bio-identical hormones
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free skin care · Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:52 pm

I just turned 50 this year and am not in menopause but rather in that awful zone before (at least it feels that way to me) called perimenopause. After taking a blood hormone panel confirming my hormone levels, my practitioner prescribed .5 mg estrogen daily and 100 mg progesterone cycled for 3 weeks every month which I have been taking for the past 2 years; both administered by sublingual troche (sort of like a gummy bear) placed under the tongue.

The best way to describe the symptoms I had is a mean PMS that just didn't let up! (I've always had PMS which gradually worsened in my mid 40's.) Additional symptoms were depression, forgetfulness, foggy brain function, constant wakening at night, night sweats, hot flashes, anxiety, low energy, body aches, no or low libido, and the list goes on.

About this time bioidentical hormones were being talked about more (i.e. Suzanne Somers, Dr. Elizabeth Vliet, etc.) and women spoke of finally finding some relief and even feeling youthful again. Several things convinced me to give it a try: I read and was also told by physicians, that the general age group of the women in the WHI study were post-menopausal and that would have affected the results of the study; the hormone dosage with HRT was even lower than BCP's; maintaining hormone levels lessened the risk of bone loss and cardiovascular disease. But to be honest, I was so desperate to just feel better.

It's been two years and I can honestly say it's helped me with most of my symptoms, I feel sane .... well, most of the time. I'm not sure how long I will remain on it but it's working for now.

free skin care · Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:51 pm

OK, I just have to chime in here. I do not believe the term "Bio-Identical Hormones" is a marketing term. It is a term that distinguishes lab-synthesized hormones like the appallingly "cruel" Premarin from those more closely aligned with hormones produced by the human body. I agree though that they may not be truly identical.

I have never had a hot flash, a night sweat or any other symptom of menopause. I am 5 years post-meno and I use BHRT for its anti-aging benefits.

After studying a number of texts, papers, peer-reviewed studies and what-not, and having my hormone levels measured by Z-Labs, I determined that the appropriate treatment for me would be progesterone and estriol. (My mother passed from BC.) Estriol has been shown in some studies to be chemo-preventive. Interestingly, the last test I had showed that there was a very high amount of circulating estradiol in my system, which the lab suggested was due to the fact my estrogen receptors had been blocked by the estriol. (estradiol or E1, is the form of estrogen believed responsible for the development of some breast cancers. It is 1000 times stronger that estriol or E3.)

My doctor concurred that this regimen would be entirely appropriate. She is in full support of BHRT and recommends it for her female patients.

Hormones keep us young. Not just the sex hormones, but those produced by the adrenals, pituitary and thyroid, etc. I truly feel that I am benefiting greatly from their use.

Oh yes, to answer Arym's questions there...I have been on BHRT for 12 years. I use estriol cream on my arm in the a.m. and progesterone cream in the p.m. Estradiol makes my hair fall out as it converts to testosterone in my body and then to DHT. I discovered this when using Tri-est. Most doctors will tell you that "estrogen helps keep your hair growing healthily" after meno but it depends on what estrogen. I have posted elsewhere about this. A lot of women on E1 patches are wondering why their hair is falling out.

free skin care · Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:09 am

I will see what I can find on DVT. I would imagine that the risk is less but still there. However, that's just a guess. Here's a very good article by a board certified Ozzie anti-aging doc insupport of BHRT:

http://www.antiagingdoctor.co.za/?page_id=7

free skin care · Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:31 pm

I'm an RN, wellness coach, and I do research for film producers/writers etc. (mostly medical oriented & I def know how to read and interpret the literature). Anytime I hear the FDA as a source of validation I want to laugh. HRT and menopause is a hot topic (pun yeah it works) and in medicine is it takes an OVERWHELMING amount of proof to dispel myths & misinformation. Medicine wants to take a one size fits all approach to menopause and give every woman the same pill and that's simply not going to work. They also want to go by antiquated lab tests that will tell a woman her hormone levels are fine and normal when she's overwhelmed with depression (take an antidepressant!) with uncomfortable symptoms like hot flashes.

Christine Northrup is one of the most well informed doctors about menopause and female health and women should consult her books along with sites like Women to Women. I couldn't begin to write a post with recommendations because everyone is 100% different. I will say that I've used Bi-Est and progesterone for about six years (vaginally) and I don't have any symptoms. The only symptom I ever DID have was vaginal dryness, but I don't want to dry up like a prune on the outside either.

It makes me laugh hysterically when I hear doctors put Suzanne Somers down, she LOOKS FABULOUS come on! And according to her she feels fabulous too.

