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Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:56 am  |
| I used Epionce a few years back on the recommendation of my derm. I used the moisturizer in the jar, Renew and Fortify. I only bought it once and wasn't very impressed with it for the price. It just didn't seem different than other (cheaper) moisturizers. |
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Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:03 am |
I will add, at the time I used it, I don't recall seeing the clinical data you posted. That certainly is intriguing, especially the comparison to retin a. I use Retin a with no issues, but for those that have trouble with it, the Epionce data might make it work a try.
That study was using multiple products in the line. And the Renova users were applying a cream over it, which could buffer the Renova results somewhat. |
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Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:19 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
My personal belief is that the key is to go through spurts of inflammation, but then take significant breaks to let skin fully recover. |
This theory is essentially known as hormesis, in the scientific community. It's not widely accepted yet, but it's gaining some ground. |
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34 y.o. FlexEffect and massage. Love experimenting with DIY and botanical skin care products. Appreciate both hard science and natural approaches. Eat green smoothies + lots of raw fruit and veggies. |
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Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:57 pm |
I found a fabulous seller on eBay that sells full size products at a significant discount. I am going to purchase the Intensive Nourishing Cream, the Medical Barrier Cream, and the MelanoLyte Tx. This is the same person my samples came from, and they were delivered with a detailed Epionce instruction sheet as well.
I'll take pics and let everyone know how the line does at reducing redness, pigmentation, and inflammation. (In between ReAura and derma pen treatments of course)
| Quote: |
Intensive Nourishing Cream
SKU #715346 | SIZE: 1.7OZ / 50G
Epionce Intensive Nourishing Cream is a sophisticated, dual action cream specifically designed to nourish the skin with ultra-hydrating ingredient complexes. Cellular Targeting Technology delivers botanical ingredients deep into skin cells—effectively regenerating and strengthening the collagen and elastin support matrix of healthy skin.
Key Benefits
Lipid regenerators and peptides rebuild and fortify the skin barrier and support matrix, visibly reducing severely dry, damaged and aged skin.
Soft-focus technology provides radiant, healthy-looking skin.
Independent double blind, prospective clinical human trials prove effectiveness.
Key Ingredients
Ursolisome™
Date/Apple Complex
Potato derived peptide
Hydrolyzed yeast peptide
Meadowfoam/Flax Complex
Rose Hip/Safflower/Avocado Complex
Medical Barrier Cream
SKU #715500 | SIZE: 2.5OZ - 8.0OZ
Created for the most sensitive skin types, Epionce Medical Barrier Cream is formulated with powerful complexes that restore the skin barrier. This therapeutic product is ideal for skin that is resistant to the sensitizers and preservatives found in standard moisturizers. Medical Barrier Cream is advanced skin therapy also suited for post-procedure healing and repair.
Key Benefits
Most potent reparative. Rebuilds even the most compromised and damaged barrier.
No sensitizers and preservatives or scent.
This breakthrough formula has the highest concentration of EpiB™ complex to optimally restore the damaged barrier from aggressive skin products, procedures, and treatments.
Key Ingredients
Rose Hip/Safflower/Avocado Complex
Meadowfoam/Beeswax Extract
Date Extract
Essential Fatty Acid, Sterol and Ceramide Precursors
MelanoLyte Tx
SKU #715525 | SIZE: 50ML
The MelanoLyte Tx(tm) helps address the complex process that leads to visible irregular pigmentation without causing damaging inflammation or harm to the skin barrier. The MelanoLyte Tx is a take-home product designed for regular daily use. Please reference our "Resource Kit" for clinical study information.
Key Benefits
Minimal to no irritation.
More complete clearing of irregular pigmentation.
Prolonged results.
Less risk of recurrence.
Key Ingredients
White Water Lily
Licorice root
Peppermint
Mallow |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:43 pm |
A few quick thoughts on these products...
Epionce Eye Cream - very heavy. I would only feel comfortable using this at night unless you are VERY dry.
Epionce Intense Defense Serum - Very lightweight, and can be used under makeup.
Epionce Intensive Nourishing Cream - VERY heavy. I would only use this at night, but definitely not during the day.
