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Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:50 pm  |
Here is the literature behind it: (I actually remember the colour being on this list of one of the Skinbiology ingredient labels)
Copper peptides are used at VERY low concentrations. This is Dr. Sivak's write up on them:
The % concentration we recommend is .0017%. The justification for this can be found below (it is written by Dr. Sivak our resident scientist):
In human serum, copper spontaneously binds to glycyl-histidyl-lysine (GHK), a tripeptide complex that has high affinity for the copper (II) anion. This complex has been shown, both in vitro and in vivo, to accelerate wound healing. One study reported that the addition of GHK-copper complex to human fibroblasts induced a specific, concentration-dependent stimulation of collagen synthesis A later study demonstrated a dose-dependent stimulation of glycosaminoglycan synthesis, specifically heparan sulfate and dermatan sulfate, by adding GHK-copper complex to human skin fibroblasts.
Please note that there are several forms of copper used in the skin care market. The most common are copper gluconate, a copper salt, a mixture of soy protein hydrolizate with copper and the coppper tripeptide. These forms are not equivalent and only the copper tripeptide has been shown to aid in wound healing and to stimulate synthesis of dermis macromolecules.
I suggest that the concentration of copper tripeptide in the finished skin care product is about 2 ppm. I chose this concentration on the basis of the scientific literature available. Why 2 ppm and not a higher concentration? The beneficial effects of copper tripeptide does not show a linear relationship with copper tripeptide concentration. As concentration increases, there is an optimum range and then the benefits decrease. There is also the problem of copper stimulating the activity of proteases, enzymes capable of breaking down collagen and elastin.
I am well aware that skin care manufacturers may be using higher concentrations of copper peptide. There are two possible reasons for this. One is that they are not using copper tripeptide but soy protein hydrolizate, and that the concentration they refer to is that of the protein and not the copper. The second reason is that they may not be aware of the possible drawbacks of copper, although many users have reported problems with commercially available copper products.
References:
Maquart, Francois Xavier; Pickart, Loren; Laurent, Maryvonne; Gillery, Philippe; Monboisse, Jean Claude; Borel, Jacques Paul (1988) Stimulation of collagen synthesis in fibroblast cultures by the tripeptide-copper complex glycyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine-copper(2+). FEBS Lett. 238 : 343-6.
Downey, Daniel; Larrabee, Wayne F., Jr.; Voci, Vincent; Pickart, Loren (1985) Acceleration of wound healing using glycyl-histidyl-lysyl copper(II). Surg. Forum: 36 573-5.
May, Peter M.; Whittaker, Jill; Williams, David R. (1983) Copper complexing by growth stimulating tripeptide, glycylhistidyllysine. Inorg. Chim. Acta: 80(1-2), L5-L7.
Wegrowski, Y.; Maquart, F. X.; Borel, J. P (1992) Stimulation of sulfated glycosaminoglycan synthesis by the tripeptide-copper complex glycyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine-Cu2+. Life Sciences, 51: 1049-56. |
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Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:01 pm |
| arielstar08 wrote: |
I found this protect unpleasant in its texture, smell and colour. It didn't do anything.
I now buy Copper peptide as a raw material and add to cream. I don't know if it does anything but it is supposed to be backed by scientific research, so I just use it.
The raw material that you buy is actually very clear in colour with a very slight tint of blue. You only need it in very low concentration to aid wound healing. The finished product will NOT be blue. What I now realise is that Skinbiology actually add dye in the product to make it look blue and "potent". Sounds gross, doesn't it.
Awful stuff. |
arielstar - I doubt the stuff you bought as a raw matierial is the real stuff. SB has a patent on the 2nd generation CP, so I doubt there's anything out there like it yet. The first generation CPs, (GHK-Cu) do have other mfgr's using that technology, as the patenet has expired.
In any case - can I ask how long you used the CP Serum, at what strength (how many drops) and how often? Also - did you use an exfolient? And, what cleanser did you use? Did you incorporate a wait time between any of these steps.