I've been a participant of the Harvard nurses study that has been studying woman's health for 20 years, I do have to say that filling in their questionnaires over the years has given me even more insight on health, mine and others. For example I've checked "No I never eat" on page after page of questions about food (all processed). Over the last couple of years they've started including more questions about habits related to eating REAL WHOLE FOOD which is what my diet consists of. The reason I mention that here is to illustrate how terribly skewed most literature is, there is simply no control groups in studies consisting of women who are actually eating real food, exercising, not drinking coffee & alcohol, not eating sugar etc. (like that terrible Suzanne Somers lady).

I would suggest that people see a female GYN whose specializes in bio-identical compounded hormones. Whether or not you agree with the definition the compounded hormones are formulated to more closely match what you're lacking and to relieve your specific symptoms. All of this is just my opinion.

free skin care · Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:11 am

Mishey wrote:

Keliu when you say prolong the life of pets by up to 15 years, are they saying 15 years on top of what an animal would normally live for? That would be the best thing ever invented to me. I hate losing my beloved dogs with their short life spans. Sad

Yes, that is what they're saying. The treatment is available now - I think it's injections but I'm not sure. The segment was on "Mornings with Kerri-Anne" on Channel 9.

free skin care · Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:30 pm

Josee wrote:

secretly wrote:

That TV commercial with the Canadian talking about how she would have died in Canada because of her brain tumor but she came to the States for world class care makes my head spin. How did she pay for it is what I want to know, she must be very rich? I would love to know who is paying for the TV spot. Yes we do have world class care but if you have any pre-existing conditions, your under-insured, or you simply can't afford the deductibles YOU DON'T GET THAT CARE.

Wow I have not watched the commercial but I am livid!

NO ONE dies in Canada because of the waiting lists. If you have a life-threatening condition, you are treated promptly. For e.g. in Quebec, which is famous for being the worst of the provinces, usually there's a delay of 3 weeks only between diagnosis and surgery for gynecological cancers (this is the figure I know for sure).

A friend of mine broke his hand and he needed surgery to put everything in place and he got it with a 3-day delay.

Now yes, things that can wait... you usually have to wait. A friend of mine had to wait over 6 months to get his ACL (knee ligament) repaired but there's no consequence really from waiting.
Yes, if you are a young, healthy person that goes to the ER with a UTI, you'll probably have to wait 2 hours (or more!) to be seen by the doctor (you do get seen by the triage nurse right away).

BUT, having trained in both countries...in the US I've seen women whose insurance wouldn't pay for the best (and more expensive) drugs for her chemo. Two of them actually died. Would they have died with the better drug? Maybe yes, but I still felt horrible about it.
I've seen women whose insurance does not cover certain laparoscopic surgeries (they're more expensive) and have to get an open one, with the extra risk of infection and complications.
I've seen women with diabetes and hypertension who are uninsurable and don't qualify for medicaid. So they're just there, and ask you to "patch them up" as cheaply as possible since they can't afford any better.

Even though Canada has less doctors per capita and spends less money per capita than the US, it has a longer life expectancy and a lower infant mortality. Granted these things are determined by a lot more than health care.

I am personally quite against a 2-tier system because I believe that access to health care is a universal right and thus we should all have the same access to treatments and hospitals.

End of speech Smile

We don't/won't all get the same access in American if the system becomes "universal". Will Doctors in the system get the same care aas someone off the street. NO! I was with a surgeon for almost 4 years- when something went wrong in either families we were at the top of the list for care and quickly! and knowing someone helps. People come across the border to America for our health care due to quicker access, availability and success of surgery, etc. I broke my wrist - terrible break and I was in surgery in less than 12 hours. But I had good insurance. America was set up for it's freedoms and capitalism is what has made the country what it is.
Is health care a right or a priviledge? In America the government officials will ALWAYS have better care than anyone else so is that fair? Shouldn't we all have that access to care? I'm not sure, but I dont want someone telling me what my care should be or that I may have to jump a border to get it. I don't want to be dictated that I can or cannot have something done based on my age or time constraints because a government told me so. The principles on which America is founded are not based on Socialistic principles - it's about freedom.
End of speech

free skin care · Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:48 am

Hi Aprile,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post at length. It's always good to exchange ideas and bring different points of view!

aprile wrote:

First off, the FDA has a terrible reputation of releasing dangerous drugs onto the marketplace before they've been adequately tested only to have to yank them at a later date.

Well that's for sure, we can remember HRT and how everyone was happy to jump the bandwagon!

aprile wrote:

Someone needs to tell us what the FDA has done to determine whether or not they are safe. Have they ordered the pharmaceutical companies to perform ANY large scale studies on the bio-identicals? Short answer ~ No.