Epionce MelanoLyte Tx - Very lightweight and could be worn under makeup. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:35 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Bethany, I was interested in the Intense Defense Serum - the one that was compared to Skinceuticals CEF and the TNS. |
Riley, FYI that it is a pretty lightweight, milky serum. It soaks right in, and you could definitely wear it under makeup. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:48 pm |
Riley, I was pretty surprised by some of the reactions I am getting to these products...I was expecting something less irritating. I am going to finish up the products that I bought because I like the anti-inflammatory aspects, but I am pretty sure that I will not continue with so many products from this line. But we'll see for sure in a few more months.
Btw, I am definitely not giving up my Environ. It is one of a very few lines that has caused me zero problems. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:05 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
FYI..for those wondering, I am getting no product kickbacks for sharing my reviews. I have purchased all my products from a seller on eBay or Lovelyskin.com and have receipts for all items.  |
Bethany, your reviews are entirely to objective and credible to suggest any hint of seller involvement. |
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Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:43 am |
I admire her to adding that statement, it adds credibility.
BFG |
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Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:26 pm |
Sharing a post I found from BFG in 2009... This made me feel very comfortable with my combined Epionce/Environ protocol. However, when you add in the pigmentation lightening aspect, I feel I am using WAY too many products, sigh.
| Barefootgirl wrote: |
I've been communicating with a skincare professional (don't know all her credentials) who works in Dr. Thornfeldt's organization (medical expert on inflammation).
I asked her for advice on achieving the optimal balance between irritation which is conducive to skin rejuvenation and irration which turns into counterproductive inflammation.
In her response, she has referred to Epionce products which I expected since that is the company they are affiliated with - so I am planning to either use Epionce products or possibly look for similar formulations.
I find this information helpful, so I have decided to share it:
"We generally suggest using an Epionce Renewal product with retinoid use. The Renewal formulations have two distinct functions: to help calm inflammatory factors (that contribute to chronic inflammation) and to help build and strengthen the skin barrier. The retinoid encourages cell renewal by exfoliation, which induces an inflammatory response, but using the Renewal will help calm the process. So, think of the retinoid as a type of “mini chemical peel.” Generally, we suggest alternating Lytic use with retinoid use; for example – use the retinoid at night in place of Lytic; use the Lytic in the morning instead of the retinoid. Using a Lytic and retinoid at the same time might be too irritating for the skin.
L-Ascorbic acid would be applied in the same way, alternating application times. I suggest applying the vitamin C in the morning, and the Lytic at night time, followed by a Renewal product both AM and PM."
Hope this is helpful, BF
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=34946&starred_only=true
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Fri Aug 02, 2013 11:01 am |
| RussianSunshine wrote: |
What is the difference between the Epionce Medical Barrier Cream ($46) and the Epionce Intense Defense Serum ($136) in terms of barrier repair? Can the latter be used right after an aggressive procedure? The IDS seems to be their star product, but it would be good to know if it is worth the $$$.
They are both good for oily skin types.
I am wondering if using Renewal Lite Facial Lotion ($94) would be even better for someone with oily skin.
Thank you! |
RS,
Epionce has 6 groups of products - I put a summary by each one:
- Cleanse & Prepare (cleansers, toners)
- Correct & Boost (acne, texture, pigmentation, wrinkles)
- Renew & Fortify (barrier repair, hydration, antioxidant)
- Protect & Prevent (sunscreen)
- Post Treatment Care (barrier repair for sensitized skin)
- Professional Use (peels)
I think the Intense Defense Serum is more of an adjunct to the other Renew & Fortify barrier repair products, based on reading the Epionce blogs. They just came out with this, and I am not sure if it can be used after an aggressive procedure...I may call and ask because I am curious as well.
| Quote: |
This highly advanced anti-aging serum stimulates skin rejuvenation to help reverse fine lines, wrinkles, roughness and uneven skin tone while improving firmness, elasticity and texture. In only 1 week fine lines & wrinkles were visibly improved 94% better than leading anti-aging physician-strength serums. |
| Quote: |
| Part of the “Renew & Fortify” category of the Epionce product line, the Intense Defense Serum enhances the protective antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activity in the skin. While it is designed for anti-aging, the ingredients in the Intense Defense Serum also help to minimize the signs of rosacea, acne, or unwanted pigmentation spots. The Intense Defense Serum will help to enhance the results you are experiencing with Lytic or MelanoLyte products. Apply the Lytic or MelanoLyte product first, then apply the Intense Defense Serum. You can also alternate application. For example, apply the Intense Defense in the morning and a “Correct & Boost” product before bed. Of course any of these products should be used with a Renewal facial product for your skin type as well! |
For barrier repair on day to bay basis, the Renewal products are the best option...The Renewal Lite Lotion probably just has some lipids removed since it is for oily/combo skin. I haven't tried this, but plan on it in the future.
