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Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:11 pm  |
The ingredients are as follows:
Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate, Sodium Coco-Sulfate, Triticum Vulgare (Wheat) Starch, 1-Octadecanol, Paraffin, C17789, Talcum, Heilmoor Clay, Water, Glycerin, Chlorey'nahre (CLO), Polyglucuronic Acid, Olea Europaea Fruit Oil, Chamonilla Matricaria (Chamomile) Extract
Yes it is vegan and no cruelty!!
Let me know if there is anything else I can help you with! |
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Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:54 am |
I just found this blog on the WonderbarUSA site...I think it pushed me over the edge and I am going to order the small bar, sigh.
http://wonderbarusa.com/blog/
I will do a half-face trial of the Lemon Peel Bioferment vs. the Wonderbar, and will take before and after pics on each side.
Editing to add: It says on the blog that you should not use the Wonderbar in combination with mineral makeup. 
I do not wear MMU very often (since I work at home) and the one I use (Raesin Images) does not have bismuth in it, so I'm going for it anyway. Unfortunately, Tiffany mentioned hanging with Paula Begoun in the same blog article, which is a huge black mark in my book.  But I'm going to try and overlook it, and buy the bar anyway. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Mon Apr 05, 2010 7:20 pm |
| Star Model wrote: |
This all sounds very interesting from a detoxifying and exfoliating stand point - but I'm not sure I understand the negative effects that may come from MMUP?
That makes no sense to me whatsoever?  Is it a particular ingredient that should be avoided? What about liquid foundations?
Specifically what is the danger when using this with a MMUP?
Any input welcome!  |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
I don't believe we have gotten an answer as to why or what in MMU reacts badly with wonderbar? I don't see where liquid foundation would be better, it's basically the same ingredients as MMU just mixed into oils and waxes or a water-based emulsion?  |
I posted a link above to Tiffany's viewpoint on her blog...she also listed out certain ingredients to avoid (to the best of her knowledge) like bismuth, mica, etc....those that cause irritation to people (like me) anyway. A lot of people get clogged pores from bismuth (I did when I used BE), so I am hopeful that my current bismuth-free formula will not cause any issues.
Editing to add: Her blog link and the ingredients to avoid are on page 3. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:13 pm |
This is what I'm using. My friend bought it for me while travelling in Japan.
http://aishop.wordpress.com/2008/01/17/hokkaido-horse-oil-cream/
I don't think it's pure horse oil but I don't have ingredient list. It's not too oily and no odor at all. It might be compatible with the Wonder Bar.
Don't ask me if horse oil do any good to my skin. I don't know. I always use it as the last step - moisturizer. |
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53, DermaQuest, NCN Products, PMD, Dermarolling |
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Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:26 pm |
| sister sweets wrote: |
I'm sure we're all expecting amazing something or other for the cost of these babies. |
After paying $46 for something the size of my digital camera battery (which may actually be cheaper, lol), I would have to agree with you!
I am thinking positive, but you also know that I'll be upfront about my observations when I'm done.  I seldom drink the kool-aid...there are only a couple of things that I have raved about on EDS. (especially long-term!) |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:41 pm |
I ordered the Wonderbar the day after this thread was posted, LOL (after doing a bit of research). The bar arrived yesterday and I used it for the first time last night and again this morning. It did leave my face feeling slightly itchy at first, but also soft. I'm not really sure if I'm supposed to apply it to dry or wet face. The instructions are not clear on that. I put some Atopalm cream on my face afterward. I have lots of moisturizers and creams, but I don't know which to use because I don't really have any moisturizer on hand without chemicals or antioxidants or glycolics or whatever else we're not supposed to use with this bar. When this organic moisturizer I recently ordered on a whim from MuLondon arrives, I'll switch to that and see how it goes. These are the ingredients of the moisturizer: Vitellaria Paradoxa (Shea Butter)*, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut Butter)*, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba Oil)*, Rosmarinus Officinalis (Rosemary Extract)*, Vanilla Planifolia (Vanilla Extract)*, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa Extract). Contains no mineral oils, parabens, silicones, emulsifiers or other man-made chemicals. Hopefully it won't be too heavy and occlusive.