The thing is that it's not the FDA's mandate to do that. Companies interested in getting the FDA's "OK" are the ones that have to fund their own RCTs to prove efficacy and safety. If BHRT companies are so sure about their efficacy and safety they should be willing to do these trials, but they haven't. In that sense, I don't consider them any more (un)scrupulous than big pharmaceutical companies, especially given all the unproven claims the boast about. It's sad, but it's very hard to find companies that truly care about the wellbeing of people Sad

aprile wrote:

Well, given the fact that the studies that were performed by the WHI proved that conventional HRT was in fact dangerous, that would lead me to believe that it was the chemical MIS-configuration of those drugs that caused the problem. Take for instance the drug Premarin, created in a laboratory from the urine of pregnant mares. The problem with this equation is this ~ the human body does not contain the hormone, Equillon. Should there be no problem putting this hormone into the human body? You bet there is! Obviously, there was a huge problem with that drug.

The problem is not really because the source of the hormones was animal. The problem was the ESTROGENIC effect of those drugs, which BHRT hormones also have.

Women who "naturally" have an hormonal imbalance (or for e.g. obese women who naturally have more external convertion to estrogen), have an increased risk of gynecological cancers, including breast cancer, and stroke, and other diseases. And they are not taking external hormones is really bio-identical hormones who are doing the change.

As we age, our cell reproduction slows down. This is actually good because since we're old, our cell division doesn't work as well, so there are more chances of cells "mutating" or becoming abnormal after division. Thankfully, our immune system (among other things) "catches" these cells and kills them most of the time. Sometimes they don't die and so we have ... cancer.
Now if you take estrogens, whether they're bio-identical or not, you will stimulate cell division in certain tissues that are susceptible to estrogen (e.g. breast cancer). So by stimulating cell division you're increasing the rate at which cell divide and thus increasing the chances of abnormal cell division. Increasing the chances of abnormal cell division will increase your risk of getting cancer, just because the more abnormal cells you have, the more chances that the immune system will not be able to "kill them all".

aprile wrote:

While I agree with you about the disastrous results of the WHI trial, natural hormones or bio-identiccals shouldn't be lumped into the same category as those chemical based drugs.

The problem is that BHRT has estrogenic effects. And estrogenic stimulation, by different methods including bioidentical hormones (though in vitro) has shown stimulation of cancer cells.

So given the fact that substances that have estrogenic effects are associated with cancer and other adverse effects, unfortunately the sensible thing to assume from a public health perspective is that BHRT will have the same effects as other estrogenic compounds (esp. since when there's increased natural estrogenic load there's also increased risk of cancer). It would be irresponsible to say that the're safe, though people are free to choose their course of action.

aprile wrote:

I know you are saying that you would never ever take any product containing any form of estrogen. However, at age 35 I doubt you are at the point of having terrible symptoms. If you are, please forgive me. Assuming you're not at that point yet, you might rethink your stance if you've lost your memory, your hair, your sex drive, you're retaining tons of water, you're short-tempered, depressed, have anxiety, a hard time sleeping, you're exhausted, have achy bones ~ PLUS your face is beginning to drop from a lack of testosterone.

I don't have any terrible symptoms (thank God!) but I have patients who have terrible symptoms, plus I saw many patients with terrible symptoms during my menopause fellowship. Personally, the decision for me it's easy because I have a strong family history of breast cancer, including my mom and grandma, have lost many family members to breast cancer, so I wouldn't want to risk it. I have never even taken OCP.

As a doctor, I have had to put less than 1% of the women on HRT that I have treated. Most of the times, we find alternative treatments and the women are satisfied. Of course, it is a LOT more intensive than prescribing HRT or BHRT, since you really need to see the woman every week and re-evaluate, and tweak things here and there until you have controlled everything. That's also why many doctors would rather prescribe HRT than try to work out with the woman the best non-hormonal solution. And I've never lost a patient, so they must be happy since they don't switch to someone else!

Yes, there are things that no matter what, you cannot achieve without HRT and in the end is the decision of each women whether they want to take the risks or not.

One of my mom's best friends died last year of estrogen-positive cancer. Unfortunately the cancer spread everywhere and she ended up with an inoperable brain tumor that did not respond to any treatment.

One of the reasons she took HRT was because she liked the "one-pill" solution and because HRT gave her a glow in her skin that all her friends (including my mom) envied! She consulted me about HRT and I told her what I thought and I said that if I were her, I would try other things, but that without hormones it was hard to keep the skin glow. Well, she knew the risks and still chose to take it and then when she got sick she was still not regretting her decision to take HRT.