I find that a lot of ppl that claim to have no luck could try a diff method with better success. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:21 am |
The reason for the different shades of blue is concentration and actual chemistry of the GHK-Cu and the SkinBio CP's is different.
Skin Actives sells GHK-copper which is really more true blue and lighter.
SkinBio's CP serum would be more green-blue and deeper in colour. It's is much more concentrated than the Skin Actives copper active, but is also used at a much higher concentration because it is chemically different, and acts slightly differently than GHK-Cu.
For my own experience, I used the SkinBio CP, and it worked great for me - tightened up my jawline and firmed my skin well. I never got bad skin from it - it's generally accepted now that people who go though "the uglies" are older people with less resilient skin... so the SkinBio CP routine breaks down the existing skin support structure (so skin looks bad) before rebuilding it (looking good again). With younger or younger-acting skins, the CP routine does also break down some of the skin support, but younger skin is more able to cope with this and doesn't go through "the uglies" |
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Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:04 pm |
Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! LOL!  OK. GHK is the mildest of all copper peptides & the one used in the studies (first generation). CP Serum is the mildest of the second generation ones. I did notice too that the SB serums have different ingredients on different websites. I don't know why? Maybe the websites that resell their products don't update the ingredient lists when they change? I don't know...
Also, I have been using the PSF Bio-Copper serum for a while now (it's GHK-Cu type). When I first got it in the mail it was a lighter blue than the SB serums, so I thought it was less concentrated. I emailed PSF about the color & this was their reply:
"Dear Heather,
Chad asked that I get back to you in regard to your concern with the color of our Bio-Copper Serum. There seems to be a general misunderstanding about the color of copper peptides and their potency. Many people believe that the darker blue the product is, the more powerful or concentrated the copper peptides are. This is untrue. The depth of color in a copper peptide solution is dependent on many things. It can vary due to raw materials, pH, impurities, and the level of free copper ions present in the solution. Free copper ions are left-over copper ions that did not bind to the peptide to create a complex. So they are copper ions that are not part of a copper peptide complex. Free copper ions are not desirable in a cosmetic product. They can cause irritation & edema in the skin, as well as dryness and what some customers call "the uglies". To alleviate this problem, we remove 99.9% of the free copper ions in our copper peptide solution. In so doing, the color becomes a lighter blue, due to the fact that we are only keeping copper ions that are bound to a peptide chain. Also, GHK-Cu (first generation copper peptides) are not as dark as the soy-copper digest products available (second generation) due to the difference in raw materials.
Some other manufacturers of copper peptides make a big fuss about how "deep blue" their serums are. Why they do this I do not know; marketing tactics I suppose. You can mix copper chloride and water, and bring the pH up with regular household ammonia and achieve a beautiful, rich cobalt blue serum - but not a peptide to be found. And it would be toxic to boot! Certainly not something you would want to be using on your skin, despite the pretty dark blue color. We are more concerned with the integrity of the actual peptides, not the resultant color of our serum. That is why we do not add color enhancers such as lutein, lycopene or azulene. We believe that our copper peptides are some of the best that are currently available. We stand behind our products 100% with a money-back guarantee. If you are unhappy for any reason, please let us know and we will happily issue you a refund. Thank you again for your email and for your inquiry. We are always happy to help.
Regards,
Darren White
President/CEO
Pure Skin Formulations, LLC
www.psfskincare.com
"
In another email they told me that the concentration of their serum was over 2% pure GHK-Cu. And I read on the SkinBio forum that their GHK-Cu is around 1% GHK-Cu. So I really don't think that the color does relate to the strength? I don't see how it could considering all the facts? What do y'all think?
| summer2004 wrote: |
| Alien wrote: |
| What I continue to come back to is that the research I can find in support of CP's regenerative capabilities were done on the original, supposedly weaker, GHK. ...... |
Hi Alien,
I have 2 questions:
Which serum is the first generation of CP?