For the first six weeks (maybe two months?), I plan to use only the Wonderbar and a moisturizer and a sunscreen. I'm not really sure what kind of sunscreen to use either. I have several choices of separate, stand-alone sunscreens here, but after a while they often break me out so I might not be able to tell whether I'm reacting to the sunscreen or the bar. The sunscreen I was using before, consistently, is a moisturizer/sunscreen combo and is a chemical sunscreen and also has added glycolic. I think I will use the Elta MD UV Shield SPF 45 I have at first, though it is part chemical sunscreen, then maybe next week order the Vanicream sunscreen that is recommended in Wonderbar blog and see how that goes. After the first few days I'll probably incorporate my Clarisonic in the mornings (lather the bar and apply the soap, let it dry for five minutes, wet the Clarisonic brush and use it over my face, then rinse off) because my face doesn't really feel clean, especially around my nose, without some physical exfoliation. I also have some of the Lemon Peel Bioferment that I got about five weeks ago, but I haven't been using that consistently. That's part of my problem--I get things to help and use them for a week or two then use becomes sporadic because I get discouraged when I don't see immediate results, or I just get lazy. But I figure I have to wash my face (at least once a day!) anyway. Since I rarely wear makeup, sometimes I slack in the evenings. So the bar isn't really an extra step since I need some kind of cleanser anyway, so hopefully I will be able to stick with the process this time. Anyway, after a couple of days, I plan to dab the LPB on a couple of spots (the darkest and most recent ones), but not use it all over my face.
I have so many skin care products that I can't imagine not using them, or letting them go to waste completely. I'm always looking for the next best thing, something for added "oomph," so I can't imagine just using this bar and a moisturizer/sunscreen combo for the rest of my life, unless it really does turn out to work miracles. It seems rather boring. If I'm still using the bar after two months, I will slowly reincorporate some of the other products I have, at least until I use them up. From the blog on the Wonderbar site and their Facebook page, it looks like the company may be planning on introducing some additional products to use in conjunction with the bar. I'm a bit suspicious of companies that recommend using only their product line to avoid adverse skin reactions, so hopefully that won't turn out to be the case with this company.
I'm slicing the bar in roughly fourths so hopefully it will last a little longer since the whole bar is not getting wet and dissolving at the same time. The price is certainly nothing to sneeze at. But if it actually works, I don't think it's a bad deal. I know I've spent $120 - $150 before on certain serums and creams that, for the amount of time they last, break down to about $20 a month, which is roughly the cost of the Wonderbar.
I took some "before" pictures but I'm not sure how well they show the condition of my skin. My areas of hyperpigmentation and melasma don't really show up so well on camera--the light seems to diffuse them--and I'm not sure how to get a good photo (especially since I don't want to ask anyone else to photograph those areas for me). But if the bar turns out to make a visible difference, I'll try to take some "after" pictures and post before/after. |
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Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:40 pm |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
I'll be looking forward to hearing your experience using this, Bethany and StarModel have very different experiences with the first use, and very different approaches to what they are using with it. Would you share your plan?
TIA |
Sure no problem. I'll be sticking to a mild moisturizer (no retinol or acids), sunscreen, and only on weekends liquid foundation. Also will use copper peptides on occasion along with the rest of my bottle of Lemon Peel Bioferment. Oh, and of course I will still use my Lightstim + green tea pretreatment serum.
Off to give it my first try.... |
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ReAura/Tria Face & Eye, Baby Quasar MD Plus, Derminator (age 4 |
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Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:34 pm |
I just read this on the Wonderbar blog..rather disappointing.
I have to admit that if I knew I had to give up all my other products to use this one bar, I would not have purchased it...I really don't think that requirement is sufficiently clear in the marketing materials, and I didn't expect to be publically flogged for 1) using it only once daily and 2) integrating my other products.
