Oxygen... question from the confused
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free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 10:32 am

I just love how people who are not even using products feel educated enough to comment on the inefficacy of them.

Do any of you REALLY think that you are more enlightened than the Nobel group who awarded Dr. Herzog with a Laureate for his work in creating an oxygen cream that assists in wound healing? If hydrogen peroxide could be dripped onto a wound and provide the same results, they wouldn't have bothered to recognize his contributions to medicine. I mean, really.

Adding hydrogen peroxide to a cream is not going to give you the same product or results. Give me a break. Is anyone here a cosmetic formulator and if so, I can only assume you're packaging up your creations to start a world-wide takeover of the Swiss skin care industry. We should warn them of their impending doom. Laughing

free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 12:07 pm

I've had chemistry - organic, inorganic and I can't begin to understand the intricacies of the discoveries and achievements of Dr. Herzog's research. Nor would I try.

I know we all like to read labels and we like to share what we know, however it's simplistic to think he threw some hydrogen peroxide with a cream and "discovered" his product. Or that we could all come up with the same thing. There's a reason he has received the honors he has.

And Karen Herzog has used this for probably 30 years and you should see her skin.. Amazing.

free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 12:34 pm

When did this forum become a dictatorship, where only one view of a subject is recognized?

You girls can bathe in HP for all I care. But I would be remiss, as a medical professional, to not offer the [facts], regarding a potential danger, when hydrogen peroxide is repeatedly used on the skin..

I would suggest you use the search data I offered above, which might help those interested, to learn a thing or two they may not have known....{After all, isn't it best to have all the facts, so an informed decision cand be made?)

The previous post's offered nothing but sarcasm,(really very childish.. Shame on you

) so I am left to assume that's the best you had to offer in defense of HP creams.

free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 12:42 pm

Kassy_A wrote:

When did this forum become a dictatorship, where only one view of a subject is recognized?

You girls can bathe in HP for all I care. But I would be remiss, as a medical professional, to not offer the [facts], regarding a potential danger, when hydrogen peroxide is repeatedly used on the skin..

I would suggest you use the search data I offered above, which might help those interested, to learn a thing or two they may not have known....{After all, isn't it best to have all the facts, so an informed decision cand be made?)

The previous post's offered nothing but sarcasm,(really very childish.. Shame on you

) so I am left to assume that's the best you had to offer in defense of HP creams.

Actually Kassy, it wasn't quite worth the trouble. Wikipedia? That's about as well researched as your claims that Skinceuticals CFE contained idebenone or your assertion that Idenbenone was similar to a neuro transmitter blocker. We like discussing the product and all we ask is that you actually know what it is you're discussing.

free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 12:59 pm

Blues, I have no idea what is provoking you to have a personal vendetta against me. You repeatedly question me, and when I provide you with links you're apparently not reading them, or your last post would be unnecessary.

I have no desire to have a back and forth banter with you. I have provided you with studies and links in regard to every post you questioned me about. I have gone out of my way to share many things with you.

It's clear that you are making this personal, and I am not going to stoop to your level, in providing today's forum entertainment..

My time is much to valuable, to waste any more of it on you.

Grow up!

Thu May 08, 2008 1:15 pm

Just an idea, but why not investigate the claims of KH and its use of patented techniques with regard to hydrogen peroxide FIRST and THEN discuss those in relation to other information on HP, what you are in agreement or disagreement with, etc. Now that would actually be a collaborative discussion that would be useful.

free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 1:28 pm

I so want to believe the hype... And the testimonials just don't lie, especially from the amazing ladies here, who I know are more discerning and intelligent than most.
BUT not one of those articles cited as research actually exists.
I just looked them all up (I am part of an institution which has free access to every medical journal ever published), and half of them are cited in issues that were apparently published before those journals even existed. The only ones that seem to be legit are those that treat hyperbaric oxygen therapy on wounds--a completely different delivery system and therapy. Those legitimate articles have nothing to do with the claims of the supposed Dr. Cowen.
Also, when you look at the titles of the articles themselves, their titles in no way refer to the use of h2o2 in creams, or how to get the compound into the creams, as the research article linked to the KH website suggests.
I did a basic search myself on hydrogen peroxide and oxygen used in cream form or used topically for wound healing and free radicals and no research came up.
moreover, no kimberly cowen exists as an MD, either on the MD registry or as a published source in scholarly journals.
What's more, there is this review of the book with Charles Farr's preface on Amazon.com, which I'm inclined to believe:

Quote:

Before the reader even gets to the largely bogus contents of this bizarre tome, the front cover misleads the incautious purchaser with an announcement in the very center of the page of a foreword by Charles H. Farr, M.D., Ph.D. who supposedly was "Nominated for the Nobel Prize in Medicine, 1993"
With only the slightest effort on my part, I learned that the Nobel Prize nominations are sealed for 50 years from EVERYONE'S review and, according to the secretary of the Nobel Committee in Stockholm, Sweden, "nomination claims are by definition non-valid."
With this type of very questionable honesty at the very beginning of the book, it is unlikely that any portion of it has much scientific or practical value and I would discard the book as worthless. There is not a 0 star rating or I would give it this score instead of a 1 star. A number of the therapies suggested in the book cause me, as a physician, to shake my head in disbelief that any rational person would subject themselves or their loved ones to this inanity, not to mention potential danger.

and

Quote:

From QUACKWATCH: Here's a doctor in Oklahoma City that I've been interested in for years. He's a chelationist, but he's best known for adding hydrogen peroxide to his chelation and he calls it chetox - so he injects hydrogen peroxide intravenously into the people. He has also testified in a federal trial in Biloxi, Miss this past year, stating he had been nominated for the Nobel Prize. I got a copy of that letter, I called the person who wrote it and indeed an 83-year old journalist wrote a letter to the Nobel Foundation, stating I hereby nominate Dr. Charles Farr for the Nobel Prize.

But that doesn't make him a legitimate Nobel Prize nominee. I now have five quacks that have done that. One lady from Europe says he's been nominated seven times. They don't even know or have the ability to find out what a legitimate nominee is.

I'm not saying that her products don't work, because apparently they do, but the science behind it is not credible, at least as they have presented it.
I, for one, was genuinely interested in KH's products but after having failed to unearth any credible research supporting their claims, I probably will err on the side of caution and not use her products. I learned my lesson the hard way with copper peptides.

--avalange

p.s. skepticism is always part of the spirit of this and any internet forum in the public sphere, and in this thread it is especially pertinent.

free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 1:42 pm

I think, maybe for me anyway, the frustration on this thread comes from people immediately rejecting what they don't understand (not to mention have not used). Looking at an ingredient list and actually understanding the science behind it are really two very different things(not that I'm claiming I actually do but what I DO know is that my skin has NEVER looked better!). Its kinda like when Dermarollers were first mentioned people freaked out because they didn't see what would be beneficial about them....look how popular they are now. I think we can all agree that we all do some pretty crazy things in the name of beauty, we are adults and can decide what we do and don't put on/do to our skin. Just because you wouldn't use it doesn't mean that it doesn't work or that we haven't done research, if you don't want to use it then FINE, move on. I think we should all cut each other some slack.

free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 1:58 pm

This discussion makes me wonder to which extent it's valuable to publish ingredient lists on products, or more precisely; whether it's useful to read them for an average skin care consumer.

I wouldn't even try to vote for or against HP in skin care products, but there are quite a lot of people who avoid it, as well as there are many women here who obviously adore the KH line.

The only thing that's clear to me, is that this forum is far too good to be used to cast ridicule on a member who is opposing to a skin care concept.

free skin care · Thu May 08, 2008 2:33 pm

I can't believe that this is being continued after I respectfully asked it to stop.
For everyone concerned: No thread on EDS belongs to a select group. As long as members stay on topic and thread is not hijacked (to speak) all suggestions, opinions are welcome. Sarcasm will not be tolerated.

Locking this thread has nothing to do with my opinion regarding KH products. I actually use one of them myself. It has been locked because of the tone. IMO it is going in an unpleasant direction.

Thu May 08, 2008 6:05 pm

I concur. I am really, really sick of the petty sarcasm being spewed on the Forum.

If you can't play nice, don't play at all! Mad

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