Also, which one is the mildest? GHK serum or CP serum?
The reason I get confused is that from Skinbiology website, it says GHK serum is milder than CP serum; while in NCN, it says CP serum is the mildest.
http://reverseskinaging.com/productguide.html
http://www.ncnproskincare.com/virtuemart/68.html |
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:15 am |
Well, I have a love/hate relationship with CP's. I love the research...But, as any researcher will tell you (Dr P only submits the chemicals he has THOUGHT so long about, for study and patent approval) that proving EFFICACY of an anti-ageing product remains highly subjective.. We simply haven't the technology to definitively prove that one thing or another has worked-skin is very dynamic on it's own!
I hate the Skin Biology Forum- dissenting opinions are deleted. I have a strong suspicion that some regular posters have a "vested" interest to fuel their fanaticism. When a direct medical/scientific question is asked it is ignored or a non sense answer is received.
While I have and do use some of the products and have never experienced any negative reaction, I cannot swear I've seen any improvement either. Dr P insist that his theories are based on skin renewal that was born from studying wound healing; therefore one must "wound" the skin to create an environment that the CPs can work on..I, as a medical professional, cannot get behind dermarolling, picking skin with toothpicks, abrading with sandpaper,or chemically exfoliating to the point of a burn.. |
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I don't buy product from EDS so no agenda |
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:58 am |
What I find funny is that most people assume that the benefits of a product are attributable to the "active" ingredient. (I mean that about all creams and serums we use, not just SkinBiology's products.) Firmness for example is due to the copper peptides; sag is due to the copper peptides too. We always assume it is the active which produces the resulting change in our skin, both positive and negative.
Personally I stick to the Neutrogena product simply because I know my skin doesn't like some of those "other" ingredients on the SkinBiology labels.
Another thing I noticed is that people assume a higher concentration of an active ingredient is always beneficial for skin. So they start off with the lowest concentration and dilute it with water. Over time, they switch to the stronger product and work up to using it less diluted. The philosophy that "more is better" seldom hold true in science though, and skin care is no exception. |
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Born 1953; Blonde-Blue; Normal skin |
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:23 pm |
Another thing I noticed is that people assume a higher concentration of an active ingredient is always beneficial for skin. So they start off with the lowest concentration and dilute it with water. Over time, they switch to the stronger product and work up to using it less diluted. The philosophy that "more is better" seldom hold true in science though, and skin care is no exception.
I agree completely!!! More isn't allways better |
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I don't buy product from EDS so no agenda |
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:51 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
I don't think they are "new" ingredient additions Sis, I was just trying to figure out *why* the very same product label would be different for all other distributors..
I emailed Nanci for her thoughts, but she's away till next week... I'll post her reply when she answers. |
I appreciate that you pick up on stuff like that nonetheless.
How long have you been using the CP's and how frequently? |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:01 pm |
| Sis, thanks a bunch! I think I'm doing it right, per Nanci's newsletter. I normally use retin-a mixed with Obagi Blender 3-4 nights a week. I also do as Kassy does, alternating Vit. C days with Copper Peptide days. There just isn't enough time for all of these various skin products/tools! I am loving Skin Signals. I use mine over Exfol Serum, and then put emu oil on top. I've been adding a dab of SAS' ELS serum and Anti-Ox Booster to the emu in an effort to replicate SkinBiology's emu product containing Vit. E., lutein & lycopene. I very much like the emu with these two SAS products blended with it. You're always so very helpful, and I really appreciate it. ~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:56 pm |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
| jjbeacham wrote: |
Kassy, which CP's are you using? I'm curious because I had virtually no visible results with Super CP Serum, but am so far having good results that I can actually see with Skin Signals. TIA! ~ JJ |
I use the "CP Serum"... I got it from NCN.
I haven't noticed any positive result yet, and I'm only using it because it's supposed to be one of the best things for boosting collagen production..
I'll stick with it for a few more months and re-evaluate then I guess.