So we all have different things we want in life, different things are important to different people, so in the end, as long as the choice is doing fully knowing the benefits and risks, then it's an educated choice. Smile

All the best,
Josee

free skin care · Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:18 pm

Please note that there is a safety net in US already. If a personal income is below a particular level health care is provided for free. Once you get above this level you are expected to pay.

Health care discussion boils down to two basic principles which are not really health care related. One focuses on individuals the second one on collective.

From individualistic stand point one is responsible for his own being etc. On the other hand from collective point of view needs are expected to be satisfied at someone else expense. There is no free lunch and in order to get something for "free" it should be taken from someone else. Anything so called "free" comes with strings attached, and overall level of life declines. It applies to health care as well.

When individual rights are in focus those come with individual responsibilities. Which include rights to succeed or to fail. There are no guarantees. US was founded on these principles.

free skin care · Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:35 pm

AnnieR I think you should take the advice from above (can't recall who suggested it) and find compounding pharmacies in your area and then call to find out what doctors are prescribing it.

I had to read and summarize a TOME for a client, The Divided Welfare State by Jacob Hacker, while it was very dry it was very informative. He talks about all of our entitlement programs and how they came to be. America's system is a mix of direct state spending which is regulated by govt.(such as Social Security/Medicare) and private spending like employer plans/pensions that are encouraged by tax subsidies (like tax-advantaged 401(k) plans and health insurance).

Health care is provided/funded primarily by private employer-based insurance programs and also heavily subsidized (which encourages those with deep pockets who are being treated favorably by tax subsidies to put huge money into fighting any changes). And the old and the poor are covered by govt. programs.

Universal health care is very difficult to get through Congress because of the huge huge system of private health care, whose stakeholders tend to risk their enormous profits. Hacker didn't discuss the role of Big Pharm but he did talk about how the AMA has resisted any change because doctors have historically wanted to charge more for those who can pay more. But that's all changed because a lot of doctors now support health care change because they don't want to push papers and employ enormous offices of insurance de-tanglers and they want to provide the care they think a patient needs (not have to check that their insurance co. will cover it). The other huge consideration is that universal care has to be a mandate because if a few don't opt in then they will be the ones to keep costs artificially high (for example someone without insurance in a pool of insured people gets hit by a bus and is in a trauma unit for 3 months without insurance, then all insured end up paying for his care). So how to mandate all be insured has been a difficult thing, not everyone has the same financial ability.

The health care proposal that's being worked on has provisions like, if you already have health insurance that you like you can keep it but you'll pay less because the point of all of this is to get rid of the fluff that is costing everyone so much while continually going up in cost, while making a few very very rich. Obama has said he's not going to sign anything that doesn't lower costs. Govt. bureaucrats aren't going to be deciding your care (right now insurance bureaucrats are) instead the plan is to provide a "public option" that would help the uninsured get coverage and keep the insurance companies "honest."

They want to reform the system by expanding coverage, improving quality, lowering costs, honoring patient choice and holding insurance companies accountable.

The other aspect is to promote responsible science and technological innovation ahead of ideology when it comes to medical research (rather than allowing pharm etc. to beat and massage the data so that they can push their drugs for trumped up illnesses). And so that they can insure that innovations and medical science are credible and everyone has equal access (as possible).

Finally the plan is to promote smart preventative care, like cancer screenings and better nutrition, and make critical improvements/changes in electronic health records & technology to reduce errors and redundancy in care and tests that's enormously costly.

I like to actually read the literature and make up my own mind about issues. So I hope that some of my reading is helpful here too.

free skin care · Mon Aug 24, 2009 7:23 am

Wow, the debate carried on as lively as ever!!

I disappeared, because I'd been feeling so great, I'd been running around and had hardly been on the computer.

I can't believe that after years of trying the medical industries drugs with horrifying side-effects and NO HELP, all I needed to do was pop a bit of progesterone cream on. Yes, I got the DIM, and progesterone cream, and literally the day I put the cream on, my energy went through the roof. I wee'd and wee'd until all my fluid dropped off (holy sh**! I'm slim!), and I felt GREAT right through my PMS time - when usually I'm bed-ridden and writhing around in agony. No migraines, no foggy brain - I literally used to feel my brain was water-logged from all the fluid retention - no mood swings (or far less than usual
Bad Grin

) - and no fatigue! It's truly been amazing. I did a big show in NYC without feeling severely fatigued and paranoid about my puffy face/body or being loaded to the gills on painkillers.

