glycerin vs propylene glycol vs water
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Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:11 pm

i was just wondering which would be the best PENETRATOR!!! of glycerin, propylene glycol, or good ol' fashioned water.

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:40 pm

Hi Knorr, are you trying to formulate something or analyze a product's ingredients?

I reviewed my research notes - glycerine is a penetration enhancer and also a hyrator that performs well in skin barrier repair. Can't find penetration enhancement info on the other two. I know water is used to dilute and/or disperse ingredients, and that at low %s propylene gylcol hydrates. HTH

Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:44 pm

thanks crazyskin,

actually, im trying to forumulate my own ca-razy vitamin c serum. i cant get my grubby little hands on propylene glycol but vegetable glycerin keeps poppin up just about everywhere! i just wanna know whether the glycerin will do the job and penetrate deep down into my tight skin.

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:01 pm

vegetable glycerin is a wonderful delivery agent, however due to it's high humectant properties, it is always attracting moisture into the skin, which can leave the skin feeling "tacky" or "sticky". You can alleviate this by keeping your glycerin content low in your formulation, but then you will run into stability issues with your L-ascorbic acid. (the less glycerin you use, the more water will be in your formula, and the more unstable your solution will be), unless you can find a stabilized vitamin c powder. Or you, you could use alcohol instead of the glycerin/water mixture, but it woul dbe very drying & irritating at such a low pH & with no emollient factors to soothe the skin.

Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:13 pm

okay, thanks for all the help!

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:29 pm

On the MUA board (where much homemade C is made), they say that propylene glycol enhances penetration of C into the skin. If you go over there, (Makeupalley.com)and look at StAmourOwl's notepad, you will see a ton of info on mixing up your own C.

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:41 pm

i'm PM carekate to ask about this. she's the oracle when it comes to making your own products, you could say a bit of a skincare macgyver!
i'm sure she'll know straight away which one is the right one.

Kiwigirl.

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:44 pm

yes, betterat40 is right, PG is a wonderful delivery agent as well. And is not as sticky as vegetable glycerin. However, many people find it to be irritating, and it is not advisable to use more than 10% concentration of PG in a formula due to sensitivity. You said that you couldn't find PG - have you looked at thepersonalformulator.com? I know that many other DIY'ers get theirs from them. They are very trustworthy.
Also, as an afterthought, sodium lactate is a great option to use in place of glycerin, but again only up to 10%. It leaves a very luxureous, silky feel to the skin. But, I do not know about stability issues with sodium lactate when using regular l-ascorbic acid powder. You'd have to research that & see what you can find.

Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:45 pm

i dont wanna trouble you kiwigirl, but i certainly wouldnt mind if you did, hehe

and thanks a lot betterat, ill check it out

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:47 pm

sorry, that should have said "i'd", meaning that you (knorr) should PM her to ask... sheesh, i'm having a nightmare this morning, just put orange juice on my cereal instead of in the glass...

(slightly spacy) Kiwigirl.

Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:56 pm

m sodium lactate eh? i think ima have to look into that, thanks for the thought

and dont wore kiwi, everyone has days like that, hehe

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:59 pm

yeah, i think i need a cup of tea and a lie down! what a total spaz... i've also just realised that i've put my jersey on the wrong way around (i wondered why i felt a bit like i was choking)... what is going on?!

Kiwigirl *going off to wonder how i manage to remember to breathe...*

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:09 pm

Okay ... here's my stupid question of the day! Laughing

Aside from the drying aspects of using alcohol, is there a problem with mixing, say, vegetable glycerin with alcohol for a "longer lasting" Vitamin C serum?

Now I'm interested in pbsadhaka's comment that the vegetable glycerin or PG shouldn't comprise more than 10% of the mixture ... and while math was never my strong suit, I would think that all of the recipes for Vitamin C serum actually call for more than 10% ... no?

And why should they not comprise more than 10%? Is it a "pore clogging" thing or a "Vitamin C can't work its way through it" sort of thing?

Sorry for all the questions ... but I do so love making my own Vit. C serum ... and want to understand what it is I'm doing. Very Happy

Mary

Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:19 pm

just wonderin about the vitamin c serum, does it matter if i refrigerate or just leave it layin around?

Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:19 pm

haha poor kiwi, but i do that a lot, and then i have to wiggle my way around in the shirt

but i have another question:
just wonderin about the vitamin c serum, does it matter if i refrigerate or just leave it layin around

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:40 pm

Hi Knorr,

From what I've read on the instability of Vitamin C, it should be refrigerated to preserve as much potency as possible for as long as possible.

This doesn't mean that it will last very long at full potency ... but since heat is one of the things that quickly degrades Vitamin C, I would think you'd have a better chance of it being more potent if you refrigerate it.

Just my opinion ... others may disagree.

Mary

Tue Oct 04, 2005 5:37 pm

ahh thankies mary, i figured i might as well pop the serum into the fridge anyways, just to be on the safe side. i guess its better to make up small batchs and use em up, instead of leaving it to degrade

free skin care · Tue Oct 04, 2005 6:18 pm

hpjrt,
As for the % of glycerin, it can't hurt you to use a higher concentration, it just won't produce as nice of a feeling product, also, combination to oily skin types will have a problem using a formula with a higher glycerin content because of skin congestion issues.
You could try adding a small amount of alcohol - as long as your skin is not overly dry or sensitive. But I don't know about using it on a daily basis. I wouldn't do it personally, but everyone's skin has a different tolerance level.

free skin care · Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:22 pm

My 2¢, for what it’s worth:

When I created my first batch of homemade Vit-C serum, I used glycerin because I didn’t have any propylene glycol available. The resulting formulation was absolutely horrible for my particular über oily skin type. It was sticky and tacky and made me feel like even more of a greaseball than usual. Once I got my PG and made a new batch of Vit-C serum, I found this formula much better suited to my skin....

As Darren said, you can get PG fromwww.thepersonalformulator.com, and while they *do* ship internationally, for orders within the U.S. they charge a minimum shipping fee of $8.00, so Lord only knows what the minimum S&H fee is for orders outside the States!

At the risk of repeating myself for the 50th time, I have two gigantic bottles of propylene glycol so I am willing to “decant” a small amount (approximately 2-ounces) and send it to international EDS members for little or no cost depending upon how much the *actual* postage amount will cost me to send to your particular location. If you wish to avail yourself of this offer, send me a PM with your full name and mailing address.

HTH,
Carrie

free skin care · Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:57 pm

Carrie!

Nice to see you here! You've been away for a few days!

Yes ... I am anxiously awaiting the sample of PG that you arranged to send to me. Very Happy

Mary

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