What I'm really starting to love is DMAE... I never would have said that a year ago, but a bit of sag is a great mind changer... |
Kassy, a bit of sag is very persuasive, isn't it? When I did my ill-advised 3 week experiment with Super CP Serum applied aggressively, I woke up one morning and one of my upper eyelids was sagging like you would not believe. I freaked completely out, and applied DMAE. Within 3 hours, the eyelid was back to normal and never sagged again. Whew!!! So I fell in love with DMAE myself!
This is my very strong DMAE toner/serum recipe which I put on first and let sit for 15-20 minutes. It's silky, firming, and I love it. My little "scoop" is the end of a stirrer, the ones with a large end and a small end. In this recipe, the scoop is the small end. You can make this with any or all of the other ingredients. I use the acids because that way, it is somewhat exfoliating as well. But you can easily leave them out. This is a super strong serum/toner, DMAE -wise, as you can see (about 8% DMAE).
1 oz. distilled water
3 scoops L-Carnitine
3 scoops yogurt lactic acid, powdered - optional
1 crushed aspirin (salicylic acid)- optional
1/4 t. powdered hyaluronic acid
4 heaping scoops DMAE
1 capsule powdered Alpha Lipoic Acid mixed into few drops emu oil
1 scoop Niacinamide
1/8-1/4 tsp. silk amino acids liquid
1-2 drops: Germaben or Optiphen
Liquid Hyaluronic Acid - a squirt
Sodium PCA (NAPCA) - a squirt
Shake, apply after cleansing before moisturizing, while your face is still damp. You can apply your moisturizer (after 10 minutes) over this serum. Visible results within 10-20 minutes.
Kassy, I feel rather silly offering a recipe to you, of all people. But this is one that I think you will really like. Crossing fingers that you like it!
~ JJ |
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away ~ Author Unknown |
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Sat Jan 09, 2010 6:13 am |
| Kassy_A wrote: |
......I also use Retin-A on my CP day, and apply the CP's an hour before.. (On that note, I also have conflicting info..  Nanci instructs to use it that way (CP 1st), but when I wrote an email to SB I got a huge instruction reply that said use the Retin-A 1st, then CP's...... |
Kassy,
Here is the comment from Dr. P.:
"Put on the Retin-A. Then the copper peptides. No wait is needed."
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5990018252/m/8150047283?r=7590030095#7590030095
I'll add CP into my evening regime (I am using Retin A & Taz) once I use up the Matrixyl 3000 serum.
At first, I thought that I'd use CP in the morning; however, after knowing that CP cannot be used with sunblock with zinc oxide; I rather use CP in the evening (though Dr. P & Nanci of NCN have different opinion towards Retin-A & CP)
I cross-posted the compatibility zinc oxide & CP in this thread:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=507994#507994
As I'd like to add CP into my am regime; therefore, I have searched the Skin Biology forum to see if CP is compatible with sunblock containing Zinc Oxide; here is the reply of Dr. P"
"The problem with zinc oxide is that skin acids can cause the zinc oxide to release zinc ions. These can interfere with the actions of the copper ions. Some women tell me that zinc oxide sunscreens increase the size of their pores."
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7270023352/m/3470013985?r=8980033985#8980033985
Also, his comments of Zinc oxide & CP:
"The copper and zinc ions can react. So use them at a different time of the day."
"Copper and zinc compete for binding sites on proteins. Too much of one, drives out the the other."
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1990018252/m/3710080644?r=9150015744#9150015744 |
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Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:29 pm |
| kims wrote: |
| summer2004 wrote: |
Foxe,
Do you put CP serum on your skin after Retin-A? |
Not Foxe, but I think that's the correct order. I believe it relates to the ph levels in the products. |
summer - when I used Tazorac ( a close cousin of Retin A) I would apply the Taz first (after letting my skin's pH return to normal after cleansing - about 20 mins), and then the CPs (after waiting about 45 mins for the taz to work). The pH was the reason for this as the Taz (and Retin A) pH is low - about 3.0 and the pH of the CP serum is around 6.0. If you apply the product with the higher pH too soon, it will neutralize the pH of the earlier applied product before it's had a chance to work.