That is until a few days ago, when still trying to work out how to dose myself, I thought I should stop using the cream to allow my period to come at it's usual time. And as progesterone and estrogen naturally drop off before your period, and reading about how to use the cream, I thought I'd stop... Immediate migraine, obscene bloating, immense fatigue all set in at their usual level the next day. I'm bed-ridden now with unbearable body pain and migraine, which is what brought me back here!!!

Perhaps next month I'll try using the cream right up until I get my period. I've read it can prevent it coming, but I'm sure that if your progesterone is low enough as I believe mine to be, then it'll come just fine.

I can't believe how dramatically it helped me. I had to check with my husband if it was my PMS time, because neither of us could tell! I've found my long-sought answer here, and just need to find the best way to use it. I'm not sure how instrumental the DIM has been for me, as we have a lot of cruciferous veges in our diet...but it definitely hasn't hurt!

Anyway, I can't thank the ladies here enough for bringing up this subject, and putting me on the quest again for health. I'd been so disillusioned with scores of doctors approaches. It's amazing how my body while on the progesterone cream was in nowhere near as much inflammation and pain as usual at this time of the month. I'd love to know how anti depressants (which is the first thing a doctor will give you, is meant to help with the myriad of problems someone with pmdd has). Next thing, they'll put you on the pill. How is that going to be better than finding out what is happening with your hormones? Putting a generic bunch of fake hormones into your system instead? Then the diuretic, which just treats ONE of the symptoms? Aaarrrggghhh!!! I can't believe I didn't find this earlier!

Something is seriously wrong with the medical industry. They are not interested in helping the cause of one's ailments, and sorry Josee, I really got carried away on the other thread in the lounge where you suggested anti-depressants are a great treatment for someone suffering PMDD. Really ladies, the truth is, they've repackaged Prozac by naming it Sarafem, and doctors are touting it as the new miracle PMDD treatment. When the MOST it can do is put you in a slightly better mood while your pain and bloating and migraines and fatigue is happening. Bizarre.

free skin care · Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:17 am

this is interesting; excerpt—

Bio-Identical Hormone Replacement Therapy -
The Bigger Picture

By Dr. Andrew Jones, Medical Director
Women's Health Institute of Texas

It’s something that’s been staring doctors in the face for decades, but few have taken any particular notice. Almost 60% of all migraines in women coincide with their menstrual cycle. Many of these women experiencing “menstrual migraines” had their first bout with this disease soon after taking (or quitting) birth control pills or following childbirth.

http://www.migraineblog.com/migraine_blog/2007/12/bio-identical-h.html

free skin care · Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:11 pm

I posted part of this on another thread and I am putting it all here….I hope that by sharing this someone else may be helped.

I am 55 and had no menopause issues that I was aware of until recently. I now have been on bio identical hormones for two months. I am working with a compound pharmacy which has a counseling nurse that works with me and my doctor. Although I am new at this process I have read about it for years. I am currently in the process of tweaking my prescription to get things exactly right for me. I am fortunate to have this service available to me because there is so much misinformation every where you turn.

I had to attend a three hour lecture/training (free) session before they would allow me to work with this program. They want people knowledgeable about hormones so they can be a part of the team with your doctor and then nurse at the compounding pharmacy. I decided after the session to proceed further. I filled out pages of answers to questions about my health as it relates to hormones. The pharmacist and nurse said blood work is not as helpful with hormones and that saliva testing is better. There is more of an expense with the saliva testing they recommend so it is only used in the tougher cases. I was told that with answering all the questions and having three hours consult it should fine point the type of treatment that will be best for me. They have been doing this for 13 years and come highly recommended from other women and physicians in the area. So to answer your question blood work doesn't seem the best for hormone issues.

Once I went through the consultation and got the hormone treatment tweaked I had great results. I was having hot flashes constantly……10 to 15 upon rising. The day after I started taking estroil and progesterone my hot flashes stopped….that was almost three weeks ago. I have more energy than I have had in 15 years, and sleep way better. Once of the nicest things I have noticed is the skin on my hands has DRASTICALLY changed for the better. I am not doing anything different to my hands and first just started on progesterone….I started noticing the skin change after three weeks on progesterone. Then when the estroil was added the nice change has gotten better. This is what I am now taking estroil 0.05 emol cream vaginally and then progesterone 3% 1ml daily and biest 0.5 no more than ½ a ml daily. I am also taking DHEA 10 mg daily(start that tomorrow). The bottom line is I am feeling really good and my skin is really looking great….I had no idea what effect hormones….or lack of hormones would have on your body until I experienced it. Very Happy

free skin care · Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:48 pm

rileygirl wrote:

Toby wrote:

And I wouldn't dare give up the light and serum either...I am going to get greedy about holding on to what works Laughing

Also I need to add the pictures I posted of my forehead change with the wrinkles...now lack of them Very Happy

were taken back in Feb. after four months of intense light treatments...way before two months ago when I started the hormones.