This reminds me of using 302 Skincare, except they were far more forthcoming right up front about all the "rules" and they had clinical studies showing results. While the Wonderbar may be a great "basic" routine (especially for troubled skin, just like 302), they have no clinicals SHOWING that this is equivalent to an anti-aging routine.
After reading this, I'm really not sure I feel good about using this anymore. And I definitely don't feel good about a marketing tactic that dismisses what customers think and feel. But I will say that this will fit perfectly into MLM...there are lots of kool-aid drinkers out there!
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Wonderbar. Moisturizer. Sunblock. Don’t make yourself crazy…just keep it simple.
Have we been brainwashed or what?? What is going on that we feel we have to use 15 products in order to achieve our skincare goals? Why the obsession with covering up the flaws and issues? Why not just address the issues and fix the flaws? Wouldn’t it just be easier to have healthy skin that we didn’t NEED to cover up? We can get our skin to glow by using all of these different products with ingredients that give us a “fake” glow- yuck. And then, we exacerbate our issues and just need more product to cover up our dull, unhealthy skin and make it glow again. The more cover-up we use, the more we need to cover up. It’s a vicious cycle and one that I would love to help put an end to. I do understand that there is trauma associated with having to fight a lifelong skin problem, that there is a fear that it will get worse permanently, and that there is a belief that we can’t leave our house without makeup. We have been told SO many different stories by our dermatologists, facialists, skincare “gurus”, department store makeup ladies, etc., that it’s downright overwhelming. Hearing all of the conflicting theories can be scary, discomforting and…well, suspicious. Sometimes, though, you just gotta go with your gut and step out of your comfort zone…..sometimes it just works out for the best and we learn something in the process. Maybe we even learn how to glow…naturally?
There is a skin care forum out there right now where several people are discussing the Wonderbar. Great, right? Wrong, kind of….while I want people to talk about the product and I want people to question anything and everything they put on their skin, it’s a little worrisome to someone as hands-on as I am when blatantly false info about the Wonderbar is put out there for public consumption. A few of the members of this forum have sort of decided, without ever having tried the product, that they know what it can and can’t do. They have also decided that they are going to use the product with all of their other skincare products, no matter what the recommendations are. Some have decided to use it once a day. Some have decided that it’s not really a cleanser, just an exfoliate. Some have decided that in the midst of the healing crisis, right around three weeks, it’s appropriate to stop. Some have decided that the whole notion of “getting worse before better” is not a good thing and that it’s too risky to push through anything the even remotely resembles something unfamiliar. Some have decided that it’s a huge conspiracy and that we PAY for reviews and testimonials. (That’s my personal favorite and SUCH a great way to spend the company’s money.) I want to step in, but I can’t. We live in a free country and we get to say anything we want. I urge you, though, before you invest in this product, to FOLLOW THE SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS and try not to listen to speculation. If you don’t use it correctly and consistently, it won’t work like it’s supposed to…..if you refuse, if you are SO skeptical that you won’t do it the way it’s meant to be done, if you can’t accept the simplicity, if you don’t want to LEARN about the product, than to you I say (in a loving way): Save your money, put away your credit card, this is probably not for you. Really. I’m just trying to be as direct as I can and I often say it to my own friends. You’re either on board or you’re not. AND, I ask you respectfully, if you are not going to use the product the way it was meant to be used, please do not review it and mislead the people who could and want to benefit from it.
If all of this is falling on deaf ears and you still want to buy the product and use it in a different way, just for your own amusement and/or for experimental purposes- go for it. It is your choice. WonderbarUSA just can’t be responsible for your results.
Before I go, I ask you to consider something. Wouldn’t it be lovely (favorite word) to look in your medicine cabinet and only see three things? Wouldn’t it be nice to have one product that actually works to combat your skin issues? Wouldn’t it be great to have skin that you don’t want or need to cover up?? I have to tell you, it’s not only lovely, nice and great, it’s a LOT easier on the pocket book too. And let’s be honest, I think we ALL can agree that that’s very appealing in this day and age. So quit pulling your hair out, sometimes the solution is not quite as complicated as you’ve been told it is.
http://wonderbarusa.com/blog/
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:30 pm |
It's an easy out to insist that the product only works when people use it exactly the way they're instructed to -- without explaining the significance of the instructions (chemical reactions with product mixes? interference with the bar's only miracle properties?). That way, when the bar doesn't work, it's clearly the customer's fault, not the bar!