This was the theory I was going on before, but I've changed things up now.
I've switched to Retin A Micro (pH of 6.0) and apply the CP serum 1st (pH of 6.0), let that absorb (takes about 5-10 mins)or use an ultrasound to help it absorb and then apply the Retin A Micro. I think my results are much better w/ this method.
I also use a pH balanced cleanser so I don't have to wait for my skin's pH to return to normal (4.5-5.5) |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:31 pm |
| Alien wrote: |
| For everyone that Pm'd me: I don't mind telling you I am now 51. I had sent a private email to Dr P that included a close up pic of myself at 50. It was then that he replied that I "didn't seem to need" Cps.. I encourage everyone to read the entierty of the forums: at the slightes hint that CPs are not being as effective as a client would like the advice WILL BE to wound the dermis with increased acids, needeling, and derma rolling. I have persisted using the product, and as I work in a maxio surgical practice, VIA and extreme close up photography is available to me at no cost.. In 2 years there has been NO perceivable change in pores, firmness, wrinkles or redness. But this is with NO acids rolling etc Then again as Dr P said himself I didn't NEED the products. |
I have never heard of this before so I asked Dr. Pickart about it and if copper peptides only worked on wounded skin.
Dr. Pickart's Reply:
| Quote: |
Skin need not be broken or wounded for copper peptides to rebuild the skin. Studies at three Universities found copper peptides alone to improve skin on women in their 50s. But removing long-term buried skin damage may require a very vigorous approach (copper peptides, hydroxy acids, needling, abrasion) to allow the buried damage to be ejected from the skin.
Effects of topical creams containing vitamin C, a copper-binding peptide cream and melatonin compared with tretinoin on the ultrastructure of normal skin - A pilot clinical, histologic, and ultrastructural study.
Abdulghani A.A.; Sherr A.; Shirin S.; Solodkina G.; Tapia E.M.; Wolf.GottliebA.B.;Dermatology, UMDNJ, Robert Wood Johnson Medical School; Disease Management and Clinical Outcomes, 1998, 1:136-141.
A Clinical Evaluation of a Copper-Peptide Containing Liquid Foundation and Cream Concealer Designed for Improving Skin Condition. Appa Y, Barkovic S, Finkey M B, Neutrogena Corporation, Los Angeles, CA, Stephens, T, TJ Stephens & Associates, Inc, Dallas, TX Abstract P66, American Academy of Dermatology Meeting, February 2002
The Effect of Tripeptide to Copper Ratio in Two Copper Peptide Creams on Photoaged Facial Skin. Leyden J, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA, Grove, G, KGL, Inc/Skin Study Center, Broomall, PA; Barkovic S, Appa Y, Neutrogena Corporation, Los Angeles, CA; Abstract P67, American Academy of Dermatology Meeting, February 2002
Skin Care Benefits of Copper Peptide Containing Facial Cream. Leyden J, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA Stephens T, Thomas J Stephens & Associates, Inc, Dallas, TX; Finkey MB, Barkovic S, Neutrogena Corporation, Los Angeles, CA; Abstract P68, American Academy of Dermatology Meeting, February 2002
Skin Care Benefits of Copper Peptide Containing Eye Creams. Leyden J, University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA; Stephens T, Thomas J Stephens & Associates, Inc, Dallas, TX; Finkey MB, Barkovic S, Neutrogena Corporation, Los Angeles, CA; Abstract P69, American Academy of Dermatology Meeting,February 2002
Copper Peptide and Skin, M.B. Finkley, Y. Appa, S. Bhandarkar, Cosmeceuticals and Active Cosmetic, 2nd Edition (ISBN: 0-8247-4239-7),
2005, pp 549-563 |
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Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:13 am |
STARMODEL: Yes, I saw your post to Dr P on the Forum.. Did you read the papers sited?