Well, I don't blame you for not giving the light up, if it is working for you so well!

I am confused on your comment about your pictures. I thought the photo you posted on the AALS thread was showing the improvement in your forehead after you had used the New AALS and the new serum, but it sounds like it was way before you started your trial with the New AALS/serum?

Rileygirl,
As much information that has come forth recently it is understandable that it could be confusing. I posted the pictures of my forehead in the lightstim thread on page 74 and the dates of the last picture was Jan 2010(stated on the picture)...that was using the lightstim with green tea protocol. http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=29297&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=1825
I restarted an intensive treatment session in Oct.2010 using the serum on the under eye area. That too is causing some major change especially under the eye area. My conclusion is that I have had succeess in both intense Lightstim treatments...first with green tea(several months treatment ending in Jan.2010)pics show this... the next with the serum on the eye area under eye area has plumped up and the crepiness is diminishing started the first of Oct. 2010. My thought is the serum is well worth adding to the treatment...it ramped it up even more than the green tea.
I apologize for getting things side tracked on this thread but wanted to provide clarity on the subject of the Lighstim since it was discussed here. Very Happy

Sis....A year ago I didn't have a clue that I would get hit like a ton of bricks with menopause at 55...but I did. All I can say is I am grateful for the information on the bio-identical threads here because it reminded me of information I had been exposed to earlier and set me on a great course of action. I am very appreciative of the experience of those that have gone before me and took the time to share about it.

free skin care · Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:33 am

This is some recommended reading for bio-identical hormone therapy.

free skin care · Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:00 pm

I've used the Vivelle Dot (aka Estradot) and ProGest progesterone cream for several years. They are bioidentical and cheaper than the compounded versions which are the "gold standard" if you can afford it. My gyn recommended them because she's successfully used them for years herself as well as prescribing them to her patients. She used to prescribe conventional Big Pharma HRT, the kind that was proven by their own studies to be dangerous. She said she couldn't in good conscious continue prescribing it when she could see her patients suffering from its ill effects. She is open to alternative medicine, unlike most MDs, which is one reason I like her. Conventional HRT is made from horse estrogens. Maybe Sarah Jessica Parker takes it. Laughing

All Big Pharma sales reps are banned from her practice.

Read Suzanne Somers' book Ageless. I don't have her latest one so I don't know if it specifically talks about HRT, but Ageless is a good basic resource. Some people who have obviously never read the book think it's her opinion. All she did was interview a dozen or so anti-aging, gyn, endocrinologists and others who have successfully prescribed bioidenticals to their patients for decades. They sometimes disagree with each other. So read it and make up your own mind.

I was totally against HRT years ago before I knew anything about it so everyone needs to educate themselves so they don't take away our choices in the future. Big Pharma owns Congress and are very powerful.

free skin care · Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:19 am

I've been professionally employed on the murky frontlines of business and govt for years and I thought I'd seen all manner of chicanery until it got personal - it got personal when I embarked on this personal study of skincare and related aging issues.

The more I learned and researched, I began to ask myself why certain drugs or supplements are commonly available in the UK or Canada or Australia, but not available here in the US...that of course led to me to consider the differences between these countries with respect to government and economics and politics (don't worry I won't got there - politics can drain the soul) - but I have concluded that the downside to a completely market based economy like ours is that business and monetary interests are going to trump the interests of the citizenry nearly every time. You don't see this as much in other parts of the world.

free skin care · Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:26 am

That said, I will continue to be my own best advocate for my own well being and healthcare because I simply cannot leave that to organizations who place profit above healthcare. Health and safety are basic human rights in my opinion.

Many doctors practicing standard of care medicine, will follow the protocols just as they are laid out to them by their organizations (politicized, usually) and as instructed by the insurance companies who are actually in charge. That is not to say that they do not care about their patients, I am sure many do. Other doctors will be willing to view non-mainstream evidence and offer that advice, probably requiring that for those services, there is no insurance reimbursement.

The healthcare system in this country is a mess, but as I said, I do not want to veer off into politics. My advice is to simply make it a first priority to educate yourself and look out for yourself and don't leave it up to any professionals or organizations - they all have owners or agendas.

Best, BF

free skin care · Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:27 am

I have not read this thoroughly but as I scan it the article seems to answer many of the questions raised on this thread about the difference between BHRT and HRT. I will get it started and then link it....