| Quote: |
| Renew & Fortify products deeply penetrate through the skin barrier to reach targeted cells to strengthen, repair and fortify the skin. Daily use helps reduce the appearance of fine lines, wrinkles and hyperpigmentation while strengthening the skin barrier and reducing inflammatory factors. The result is smoother, softer, hydrated skin that functions at its optimum. |
The Medical Barrier Cream appears to be more focused on post-procedure skin (or ongoing compromised barriers). This is lighter than I expected, but I am not sure it is the best option for daily usage for oily skins. But definitely a good option for people using the ReAura.
| Quote: |
| Optimal hydration for dry, scaly rough skin that is compromised from skin conditions or resurfacing procedures. Formulated without topical sensitizers, making it ideal for atopic skin. Improves barrier function. Apply daily as needed. |
The Lytic products are part of the “Correct & Boost” aspect of the line, and help unclog pores, reduce redness and smooth out skin texture. But they do not really appear to correct the skin barrier as the Renewal products do. There are 3 basic strengths - the Lite, the regular, and the Plus. The Sport has about the same strength as the Plus, but less lipids for super oily skin or humid climates. FYI that these are strong stuff...I actually got a rash on my neck when I put the regular strength on my neck by mistake.  However, my BIL has had zero irritation from the Plus, so I guess it just depends on your level of sensitivity.
BTW, there is a clinical study on the Lytics being used on eye wrinkles, which I thought was very interesting.
https://www.epionce.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/3_ClinicalStudy_EpionceReducesPeriocularWrinkles.pdf
Link to all 12 clinical studies:
https://www.epionce.com/resources/
FYI that all this info is slightly spread out over the Epionce web page (I have read all the blog posts, clinicals, etc.) but the best summarized listing of the product purpose/benefits I found was this product catalog, and it contains info that was not elsewhere on the website:
http://www.epionce.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/ProductCatalogue-2013.pdf
HTH!! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Aug 03, 2013 3:10 pm |
I discovered today there is a site called DermTube with videos of skin researchers presenting their research, etc.
Some on barrier repair, when I get time, I hope to watch them.
BFG |
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Fri Aug 09, 2013 2:04 am |
I have ordered DR Thornfeldt's book , it should get here sometime within the week.
I ordered it as I would really like to know more on his ideas relating to the skin barrier, it may well change my rolling protocol.
I dont want to buy any more products unless totally necessary!
When it arrives I will let you all know what it says( well a little précis!!)
Thank you Bethany for letting us know about his book  |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:38 am |
I have just learned from his book that one has to apply 2 layers of sunscreen (SPF30). The 2nd layer should be applied 30 minutes after the 1st one 
And zinc oxide and homesalate are the safest suncreen ingredients. Although they may cause comedo formation. |
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Fri Aug 09, 2013 8:23 am |
Dr Thornfeldt also says that increased hydration does not correlate with increased barrier function: your moisturizer must include barrier repairing and optimizing ingredients.
Now it makes sense why using a HA moisturizing serum is not enough. A moisturizer must have the 3 key barrier lipids that bethany mentioned above.
One more important note is that, according to Dr T, visible reversal of aging skin is not possible if the skin is constantly inflammed and the skin barrier is disrupted. That explains why using only Vitamin C and Retin A is not enough. |
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Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:42 pm |
All,
Here is the initial book review, since I know there are some people interested in what it contains. I will share more info on each chapter later, including some info I personally found interesting.
Book review: New Ideal in Skin Health: Separating Fact from Fiction (Bourne, Krista; Thornfeldt, Carl)
In a nutshell, this was a very extensive read which caters to professionals thinking about starting a med spa, adding services to an existing practice, or trying to decide which skincare products to carry in their office. It contains a LOT of information…some beneficial now, as well as being a reference guide for ingredients/actives (their uses, clinicals, etc.). I think there is something for everyone in this book (meaning skin-focused consumers), but I don’t think the book is for everyone simply because not everyone likes to wade through tons of info. If you are looking for a book that says “buy this and this,” this is NOT that book. Dr. Thornfeldt presents info on many different options, along with many references to stats and clinical studies so that you can make up your own mind as to what choices you want to make.