It will be interesting to hear if the algae/clay combo has any worthwhile effects at all. |
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Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:57 pm |
| Star Model wrote: |
2nd - the action of the bar is not from the clay or seaweed, it is from the first 2 chemical ingredients in the bar - Disodium Lauryl Sulfosuccinate, Sodium Coco-Sulfate.
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What Science Says About Sodium Lauryl Sulfate
In its final report on the safety of sodium lauryl sulfate, the Journal of the American College of Toxicology notes that this ingredient has a "degenerative effect on the cell membranes because of its protein denaturing properties." What's more, the journal adds, "high levels of skin penetration may occur at even low use concentration."
Interestingly, sodium lauryl sulfate "is used around the world in clinical studies as a skin irritant," notes the journal. The publication expressed additional concerns:
Carcinogenic nitrosamines can form in the manufacturing of sodium lauryl sulfate or by its inter-reaction with other nitrogen-bearing ingredients within a formulation utilizing this ingredient.
Other studies have indicated that sodium lauryl sulfate enters and maintains residual levels in the heart, liver, lungs and brain from skin contact. This poses the question whether it could be a serious potential health threat from its use in shampoos, cleansers, and toothpastes.
Still other research has indicated sodium lauryl sulfate may be damaging to the immune system, especially within the skin. Skin layers may separate and inflame due to its protein denaturing properties.
Although sodium lauryl sulfate is not carcinogenic in experimental studies, it has been shown that it causes severe epidermal changes in the area it is applied, indicating a need for tumor-enhancing assays.
Additional studies have found that sodium lauryl sulfate is heavily deposited on the skin surface and in the hair follicles. Damage to the hair follicle could result from such deposition.
http://www.healthy-communications.com/sodium_lauryl_sulfat%20steinman.htm
Considering 'Sodium Cocoyl Sarcosinate' is also an anionic surfactant, the dangers are probably quite similar.
http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/Ltoxiccosmetics.htm#6
You guys are stripping all the goodness from your epidermal skin barrier... (Hopefully that's *all* it's doing.)
I've tried hard to keep my 2 cents out of this thread, but seeing what's going on with some, my conscience got the best of me. Anyway it's just MHO and thoughts.
Good luck to all! |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:49 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
Great questions that I hope we get answers to. (I sent an email to Tiffany with Lacy53's questions from the previous page and will report back when I get answers.)
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I am reporting back with the "answers". (Don't shoot the messenger! )
Per Tiffany/Wonderbar:
As you know, we are not the manufacturers. We are the distributors. The testimonials speak for themselves. I talk to hundreds of people a month who use the bar and I use it myself. The bar is helping many people combat skin issues that they have not been able to get under control in the past. This is the most important selling point for us. The bar is not considered a food or a drug. There is no problem with the labeling. C17789 is paraffin. I addressed this earlier on the forum. Chlorey'nahre is developed through the use of nanotechnology from European ingredients- the finished product is patented in France and called CLO- Chlorey'Nahre. In order to create a "bar", you have to use a binder. The binders in all bars have a high pH level. Wonderbar has a base that is pH balanced, which is patented. The bar has been sold in the United States since January of 2009. The Chlorey'nahre and the binder created for the bar set it apart from other bars. I have not been given the patent numbers by the manufacturer in Malaysia, nor was this one of our requirements to become distributors of the bar. We used it and liked what we saw. We continue to learn about benefits every day.
