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Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:24 pm  |
Here is the link:
http://www.futurederm.com/2008/03/06/spotlight-on-vitamin-c/
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What are all of the different forms of vitamin C available in skin care products?
L-ascorbic acid is the most common form of vitamin C used in skin care. It is water-soluble. The advantage to L-ascorbic acid is that its concentrations are well-established in skin care products; for instance, CellexC contains 10% L-ascorbic acid and Skinceuticals CE Ferulic ($103.70, Amazon.com) contains 15% L-ascorbic acid. It has been shown that topical application of CellexC, with 10% L-ascorbic acid, results in the presence of L-ascorbic acid in the skin days after application, with an increase in the level of collagen as well. Unfortunately, it is well known (and reported here in the journal Die Pharmazie) that L-ascorbic acid changes upon exposure to light, heat, or air. In particular, L-ascorbic acid is reversibly oxidized to L-dehydroascorbic acid, at which point it may then be irreversibly oxidized to diketogulonic acid, which is inactive. For this reason, numerous substitutes to L-ascorbic acid are used in skin care.
Ascorbyl palmitate is a fat-soluble ester of L-ascorbic acid; it is L-ascorbic acid combined with palmitic acid, a fatty acid. According to a 1997 study, the ascorbyl palmitate is more stable than L-ascorbic acid. A 2001 study in the International Journal of Pharmaceutics found that the stability of ascorbyl palmitate was increased further when ascorbyl palmitate was used in high concentrations (1-2%), or placed in water-in-oil emulsions rather than oil-in-water emulsions, due to the relocation of the unstable cyclic ring to the internal aqueous phase in the water-in-oil emulsions. Given that ascorbyl palmitate concentrations are generally 0.05-1%, unless a higher concentration of ascorbyl palmitate is established for a product, sodium ascorbyl palmitate or magnesium ascorbyl palmitate have been found to be more stable in solutions (see below).
Sodium ascorbyl palmitate is a water-soluble form of L-ascorbic acid; it is L-ascorbic acid combined with palmitic acid, a fatty acid, and - you’ll never guess - sodium. According to a 2001 study in the International Journal of Pharmaceutics, sodium ascorbyl palmitate has greater long-term stability than ascorbyl palmitate when each is used in similar concentrations. Unlike ascorbyl palmitate, sodium ascorbyl palmitate is stable in water-in-oil emulsions and oil-in-water emulsions.
Magnesium ascorbyl palmitate is a water-soluble form of L-ascorbic acid. According to a 1997 study in the Journal of Pharmaceutical and Biomedical Analysis, magnesium ascorbyl palmitate has greater stability than both L-ascorbic acid and ascorbyl palmitate, like sodium ascorbyl palmitate. (As far as I know, no peer-reviewed published studies have compared the efficacy and stability of magnesium ascorbyl palmitate and sodium ascorbyl palmitate.)
Ascorbyl glucoside. Ascorbyl glucoside has a structure in which the C2-hydroxyl group of L-ascorbic acid is masked with glucose. According to the manufacturer, Hayashibara International, once ascorbyl glucoside is selectively permeated through the skin, it is broken down into L-ascorbic acid and glucose by the enzyme alpha-glucosidase. Essentially, because ascorbyl glucoside is broken down into L-ascorbic acid, it has the same functions as L-ascorbic acid! In addition, ascorbyl glucoside has been found to have greater stability in the presence of air, heat, light, and pH changes than L-ascorbic acid.
Ascorbyl glucosamine is L-ascorbic acid combined with (yes, this is obvious) glucosamine. Although the combination of N-acetyl glucosamine (NAG) and niacinamide was shown to reduce facial hyperpigmentation in Japanese and Caucasian subjects with facial hyperpigmentation in two double-blind, vehicle-controlled, split-face, left-right randomized clinical studies, use of a formulation with 5% ascorbyl glucosamine was shown to be less effective in reducing hyperpigmentation than 20% azelaic acid (source: Dermatology).