This book was also NOT an advertisement for his products or services….”Epionce” appeared one time in reference to a skin barrier repair study, but no other Epionce products were discussed. However, in the protocol section I was able to figure out which products he was using, which I appreciated as an Epionce user.
This book is also so extensive in data that I can’t send you “a quick summary” in PM, though I can tell you this:
- He views maintaining the skin barrier as absolutely critical - without barrier repair/protection everything else is for naught (except sunscreen) . But if you focus on the barrier, you can actually reverse extrinisic aging.
- You need 3 components for barrier repair – ceramides, cholesterol, and free fatty acids in a ratio of 3:1:1. Forty-five minutes after a barrier injury, restoring the three key lipid ratio and the function of the permeability barrier results in over 90 percent recovery as measured by TEWL.
- Anyone using traditional moisturizers, acids, retinols, or doing microdermabrasion, facial scrubs, etc. is damaging their barrier and needs to focus on barrier repair.
- Most cosmecutical/drugstore products do not contain the appropriate level of actives, nor have they been typically been clinically tested in the final formulations nor the appropriate human body part.
- There are 9 complete steps for delivery of an active at the right level to the right place in the skin. Just because you slather it on, doesn't mean it actually gets absorbed.
- Clinical studies can be misleading. The bottom line is to look for the p-value in the Results section. If the p-value is higher than 0.05, then the clinical data is not scientifically strong enough to support claims that the product works.
- The skin is an indicator of what else is happening inside the body. Various skin issues should be telling you that there are other aspects of your health that you should be considering.
To sum it up, this book tells you how to take care of your skin for the long term, how to find the best products available (and the criteria to judge them against), and helps identify the best solutions for various skin problems....whether it is a topical, an oral supplement, or a procedure.
More to come on the chapters below....
Section I Welcome to Esthetics
Chapter 1 Defining Roles
Section II Understanding the Skin
Chapter 2 Skin Basics
Chapter 3 Application of a New Understanding of Skin Health
Section III Cosmeceuticals
Chapter 4 Cosmeceuticals— OTC/ Prescription/ Professional
Chapter 5 Cosmeceutical Ingredients— What are the Claims, What are the Facts?
Chapter 6 Cosmeceuticals: Botanical Ingredients
Chapter 7 Topical Delivery of Cosmeceuticals
Chapter 8 Controversial Ingredients
Section IV Application
Chapter 9 Putting it into Practice: Choosing the Right Products
Chapter 10 Putting it into Practice: Other Therapeutic Options
Chapter 11 Putting it into Practice: Treatment Protocols
Chapter 12 Putting it into Practice: Success Tools
http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Ideal-Skin-Health/dp/1932633693/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1376267087&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=thornfeldt |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:44 am |
FYI that I am going to either email or call Epionce this week with some product questions. If anyone has anything they would like me to ask, please let me know.
Questions on my list:
1. Do the Renewal products have the same 3:1:1 ratio as the Medical Barrier Cream?
2. Can you apply the Melanolyte over the Lytic, or do they have to be used at opposite ends of the day?
3. Is the Melanolyte Pro mask used primarily for exfoliation purposes? |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:32 am |
| 10Sylvia5 wrote: |
Just a quick one Bethany from me,
How to incorporate Vit C and A when using the lytic products.
TIA |
Ok! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:34 pm |
| *dream* wrote: |
I'm in Australia and it appears that Epionce products can't be shipped here, and they don't have Epionce experts in Australian unfortunately.
I did find the Epionce Medical Barrier Cream on a site similar to amazon that we have here, and I've ordered it, but the price is $117!!!
Since I am interested in other products by Epionce, I found a UK site that sells the entire line. They say they can ship to Australia, but for example, the Epionce Medical Barrier Cream would be approx $85 Australian dollars when converted from British pounds, plus shipping (up to weight capacity of 2000 grams) is an additional $51 Australian dollars, and that's without the tracking option
Sigh. I guess when I repair my barrier more with the Medical Barrier Cream i'll buy the lytic (spelling?) gel for my acne.