I have confidence in the product or I wouldn't be selling it. I don't think there is anything out there that is better, but that is just my opinion based on using it for a long time, and many people share my opinion after using the bar themselves. If I get into the business of going back and forth with people who want to debate every detail of the bar, then I am spending negative energy on defending the product, which I don't need to do. People can research the product and decide for themselves, or just try it, which is exactly what is happening here on this forum. The great news is that everyone gets to try different products and share their experiences with other people....and there are many products to choose from. As with any product, if you believe the claims are fraudulent, if you believe or suspect that the ingredients are unsafe or misrepresented somehow, if you think the manufacturer is illegally claiming patents, then you should absolutely not buy the product. It's really that simple.
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Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:16 am |
Hi, I haven't stopped using my other normal products. Although, I never used Retinol products or acids really (tried Vitamin C but didn't like it). Never really "stuck" with a skincare line either, been always searching for something that works.
Today I'm wearing liquid foundation & using DDF Advanced Moisture Defense UV Cream but I already bought it prior to the WB and sits better under makeup than CeraVe. (Still searching for a sunscreen...) Most days I skip foundation all together though, maybe that helps.
Lately at night, I've not been using anything because we've all been sick with colds but I still use Easy Eye Solutions. Last night I did notice my under-eye wrinkles looking worse though .I did find that it was a mistake to use my half-used jar of Fresh Creme Ancienne, way too heavy and caused some milia. So products that aren't so heavy, is definitely better.
Guess I'll see how it goes...after today of clogging my pores that is. |
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ReAura/Tria Face & Eye, Baby Quasar MD Plus, Derminator (age 4 |
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Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:48 pm |
Sorry Josee I was adressing surficants!
Sunday, February 24, 2008
Soap vs. Detergent
There's a lot of confusion out there about detergents and soaps. Some companies say that their detergents "don't dry your skin out like soap" and some soap companies say their products "don't irritate skin like detergents." So who's right? What's better--a soap or a detergent? Let's start out with the basics by looking at how each is made.
Detergents (or surfactants) are synthetic compounds that have been created through a chemical process. The most widely-used detergent, sodium lauryl sulfate, is created by reacting sulfuric acid with dodecanol (a fatty alcohol) adding a few other chemicals, heating it up, adding more chemicals, and so forth. On average, there are about ten steps between the original raw materials and the final detergent. Soaps on the other hand, are created by mixing a fat (usually a vegetable oil) with caustic soda (like lye or potassium hydroxide). Soaps have been created like this for hundreds (maybe thousands) of years. Detergents, on the other hand, have only been around for a few decades.
It can be confusing because often detergents are packaged like soaps. Most of the commerically produced "soap" bars out there aren't really soaps at all. Look carefully at their packaging. Do they list a bunch of chemicals? Some common ones would be cocomidopropyl betaine and sodium laureth sulfate. If there are a lot of confusing chemicals listed, you've got a synthetic detergent. Legally, detergents cannot label themselves as soaps. You'll notice their packaging will say "facial bar" or "body cleansing bar." On the other hand, if the package lists oils and "saponified" oils, you're using a true soap, not a detergent. Detergents and true soaps can be both liquid and solid.
http://bubbleandbee.blogspot.com/2008/02/soap-vs-detergent.html
HTH |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:05 am |
| DarkMoon wrote: |
I can't help but wonder if you can reap whatever benefits of algae by purchasing one of the many algae powders and a nice powdered clay from any health food store and mixing your own mask? That way you can also use as needed for your skin type, more often on oily less often on dry skin, and it would be a fraction of the cost.  |
Ok so I've been looking into this a little bit. It seems (based on wonderbar related websites) that the Chlorey’nahre is an extract of Chlorella Sorokiniana.
So I looked to see what is so special about it.
The special things are:
a. It has PPAR agonists. A manufacturer of Chlorella extracts says that it has PPARs alfa, beta and gamma. The only published study of PPAR and Chlorella I could find studied only alfa and gamma.
PPAR alfa and beta agonists seem to have an antiproliferating efect in the epidermis. In one study though (in patients with psoriasis) PPAR beta seemed to increase proliferation.
The skin has mostly PPAR beta.