Quote:

Life Extension Magazine October 2009

Bioidentical Hormones:
Why Are They Still Controversial?
White Paper Authored by the Life Extension Foundation®www.lef.org

As women enter the menopausal years, they face a difficult decision. Their bodies’ production of estrogen, progesterone, and other hormones needed to maintain youthful vitality rapidly declines.

While individual effects of menopause vary widely, many women suffer because their bodies no longer produce sex hormones at sufficient levels required to optimally sustain critical physiological processes. Depression, irritability, and short-term memory lapses are common menopausal complaints, along with hot flashes, night sweats, insomnia, and weight gain.

Health problems encountered during menopause may adversely affect a woman for the rest of her lifetime in the absence of appropriate hormone replacement. Yet maturing women today are often told by their doctors to limit prolonged use of hormone drugs, only long enough to obtain relief from menopausal symptoms and then no more. Unfortunately, this advice fails to recognize the critical differences between hormone drugs foreign to women’s bodies and hormones identical to those naturally produced by women’s bodies.

The understandable, factual concern espoused by many mainstream doctors is that FDA-approved estrogen-progestin hormone drugs have been shown to increase the risk of cancer and cardiovascular disease. The dilemma facing aging women is that their bodies may still benefit from youthful hormone levels, but many of their doctors say “no.”

There is, in fact, a body of scientific evidence indicating that natural progesterone (as opposed to synthetic progestin drugs) and the natural estriol form of estrogen may help protect against the very diseases caused by unnatural estrogen-progestin drugs that are foreign to the human body.

Mainstream medical practitioners (many of whom prescribed unnatural hormone drugs for decades) and the FDA (which still allows these dangerous unnatural hormones to be sold) are now at the forefront urging aging women to avoid their prolonged use.

Overlooked by mainstream medicine is a plethora of research findings indicating that women may more safely benefit from individualized doses of natural estrogens and progesterone over their lifetime. Almost completely ignored are lifestyle changes (such as assuring optimal vitamin D status and cruciferous vegetable intake) that may prevent and even reverse the kind of damage to cell regulatory genes inflicted by some estrogenic compounds.

In this comprehensive white paper, we present data showing how women may more safely benefit from comprehensive approaches that naturally restore youthful hormone balance, while protecting aging cells against carcinogenic and atherogenic insults.

the rest is here http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2009/oct2009_Bioidentical-Hormones_01.htm

free skin care · Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:59 pm

I have only heard of the occasional person who continues or restarts cycles on HRT. The aim of HRT and BHRT is simply to alleviate undesirable side effects of meno, is it not? You have to be on a high dose to start cycles again. Same with BHRT. Suzanne has cycles. I don't take enough for that but I wonder if a person should, in order to derive other benefits associated with youthfulness. There don't seem to be any clear info here. Yes, Keliu, once the ovary has ceased to release ova, cycles stop.

free skin care · Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:08 pm

In my experience, most women begin taking HRT when the symptoms of menopause first appear - therefore they continue to ovulate. I think this was the case of the 60 something year old women who had a baby - she was on HRT.

free skin care · Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:46 pm

The great scare with HRT was due to the synthetic progesterone -- progestagen. Clever how Big Pharma spells it almost the same. Rolling Eyes

Why suffer? Just get an estradiol patch and some ProGest from Whole Foods. You'll be right as rain! Of course, find a doctor who knows how to monitor your blood levels and prescribe the proper dose.

free skin care · Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:14 pm

Antonia wrote:

Lacy, regarding the conversion to testosterone, this is something my doctor explained to me in some length. However, the precise details are now sketchy since this was a while back. I believe it involved some sort of back conversion or some such term to DHEA first. Let me see what I can find.

I think maybe you misunderstood your doctor. Estriol does not get converted to testosterone.
DHEA is the precursor of estrogen, not the other way around. You can check it on any endo or gyne book.

Progesterone can convert to androgens.

Antonia wrote:

OK, I'll look for more later but this from an acne site:

The idea of adding progesterone into the body is to balance up excessive estrogen over insufficient blood progesterone level. The androgenic effects become increased in this scenario of female sex hormone imbalances because the excess estrogen are converted into a kind of androgen (called androstenedione) in our adrenal gland. This chemical naturally found in body is the forerunner of testosterone.

There is also bigger conversion of excess estrogens into natural testosterone by the fat cells in the body; women with oestrogen excess tend to be overweight with fat cells, resulting in more testosterone conversion.

Therefore natural progesterone works by blocking the effects of rising androgen which are the result of excessive estrogen converted to testosterone.

The website has some inaccuracies.

To begin with, adipocytes cannot convert estrogen to testosterone. They simply don't have the enzymes to do so. They do secrete aromatase which can convert estradiol and thus that's why obese women have a relative hyperestrogenic state and are at increased risk of estrogen-dependent cancer.