According to Dr. Burgess’s Cosmetic Dermatology textbook, “the most stable vitamin C preparations remain anhydrous or completely water-free.” |
She had this to say on tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate on another post on Jan 2008:
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Vitamin C and vitamin E have also been shown in this 1996 study, amongst others, to enhance the photoprotective effects of sunscreen. The unfortunate news is that the form of vitamin C used in this product is tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate, which is a stable form of vitamin C that has not been shown (as of yet) to show all of the properties of L-ascorbic acid (the more unstable form of vitamin C most commonly used in skin care and studies). This 2004 study reported the results of patients’ split-face use of 10% L-ascorbic acid and 7% tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate in combination, and the study yielded improvements in hyperpigmentation over vehicle. Still, more research needs to be done on tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate.
http://www.futurederm.com/2008/01/27/the-10-best-treatments-for-your-hands/ |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:00 pm |
Thanks for posting that bethany. I realized that I might be a bigger help for this thread if you send me the info for articles you're interested in but don't have access to. I can look up articles you've found on PubMed or elsewhere... While I can't become a full-time skincare researcher (darn!), I'll be happy to help if I can. (Did I mention that I'm an English teacher? That means my science research ain't the best.  ) |
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:17 pm |
Kassy, that sounds like a great recipe. You know, if you decided to make a large batch and just bottle it up and sell it to EDS members, I think you'd have some really eager customers right here 
That actually makes a lot of sense, since the initial investment into DIY seems to be large, but then you wind up with more product than you could possibly use, so it makes sense to split both the product and the cost with others.
| Kassy_A wrote: |
My you guys have been busy all day.. 
I just want to throw a couple of things out there that might help in your quest for the perfect C serum... Once upon a time, I had lots of studies bookmarked, but that computer has bit the dust. For now I can share what I recall from memory, and you can take it or leave it alone. In any case, I hope it helps.
1. L-Ascorbic Acid is the best, and most readily absorbable bar none, for collagen synthesis + UV protection. It must be at a PH of 3.5 or below to penetrate to the deeper layers for collagen synthesis.
2. LAA will have 'some' benefit on it's own, but is best used in a serum that includes Vitamin E. The synergistic effect between these two antioxidants is enormous. If you add vitamin A as well, it's better still.
3. LAA + vitamin E together in a serum will penetrate 'all' parts of the cell. Cells are made up mostly of water, with a lipid barrier.
4. Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate is a lipid, and on it's own in an oil based serum will only reach the lipid part of the cell. (This is my feeling from all I have read). I do believe it will make a superb serum when mixed with LAA in an anhydrous (polysilicone) base.
5. As far as wanting to really learn about Vitamin C + all it's derivatives, do a search on PubMed or any of the Dermatology + Plastic Surgery Journals.....You will never get the whole story from the manufacturers site. The only thing they will tell you is how wonderful their product is, and perhaps why all others don't measure up...I say a big fat phooey to all of them..
When I get ready to make my next serum, I am going to do it like this:
L-Ascorbic Acid 10%
Tetrahexyldecyl 7%
Vitamin E 1%
Retinol 1%
I haven't decided on the base yet, but for sure it will include SKB.
If I come across any good studies, I'll post them here. In the mean time, I hope this helps a little. |
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:36 pm |
| KBLang wrote: |
| Thanks for posting that bethany. I realized that I might be a bigger help for this thread if you send me the info for articles you're interested in but don't have access to. I can look up articles you've found on PubMed or elsewhere... While I can't become a full-time skincare researcher (darn!), I'll be happy to help if I can. (Did I mention that I'm an English teacher? That means my science research ain't the best. ) |
Oh trust me, we'll take you up that! Thanks for joining us here!  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:02 am |
From all the documentation that have been provided here, I can see no reason for people who tolerate l-ascorbic acid to switch to products with Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate.
I have been considering the 302 Skincare line, but will stick with SkinMedica C Complex (10 % l-ascorbic acid, 5 % tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate and vit E), and give SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic/CF Phloretin (l-ascorbic acid) a try.
I think it's an excellent idea to add Tetrahexyldecyl Ascorbate to body oils. |
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Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:28 am |
| Kassy, do you have a diy recipe for the new vit. c serum using vit e? |
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:13 am |
| Septembergirl wrote: |
I have been considering the 302 Skincare line, but will stick with SkinMedica C Complex (10 % l-ascorbic acid, 5 % tetrahexyldecyl ascorbate and vit E), and give SkinCeuticals CE Ferulic/CF Phloretin (l-ascorbic acid) a try.
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After reading "The New Science of Perfect Skin" this weekend, there is definitely some merit to using a C E combination since he says that they work synergistically and should be delivered together.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any Vit E in 302.  |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:24 pm |
About using oils instead of a silicon based medium, such as Monostat Chafine Relief Powder Gel, studies show that the best results were found with silicon-containing anhydrous bases.
I used Lotioncrafter's EL_DM. Their site describes it: "EL_DM is a non-emulsifying silicone copolymer network dispersed in dimethicone that yields...".
Anyway, I just made the super C gel, and it was really hard measuring out one milligram of product!