PPARs also interat with Retinod X receptors (RXR) though I haven't looked at what they do yet.
b.Phycocyanin: may have antioxidant properties (have not researched this claim)
Now... what amount of these things the bar has, whether they penetrate the stratum corneum or not... is something we don't know. |
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37, light brown hair, green eyes, very fair skin. Oily T zone, broken capillaries... Current regime: Tretinoin 0.05% every night, hydroquinone 4% twice per day, lachydran every other day, random moisturizers and sunscreen |
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Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:35 am |
No...S.Corneum sheds off anyway but its replaced ...I do not think a bar of soap penetrates the deeper layers of skin which is protected by complex layers of lipids...Riley...maybe am wrong ...  |
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Acne-prone skin ,Olive Complexion, using Derma pen ( MYM) ,Used LS & STOP,Got POSE and never used it.. Also got TRIA never used it...Microcurrent Tx and added Facial Detox massage and CP serum so far its pretty good |
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Sat May 22, 2010 10:09 pm |
| livvyn wrote: |
hi,
i have been following the thread and using the wonderbar for 7 weeks now. i love it and i think it's a shame that the people on here who are trying to say it's a big marketing scheme have never even tried it. |
People are simply pointing out the fact that wonderbar is making up a theory with absolutely no biological basis to try to explain the side effects of the soap. That is considered, at least in my book, a big marketing scheme. BTW, wonderbar is not the first or the last company to do so... sadly inaccurate marketing claims are quite common in the cosmetic industry.
And since a lot of people know some biology, they don't need to try a bar of soap to know that the explanation behind its side effects is sound or not.
That does not mean, however, that the bar might not work for XYZ problem.
| livvyn wrote: |
| Most people actually want to know if it works and don't care about all the conspiracy theories and silliness that has taken over this thread! |
Actually, I would hope that people would care A LOT about whether a company is honest or not and whether a company is accurate on its claims or not. And I'll tell you why: most cosmetic products do not undergo FDA testing and inspection. So for example (and this is based on a true story btw), I can claim that my "natural" cream XYZ has all-natural ingredients and it's great for inflammation. So people start trying it and all say "oh my God, it's so great for inflammation... I had dermatitis and it cured it in 24 hours, this is amazing, etc, etc.). Now upon inspection, it is found that the cream actually has cortisone, and not only has cortisone, but it also has it in a way higher amount than allowed. Well... no wonder people were saying that it was great for inflammation, but 2 months later people suffered the consequences of using a high-cortisone cream for that long.
Another example: a "bleaching" cream, made with nice and mysterious ingredients. People saying "oh it works great, my sunspots/melasma are gone, I can't believe it!". Well... the cream contained 10% hydroquinone, which is more than recommended. Also, since HQ is an irritant and in high concentrations causes more side effects, the companies were claiming that the side effects were just "the cream cleaning up your spots"
So I believe it is VERY important (esp. for cosmetics) for a company to be 100% accurate and if you catch a company being inaccurate... how do you know it's also not being inaccurate on other issues? How do you know that the ingredients mentioned are correct?
So far, the wonderbar has claimed a story with no biological basis for its side effects, and has claimed a pH that does not seem to match the pH independent people are measuring. Personally, I'm not impressed.
Again, that does not mean it might not work. |
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37, light brown hair, green eyes, very fair skin. Oily T zone, broken capillaries... Current regime: Tretinoin 0.05% every night, hydroquinone 4% twice per day, lachydran every other day, random moisturizers and sunscreen |
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Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:09 am |
Oh I just realized that I never wrote down the pH of the bar with a sample generously provided by Rileygirl.
So I basically measured (well, not me the lab!) several pieces of the soap. For soaps the way you measure the pH is a bit different than for regular solutions.
Anyways, there were 10 measurements ranging from 6.25 to 7.05. So... for all the ones out there that are getting dry skin due to it.... now you have the reason
Personally, there's no way I'd put anything with that pH on my dear face |
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37, light brown hair, green eyes, very fair skin. Oily T zone, broken capillaries... Current regime: Tretinoin 0.05% every night, hydroquinone 4% twice per day, lachydran every other day, random moisturizers and sunscreen |
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