The adrenal gland does not convert estrogen to testosterone. The adrenal gland secretes androgens itself.

In acne, the pill that's given is a compound that has some progestational activity but that is mainly an anti-androgen. So it's not because of some sort of imbalance of progesterone.

And the main reason we want to balance progesterone is due to the risks of unopposed estrogen.

free skin care · Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:59 am

The adverse effects of the WHI RCT was due to the combination of E + P and E alone in hysterectomized women.

I'm sure you all remember the history of the WHI. Several observational studies had concluded that HRT had good CV effects, prevented cancer, etc, etc. Everyone was singing the praises of HRT, everyone was prescribing it and then... the WHI came. The WHI had to be stopped because of the adverse effects which included cardiovascular events, stroke, etc.

Now this was not a huge surprise. Lots of things that were considered good in observational studies, ended up being neutral or bad in randomized controlled trials. Observational studies are susceptible to biases that cannot be controlled and that really only randomization gets rid of.

Now I have yet to read one paper that says that "natural" progesterone activates any different receptors than medroxyprogesterone acetate so I don't know why we would expect such different effects.

In addition, women that have increased levels of "natural" estrogens are at increased risk of estrogen-dependent cancers.

So I do not understand how can anyone make the leap and say that BHRT is absolutely harmless.

I also do understand that postmenopausal symptoms can be unbearable and thus I do understand many people taking a risk in order to increase quality of life.

Personally, if I had postmenopausal symptoms I would:

a. Try to see if I can solve them with non-hormonal therapy. If it doesn't then...

b. I would use BHRT but not in creams, in pill form. With the cream you can't guarantee how much you're really taking and the absorption rate varies too much for my taste

c. I would take the lowest possible dose to control my symptoms.

There are no good ways of measuring estrogen/progestagens. Salivary levels are unfortunately useless. They correlate poorly with plasma levels, are not standardized so 2 labs can get completely different levels with the same sample.

Even with plasma levels there's no agreement of what constitutes "normal" levels of progestagen/estrogen in postmenopausal women. Estrogen/progestagen levels in women vary day to day. There is not one single study that shows that salivary levels reflect hormone status. I personally consider it a scam. So I would not rely on that but I would rather just go by symptom relief

d. I would try to take it for a couple of years only if possible

Nowadays there is a HUGE market on BHRT and lots of people are making money and making outrageous claims. Labs are making money measuring salivary levels even though they know they are not good levels, hormones are promoted, etc, etc.

Public citizen usually has great reviews of drugs and they are known for bashing the FDA and big pharma. They are also calling out the BHRT industry for taking advantage of women and not doing their homework:
https://www.worstpills.org/results.cfm?drug_id=1774&drugfamily_id=0&disease_id=0&druginduced_id=0&keyword_id=0&x=45&y=17

free skin care · Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:23 pm

aprile wrote:

Just look at how many dangerous drugs have been released onto the marketplace under the watchful eye of the FDA.

We are living a lot longer than our ancestors and we shouldn’t have to suffer with symptoms like lack of sleep, forgetfulness, body aches and pains, vaginal dryness or pain, lack of desire, dry skin, hair, increased wrinkles, so and so forth. Talk about a poor quality of life.

I agree with you April. The FDA frankly has no credibility with me at all. The have too much hand holding with corps with deep pockets. And they don't protect us even in the chemicals they allow on the market much less all the toxic drugs that are pushed in the media.

I also agree about quality of life issues and that we're all so different. I'm so happy to use bioidentical hormones, I want to be happy, comfortable and enjoy every minute of the rest of my life!!!

free skin care · Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:50 am

I'm wary of the FDA because they don't protect me personally. I walk outside my condo and I cannot breathe and become physically sick because of the poison spewing out of my neighbor's dryers. Why do they allow me to be poisoned? Why do they say something that is making my physically sick is safe?

I don't think it's conspiracy per se, I think it's big money that won't allow change. A lot of us are tired of fighting against all the toxins in the environment and being deluged with ads for drugs and can't figure out why we can't just stop the madness.

I would love to see the same amount of media focused on healing and health as there are toxic commercials and ads.

If you google FDA whistleblower you'll see there's so much wrong going on there. Take Avandia for example, people DIED while risks were covered up.

I also agree about placebos! I was just talking about how useful that would be in CFS and other illness, doctors SHOULD tell people they can recover rather than saying all we can do is throw these antidepressants and other drugs at you. Why can't doctors be more optimistic even if they don't personally believe? the mind body connection is a truly untapped resource....(read Healing and Recovery by Dr. David Hawkins)

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