Why, when one complains of slow progress is the first advice to dermaroll, increase acid use, dermabrade?? None of that is a wounding?
Notice: Dr P himself keeps some distance from those topics. There are 2, in my opinion, women that have mental health issues that give copious advice on that forum. One emailed me personally after giving herself a horrible facial MRSA infection- yet she still advises others to follow her model.
I'm not here to convince anyone either way..I feel people need to DIG deeper before becoming fans of a product |
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I don't buy product from EDS so no agenda |
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Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:45 pm |
| Alien wrote: |
| There are 2, in my opinion, women that have mental health issues that give copious advice on that forum. |
Also Alien,
What do you mean by copious advice? I am new here & I've been sifting through the various threads. I have found many people giving loads of advice on skincare. Some good, some bad, most just their personal experiences to help others draw their own conclusions.
Isn't that what a forum is for? |
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Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:36 pm |
Ideally, the forums would clearly reflect a sharing of info and experience.
However, it astounds me, and I find it unconscionable, that people whom have injured themselves to the extreme of hospitalization- are advising others to do the same. |
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I don't buy product from EDS so no agenda |
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Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:16 pm |
Alien,
It is not fair to judge someone on their "mental health" whether it is on this forum or another. If it is that obvious to you, then it must be obvious to others. Just because someone gives advice does not mean you have to agree or take it.
Besides, I have searched the EDS Forums & have found some very long threads just on dermarolling. There was even a segment on dermarolling on the prime time TV Show "The Doctors" the other day. Did anyone happen to see?
It is almost like you have an axe to grind or something?
So, I asked Dr. Pickart about the ingredient list & cost of his various products which you have also brought up & questioned here. I think most people could figure this out on their own. But for clarity's sake, here was his reply:
From Dr. Pickart:
| Quote: |
| The major differences are in the amounts of a very expensive copper peptide complex. The more expensive products cost much more to produce. |
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Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:53 am |
| Star Model wrote: |
| It is not fair to judge someone on their "mental health" whether it is on this forum or another. If it is that obvious to you, then it must be obvious to others. Just because someone gives advice does not mean you have to agree or take it. |
When someone gives themselves a MRSA infection and then instructs others to follow her regime- THATS NUTS
I also saw an episode on self appendectomy- shall we try that as well...could be fun  |
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I don't buy product from EDS so no agenda |
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:55 am |
In all fairness, the person from another forum who Alien refers to as NUTS, is not here to defend themselves or explain. There is probably more that we are not hearing or this person may be willing to admit.
But the insinuation was made that the CPs only work when used with more extreme methods such as dermarolling or stronger acid. That is how this all came up. The truth is that extreme methods a not required. However, some people with more extreme problems such as acne scars, stretch marks, etc. are using a more vigorous approach for their more serious problem and getting very good results.
To judge a whole skincare line based on one person who MAY or MAY NOT be NUTS?, simply is not fair. Sounds a little like sour grapes to me.
I think it is important to be informed as best we can, but it is up to each of us to make our own choices. That is what this was all about. It is unfortunate that it has twisted & turned into name calling. |
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Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:59 pm |
| jjbeacham wrote: |
DM, thank you. Would you please post this in the Dermarolling for Product Pentration thread as well? I have been cleaning my rollers with alcohol, but I really like one of the forum member's idea of using bleach for 3-4 minutes. I'll start doing that.
