powder?TIA

free skin care · Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:23 pm

Please post the ingredients of the B5 gel. If it is mostly a water-based product, then you can just sprinkle your vitamin c powder into the gel in your hand & apply it that way. I don't know about making a whole batch...stability issues would concern me.

free skin care · Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:54 pm

The ingredients are
Water Sodium Hyaluronate Pantothenic Acid Phenoxyethanol

Thanks for helping Darren!

free skin care · Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:04 pm

Sure! I love helping out when I can. All of the ingredients that you listed are water soluble. So your vitamin C powder should dissolve in it with no problem. I just don't know how you would be able to control the percentage of vitamin c if you just sprinkle the powder into the gel as you use it. But if you make a whole batch, then it may oxidize & actually ruin your B5 gel. So it'a a double edged sword!

free skin care · Wed Jun 15, 2005 12:38 am

Thanks a zillion! May be I will try making a small batch and see how it goes...oxidization means the color changes , right?

BTW...are these homemade serums as effective as the store/net bought one..I mean, does skin absorbs it as well (the skincare cos are always saying that their formulas absorb deep down in skin layers!)and does it not get oxidized very fast once on the skin (since its not encapsulated in something) before even it has a chance to get absorbed!

I know you have your own skincare company..please take no offence if my questions sound totally stupid..i am just wondering if , after all the effort, i will make and use something which is not effective. Mad

i know...that a lot of questions but I always think along those lines whenever I see a thread on homemade serums. Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:39 pm

I love talking about this stuff! I am soooo into this - don't worry that your questions are irritating - I dig these posts! Laughing

Stability issues are really only a concern if you are formulating large quantities & they are sitting in storage until they sell. Even though our C Serum is encapsulated & stable, we still manufacture them is very small batches, as we do not want product sitting around for more than a few weeks.

As for your homemade serum, I think it would be fine, as long as you either made up small batches, or used them quickly. But again, I don't know how you would be able to measure the concentration of C in your gel.

Do you have a scale that measure to 0.001g? If so, you could pre-measure out your C powder & put your "doses" in little plastic baggies or something & add it to your B5 gel as you apply it. Or just make a full batch & hope for the best.

As for oxidation, there is disagreement in the scientific community as to whether the color change (yellowing) is the l-ascorbic acid itself oxidizing, or the base substance (HA for example) becoming oxidized from the vitamin c. Also, studies have been done that show that even after the ascorbic acid has been exposed to an oxidizing agent, it can still retain up to 98% of it's efficacy for antioxidant action & dermal matrix stimulation.
So, some researches believe that the whole "stability" issue is really not that big of a deal.

As for absorption, skincare manufacturers can add ingredients that boost penetration, but with vitamin c it really isn't necessary unless you are looking for a time-release system to reduce irritation. With C serums, I believe that simple is best. The more ingredients you add, the less effective the vitamin c is on your skin. I wouldn't worry about it really. Your c product, made fresh & stored properly (& used rapidly) should be fine. Again, the only thing I'm really concerned with is how you are going to formulate your percentages. Do you have a plan?

free skin care · Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:31 pm

thanks for your patience! now that i am reassured...I will go ahead and make a small batch, like a week's worth and see how it goes.

i dont have a scale like the one you mentioned...but I have used one before, a lot of times and boy that is tedious...and I know they are expensive so i wont be getting one. I will just use really small spoons or , what the heck!, just guess. here I said it!

actually I have been mixing some Vit c powder in J&B skin prep (didnt like the feel of it just sitting on my face and I think it gave me blackheads)and using it on my arms and back of my hands....and I just guess the quantities! But I understand that with my face i need to be more careful...Do you think it is a very bad idea. Like pouring some c powder in a sample c bottle and topping with B5 gel 4-5 times that....now if you want to laugh please go ahead Embarassed

free skin care · Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:02 am

Sorry to interupt...

I just wanted to to say, mithai, that I would be inclined to just guess too. Smile

But then it got me thinking. Darren, what problems, if any, could too much Vit C, or a too high percentage cause on our skin?

free skin care · Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:10 am

mithai wrote:

thanks for your patience! now that i am reassured...I will go ahead and make a small batch, like a week's worth and see how it goes.

i dont have a scale like the one you mentioned...but I have used one before, a lot of times and boy that is tedious...and I know they are expensive so i wont be getting one. I will just use really small spoons or , what the heck!, just guess. here I said it!