Ok rant over lol.
*dream* |
What about eBay? I can put you in touch with someone that sells via eBay, and the only markup should be the currency conversion via PayPal. PM me if you want the contact info. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:19 am |
Bethany,
It was the renewal cream I got, but I do have rather dry skin with a tendency to sensitivity and can get tight and flaky. So I went for the cream rather than the lotion.
HTH |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:07 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| *dream* wrote: |
I'm in Australia and it appears that Epionce products can't be shipped here, and they don't have Epionce experts in Australian unfortunately.
I did find the Epionce Medical Barrier Cream on a site similar to amazon that we have here, and I've ordered it, but the price is $117!!!
Since I am interested in other products by Epionce, I found a UK site that sells the entire line. They say they can ship to Australia, but for example, the Epionce Medical Barrier Cream would be approx $85 Australian dollars when converted from British pounds, plus shipping (up to weight capacity of 2000 grams) is an additional $51 Australian dollars, and that's without the tracking option
Sigh. I guess when I repair my barrier more with the Medical Barrier Cream i'll buy the lytic (spelling?) gel for my acne.
Ok rant over lol.
*dream* |
What about eBay? I can put you in touch with someone that sells via eBay, and the only markup should be the currency conversion via PayPal. PM me if you want the contact info. |
All, I am getting a number of PM's for this info, so I went through my Paypal receipts and found the email address.
I will email them right now and see if they will ship to Australia so that you don't all have to do it individually. I'll keep you posted! |
Good news...she will ship to Australia! She is going to forward me a price list, and I will PM it (and the contact info) out to those that requested it. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:10 pm |
All,
You probably know I am a fan of full disclosure and unbiased feedback, so I wanted to share this conversation with you. I believe EDS is about helping our fellow members...whether it is working through skin issues, sharing research, or finding a supplier when needed.
| Quote: |
Hi there! I previously bought some Epionce products from you via ebay and was very pleased with my purchase....so much so that I have been sharing my happiness with some fellow skin lovers on an international skin forum.
I have a number of people that are looking to purchase that are located in Australia, and the shipping from the UK and US Epionce retailers is grossly overpriced. Would you be willing to ship to Australia if I sent people to you?
Thanks so much! |
| Quote: |
Hi Bethany,
Here is the most current price list! Thank you in advance for the referrals. For each person who purchases from your referral, I will credit you $15 toward product! Take care! |
| Quote: |
| Thanks, but no need to compensate me in any way....I would prefer that these people just be able to get the Epionce products at affordable prices because I feel they are so beneficial. Just take care of them, and I will keep sending people your way! |
The price list applies for both US and International purchases and shipments, so please PM me if you want the price list and purchasing details. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:29 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
All,
You probably know I am a fan of full disclosure and unbiased feedback, so I wanted to share this conversation with you. I believe EDS is about helping our fellow members...whether it is working through skin issues, sharing research, or finding a supplier when needed.
| Quote: |
Hi there! I previously bought some Epionce products from you via ebay and was very pleased with my purchase....so much so that I have been sharing my happiness with some fellow skin lovers on an international skin forum.
I have a number of people that are looking to purchase that are located in Australia, and the shipping from the UK and US Epionce retailers is grossly overpriced. Would you be willing to ship to Australia if I sent people to you?
Thanks so much! |
| Quote: |
Hi Bethany,
Here is the most current price list! Thank you in advance for the referrals. For each person who purchases from your referral, I will credit you $15 toward product! Take care! |
| Quote: |
| Thanks, but no need to compensate me in any way....I would prefer that these people just be able to get the Epionce products at affordable prices because I feel they are so beneficial. Just take care of them, and I will keep sending people your way! |
The price list applies for both US and International purchases and shipments, so please PM me if you want the price list and purchasing details. |
.B – ethany
.E
eT - hical
.H
sA – inthood!!!!
.N
.Y -ay!!!
A privilege to know you. |
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Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:40 pm |
Bethany,
Very honourable  |
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46 got (PMD,Caci,QuasarMD,Tria , skin spatula) Using, environ , myfawnie serums, lacsal, retinol, GHk probably more but too embarrased to say |
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