Sorry for going off-topic, here! ~ JJ |
Problem there: Bleach ie Sodium Hypochloride will corrode the needles-rust can't be great subdermal either |
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I don't buy product from EDS so no agenda |
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Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:30 am |
| According to APIC (Association for Professionals in Infection Control and Epidemiology), ethyl alcohol and isopropyl alcohol are not effective in sterilizing instruments because they lack sporicidal activity and can’t penetrate protein-rich materials. Isopropyl alcohol also lacks the ability to kill hydrophilic viruses. For these reasons, alcohol is classified as an intermediate level disinfectant. Most investigators have access to autoclaves, gas sterilizers, hot beads, flames, chemicals or boiling water which can be used to properly sterilize the equipment. The Guide sets the standard for a septic technique which includes sterilizing instruments and appropriately trained personnel. In the Council’s view, departure from Guide recommendations places an additional responsibility on the IACUC to provide appropriate scientific justification, performance data, and/or monitoring to support alternative practices. For these reasons, the Council cannot accept blanket use of alcohol for surgical instrument preparation. The IACUC must evaluate the use of alcohol on a case-by-case basis, look at all the variables, include a review of relevant literature, and implement ongoing monitoring procedures. In sum, they must justify the use of alcohol as the sole surgical instrument disinfectant from both scientific and animal welfare perspectives. □If you have questions or would like additional details on the committee’s review, send an e-mail tokbayne@aaalac.org. Winter/Spring Issue 2001 |
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I don't buy product from EDS so no agenda |
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Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:04 am |
Here's a worthwhile update from NCN regarding use of retin a with CP's....
UPDATE: Copper Peptide - A New Stance On Using It
In my effort to get the January newsletter sent out before our mini-vacation, I made a faux pas..... I should really proof read, shouldn't I?
This is what I wrote that is incorrect:
If you use Retin-A (or any tretinoin product), use Copper Peptide at the opposite end of the day that you use your Retin-A.
THIS IS THE CORRECT WAY TO USE RETIN-A & CP:
The correct way to use Copper Peptide when you use Retin-A is to apply your Copper Peptide OVER your Retin-A. I suggest waiting until your Retin-A has completely soaked in. However, if your skin isn't tolerating Retin-A well (peeling, flaking and redness,) try mixing your Retin-A and Copper Peptide together.
I also want to mention (thank you summer2004 for the reminder!) that Copper Peptide should be used at night if you wear sun protection that contains Zinc Oxide. I've been back and forth on this subject with Dr. Pickart for months. I've applied sunscreen with Zinc Oxide over my CP for years without any issues at all and with nothing but great results. BUT Dr. Pickart told me that "SOME women say their pores became larger after using zinc oxide. Skin acids could release ionic zinc and this could block the copper effects." He also told me "I often tell clients to use CP Serum or a CP Cream under their sunscreen as a barrier." That sounds like a contridiction to me and he did not elaborate any more on the subject. So with that, I say better safe than sorry and use your Copper Peptide at night if you wear sunscreen or mineral makeup with zinc oxide. If you've been using it like I have, with no problems at all, you can continue to do the same. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:29 pm |
I just started back with CP's within a month or so. I also started dermarolling and all kinds of other stuff so who the heck knows what is doing what?  All I can say is my face looks fresher and firmer - I am also dry brushing once or twice a day.
I decided to start back on CP's (skin signals this time) since I believe they were a valuable part of my skin care regime way back when. I stopped due to reading lots of bad press but came back around (due to Foxe really! and then jj beachum). CP's work for me. Plus I value Dr. Pickart's research history and success with previous generations of CP.