actually I have been mixing some Vit c powder in J&B skin prep (didnt like the feel of it just sitting on my face and I think it gave me blackheads)and using it on my arms and back of my hands....and I just guess the quantities! But I understand that with my face i need to be more careful...Do you think it is a very bad idea. Like pouring some c powder in a sample c bottle and topping with B5 gel 4-5 times that....now if you want to laugh please go ahead Embarassed

No -one is laughing. You are asking questions that I suspect more than one person would like to know the answer to. It is how we learn. I too am about to embark on homemade stuff and I am sure that I will be begging Darren and all the other clever people for advice and information. As soon as I get time to actually play with the stuff I have ordered.Watch this space,I will be back.

free skin care · Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:27 am

Too high a concentration of vitamin c can actually produce a peeling effect on the skin. The more vitamin c that you add, the lower the pH goes, the solution becoming more & more acidic. Unless you buffer or titrate your solution, you could end up with an ascorbic acid peel.
For your purposes, you could use a specific gravity of 1:1. So that would mean that 1 part of the gel weighs approximately as much as one part ascorbic acid powder. This is not exact, but it's as close as you're going to get without a scale. So let's say that you want to make a 10% vitamin c product. The formula you would use is this: M1=C2xM2/C1
What that means is that the mass of the active you are trying to add equals the concentration you want (percentage of active you want), multiplied by the mass of the base product (b5 gel), divided by the total concentration (100%)

So, if you were making 30mL of B5 gel w/10% vitamin c, this is what you would do:
30mL x 10% = 300
Divided by 100% = 3g ascorbic acid powder. (1g=1mL at the same specific gravity)

If you don't have a scale, you can use any other unit of measure (teaspoons, 1/4 teaspoons scoops, etc) just make sure that what you do is consistant.

So let's say you are using a 1 teaspoon scoop from your measuring spoon set.

You would add 3 scoops (level) of your ascorbic acid powder for every 30 scoops of your B5 gel. That would give you a 10% end product (roughly).

One thing to note: often adding vitamin c to a product will result in lowering the product's viscosity because you are lowering the pH. So your gel will likely become more watery. This will not effect the efficacy of the end product, only the texture of it.

I hope this makes sense! It's kind of hard to explain over email! If you have any more questions, please do ask. Don't be embarrassed to ask questions! I like talking shop! Laughing

free skin care · Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:34 pm

Hi Darren,
Dont worry, I aint no embarrassed gal...I just thought...guessing was a daring thing to do!...But apparently it is not. Thanks faith. and thanks loopylori for the encouragement!

Anyways,...I am no scientist so I could be totally wrong here..but Darren should it not be 3 scoops for every 27 scoops of B5 gel for a 10% concentration. I mean adding vit c must be increasing the volume of the solution somewhat!

free skin care · Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:07 pm

Yes, adding the vitamin c will increase the volume of the finished product, but you are not creating your own base, you are adding the c in as an active. So you will actually end up with 33mL of finished product using the formula I gave you. I just thought it would be easier for you to measure that way.
If you add 3 scoops of vitamin c to 27 scoops of the B5 gel like you suggested, you are no longer at a 10% concentration. Your final product will be 11.222% vitamin c. If you want it to be 10% and end up with 30mL total product, then you would add 2.7g l-ascorbic acid. But you said that you didn't have a scale, so I was trying to make it easier on you. But 11% isn't that much stronger than 10%, so it's up to you.
But you could use the same ratio to make any amount of finished product though...you could make whatever end volume you want, but keeping the same formula will give you a consistant concentration of vit.c

free skin care · Thu Jun 16, 2005 10:52 pm

But 3 ml of vit c in total 33ml end-product makes it around 9% of vit c in the end product..i.e.,3/33*100=9.0999. Isnt it? Or does it hold different meaning when it comes to concentration in cosmetics?....I must be missing something here

free skin care · Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:28 pm

No, the formula does not work in reverse. You took 3g/mL of c and divided it by the 30 mL of base, but also by itself, then multiplied it by 100%. That's not the correct fromula for concentration by volume/mass.
The formula for measuring concentration by mass is: M1=(C2)(M2)/C1
so, (10%)(30mL)/100% =3g vitamin c = 33mL total product.

You are trying to figure out how much vitamin c to add to a certain amount of B5 gel to get a certain concentration of vitamin c, right? Maybe I misunderstood what you were wanting to figure out?

free skin care · Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:45 am

Darren, now you are talking in a language that is alien to me...

And since I am just guessing....I will stick to that and confirm to self that my Physics was never that great.

BTW I just made a small batch of Vit C serum..(dont ask how I measured)...and it dissolved right away! I will use it tonight! Pray

free skin care · Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:14 am

I'm sure it will be fine! Let us know how it works out for you.

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