The resulting cream is very very incredibly smooth and gives a matt finish - guess that's from the silicones. .
I don't have any vitamin E capsules on hand, but I'm going to get some to add. |
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:56 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
[
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any Vit E in 302. |
EUREKA!!! .......... I hate being away, and not having a wireless signal...ARGHHH!!
Bare with me while I'm on dial-up through the 29th... (If I don't answer, it's cause I got 'booted', not cause I don't love you guys..
Beth, You can get vitamin E oil, or even capsules, and add it to the 302.. (It's already an oil soluble emulsion, so adding E oil is a cinch..) 2 capsules or 1 tsp of oil should work.. Just plop it in and shake.. |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:58 pm |
| Glad to be here, Bethany. Thanks! |
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:06 pm |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| Kassy, do you have a diy recipe for the new vit. c serum using vit e? |
Sherry, just use the proportions I suggessted in the previous post, because that is what I'm going to try when I get home from vacation....
I posted a couple of different vitamin C recipe's here on EDS that contain Vit E, so peek around for them..
In the mean-time, it's out the door to the Ocean I go with DH to have a glass of wine, and wait for the sunset...(I'm just lovin Sanibel Island....  )
K |
_________________
♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:02 pm |
Kassy, enjoy your vacation! We can wait.
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| sherryf13500 wrote: |
| Kassy, do you have a diy recipe for the new vit. c serum using vit e? |
Sherry, just use the proportions I suggessted in the previous post, because that is what I'm going to try when I get home from vacation....
I posted a couple of different vitamin C recipe's here on EDS that contain Vit E, so peek around for them..
In the mean-time, it's out the door to the Ocean I go with DH to have a glass of wine, and wait for the sunset...(I'm just lovin Sanibel Island.... )
K |
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:35 pm |
| So I'm at the lotion crafter website... I don't know if it's going to wind up saving me money, cause there is a lot in my shopping cart right now! |
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Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:47 am |
I haven't seen mention of measuring pH levels by adding an ascorbic acid to an oil base.
My understanding is that this is important for effectiveness.
Tks |
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:31 am |
| could anyone tell me if oral vit. c can istead of these |
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Tue Apr 28, 2009 6:58 pm |
| chyi wrote: |
| could anyone tell me if oral vit. c can istead of these |
It is recommended to take a Vitamin C oral supplement (1000mg daily) in addition to using a C Serum - they compliment each other. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Fri May 01, 2009 6:29 am |
Is the problem associated with creating a DIY oil based C serum that there are (1) no commercial recipes to follow for replication (2) not enough research to determine exact levels of concentration or pH levels and (3)not yet enough research behind oil soluble Vitamin C derivatives?
Thanks, BF |
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Fri May 01, 2009 6:48 pm |
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
| Is the problem associated with creating a DIY oil based C serum that there are (1) no commercial recipes to follow for replication (2) not enough research to determine exact levels of concentration or pH levels and (3)not yet enough research behind oil soluble Vitamin C derivatives? |
In no way am I particularly knowledgeable on all of the above but I do remember reading a study that said the most effective form of Vitamin C Serum was one that contained both L-Ascorbic Acid and oil soluble Vitamin C. There is a problem with L-Ascorbic Acid Serums in that they oxidise very quickly - but I don't know of any particular problems with oil soluble C. It's supposed to be much more stable.
For my oil soluble Vitamin C Serum I just use Pomegranate Oil (which I figure is beneficial anyway) and add the recommended amount of OS C to that. I do also use a LA C Serum as well. |
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Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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CRValeriann
New Member
 
Joined: 15 Jul 2014
Posts: 1
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Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:24 am |
Hello,
I've read this most informative thread, as I'm looking for sources of Vitamin C oil for skincare. I am interested in the Calmskin C Boost product but can't find. Can anyone provide a product url or name of manufacturer? Thanks so much! |
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Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:36 pm |
I get mine from lotioncrafter:
http://www.lotioncrafter.com/tetrahexyldecyl-ascorbate-BV-OSC.html
I am one of those people who has VERY good results with l-ascorbic acid, so it's my favorite. I got tetra-c because it seems like every DIYer has experimented with it at some point and I didn't want to be left out. (LOL!)
It's somewhat expensive, so I only use it around my eyes.
-10% tetra-c
-2% retinyl palmitate
-4% tocopheryl acetate
-a drop or two of a very strong carotenoid mix
-the remainder is equal amounts of borage & pomegranate oil
It's doing a better job of keeping my eyes moisturized and bright than borage oil alone. *shrug* Not as much research on it as I would like, tho. It's probably a really good one if you have very dry skin. |
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