I chose skin signals over my previous Super cop due to the collagen and elastin building property it is supposed to have. I jumped right in and haven't had any problems. (no uglies - didn't before either). I use every other night. Supposedly the addition of emu oil after is supposed to potentiate the effect somewhat so I'm looking to add that in also. |
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Enjoying dermalogica with my ASG and Pico toner ** Disclosure: I was a participant without remuneration in promotional videos for Ageless Secret Gold and the Neurotris Pico Emmy event. |
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Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:40 pm |
| Hi Frodo - love your signature! Skin Signals is a stand alone CP - it is a newer version cp and many people are still using the originals. Some after months/years of use are combining different cps formulas (ie protect & restore w/ssignals) to make it stronger. I am new to the cp game and by no means an expert, but like you have been doing a ton of research - most beneficial info has been on this forum. There are good and bad stories about all of them. Usually the bad has to do w/allergic reactions or overuse. Good way to start w/any of the water base cps is to to dilute with water for a couple of weeks at least and watch how your skin reacts - Lynn |
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born 1964, some raw & live foods - medium complexion - sinking eye area yet manage to still have bags, loose, sagging upper eyelids, 11s not as bad as my N/L & M/L, microneedling .5 & 1mm, led, massage, Vit C, A, CP very occasionally, HA, EES, DMAE, MATRIXYL |
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Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:34 am |
| Alien wrote: |
| Has anyone questioned what the long term benefit vs contraindications might be? Have there been any long term studies on human skin? |
alien, I'm not really sure I understand what you're looking for, but CPs were developed back in the 80's, so that's quite a long time to see the benefits working. Dr Pickart ususally says there are no contraindications (but we all have heard of snippets from a few users, so there are some out there) Usually using the CPs too fast can cause some irritations or 'uglies'. These are *usually* short lived and reverse themselves (according to SB). I have heard of a few say they lasted a long time.
Here is a little history on the beginning of CPs:
Written by William H. Dresher, Ph.D., P.E
While a graduate student at the University of California – San Francisco in the 1970s, Dr. Pickart studied the biochemistry of human aging. Scientists had isolated a sequence of amino acids (glycyl-L-histadyl-L-lysine, a peptide) in human serum that bound copper. In 1973, Pickart found copper glycyl-L-histadyl-L-lysine (GHL-Cu) to be abundant in young people but diminished in older people. He reasoned and later proved that GHL-Cu is the agent that stimulates tissue regeneration; namely, skin regeneration and remodeling, increase in collagen and elastin, rebuilding of blood microcirculation and increase in subcutaneous fat cells4, 5, 6, 7. He later named the GHL-Cu factor Iamin (from the classical Greek word "iama" or curative substance). Later research indicated that Iamin is generated during tissue damage and suggests that the build up of Iamin in the area of tissue damage causes an influx of skin repair cells called acrophages that initiate skin repair mechanisms. He reasoned that the decrease in the blood concentrations of Iamin with aging might be a major cause of the decreased tissue regeneration and organ failure that occurs during the human aging process.
Subsequent work over the next ten years established the chemical and physical structure of the copper complex. By 1983, there were the first laboratory indications that GHL-Cu was a type of metabolically active copper that functioned as a trigger of wound healing and tissue regeneration. Dr. Pickart applied for and has received numerous patents in the USA and in various foreign countries in the areas of: skin regeneration and safer sun tanning; treatment of aging skin, hair regrowth and hair loss prevention, wound healing (chronic skin ulcers, surgical wounds, burns), treatment for inflammatory bowel disease, prevention and healing of stomach ulcers, bone repair, and blockage of reperfusion8 injury and improvement of fingernail and toenail growth and strength.
In 1985, Pickart formed ProCyte Corporation (ProCyte means “for the cell’) for the specific purpose of developing and marketing wound healing and hair restoration products based on his copper peptide technology. The company went public (OTCBB –PRCY) in 1989 to market products for hair growth and loss prevention and for wound healing. Pickart subsequently left the company in 1991 for health reasons.
In 1992, Pickart formed a second, privately owned, company, Skin Biology, Inc.9 to focus on skin care products. The basis of the new company is a second line of copper peptides based on soy bean-derived peptones10. According to Pickart, whereas the natural GHL – Cu peptide has the problem of being very fragile, breaking down rapidly and short acting, and cannot be used in combination with hydroxy acids, this second generation of copper peptides is very stable, is breakdown-resistant and can be used concurrently with hydroxy acids. According to the company, these compounds have been demonstrated to have strong skin repair and anti-inflammatory properties.
As far as studies goes - Skin Biology is one of the few places that offers some up to be viewed. There are so many to look at that I can't say there have been any done to look at the 'long term' effects.
If you have time and can actually understand all that is presented, maybe you can answer that question and let us know?
Here's the link:
http://www.reverseskinaging.com/studies.html |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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