Facial Exercises: why is stretching/rubbing/pulling good?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:42 am

Redtigerwoman â€“ its very common what your describing (about looking better after a day or 2 off exercises) and Iâ€™d like to help explain why this happens and how its actually a sign that what your doing is having a good effect. I donâ€™t know which program your using, but I teach and work with FlexEffect so Iâ€™ll use that program as an example. With our resistance exercises, its about causing microdamage to muscles to encourage the body to repair them and heal up stronger for the future. So I often tell people to train with the exercises 5 days of each week with 2 days off. Now most people beginning always report the same. That they look better say on Sunday afternoon (their 2nd day off). I then explain to them whats happened is that theyâ€™ve allowed their body extra recuperation time. So their body goes into overdrive at not only repairing but also preparing for the next challenge. That extra 2nd day off is literally a vacation to the muscles and they relax and often youâ€™ll see the relaxation is very visible in their faces. Of course this happens frequently during a personâ€™s first year of training, but for most people after they have done the workouts for a while what you start to notice is that the face doesnâ€™t show the same signs of stress and tear that it previously did because its more familiar with working out etc.

I havenâ€™t found anyone who I can honestly say facial exercise is bad for â€“ and almost everyone Iâ€™ve worked with has said how different they have felt the day after a session with me (and sometimes in sessions I make them do a lot more sets of a particular exercise they have been struggling with just to make sure their form and technique is correct and that they know it) and if I do so I always advise them to rest two days before beginning it themselves and they always seem to get excited and make contact with me that they see a major improvement on the 2nd day for that very same reason.

At FlexEffect weâ€™ve been suggesting that exercise and massage should be done and that one is not more important than the other because both truly deliver amazing benefits and when carried out together are a fantastic team. So please donâ€™t give up and donâ€™t be hard with yourself. Only inevitable is change, but it doesnâ€™t mean that change is always bad â€“ sometimes change is and can be good â€“ ESPECIALLY where GROWING OLDER is concerned!

redtigerwoman wrote:

sometimes i feel i look worse after a day or 2 off of exercises. i have stopped doing them and replaced it with lightstim.

i wonder if it's possible face exercising is good for some people but not others.

massage seems to be better for me. maybe i just haven't found the right exercises...

free skin care · Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:59 am

I have never ever seen any medical facts saying that small stretching is bad and particularly the kind and type we do at Flexeffect. I’m really interested if anyone does read anything please do let me know - as all the medical and dermatology books I’ve read never say something along those lines. Whilst there are some few individuals who have thin and delicate skin types, I often wonder if they have such skins because they never stimulated it.

For most people there are ways of starting out gently, and just like we know for a fact now that stretching for the body is a good thing and improves overall strength, if you compare that to 30 years ago there were several leading doctors who said (almost stated as fact) that stretching was very bad for the body. Same is true for bodybuilding, in the beginning doctors said that it wasn’t a good thing, and that could never have an effect and we now know for fact that nothing could be further from the truth. So there are of course horror stories out that there are used to scare people, and people will always try to assure others that anything is bad, but I liken that to facial exercises.

Even when we go back to the originals like Stamford Bennett and Frederick Rossiter and Sante Marie Runge (plus there were others – even dating back to the Egyptian times – who knows maybe Cleo did them), they were ridiculed at the time, as was I’m sure Carole Maggio when she started out, but like most things the proof really is in the pudding and there are ways of going to an extreme and over massaging the eyes in the beginning so they become puffy but this is never permanent damage. Hell in my case in the beginning when I massaged my lids they puffed up like no tomorrow, however over time they’ve gotten used to it and now realise they not being under attack and show no signs of stress or puffiness at all.

free skin care · Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:23 pm

The only argument of Nonie's that I agree with is the matter of photographs. I think the FE trainers should post more photographs of themselves. It would definitely give more confidence to other flexers. I am sure they all look good, but I would like to see it for myself. All you can find are random outdated pictures every once in a while. Afterall, they are always asking for pictures of the trainers. I know it is very helpful for them to see pictures of your problem areas in order to guide you. But, I think they need to reciprocate. I have to say though, I am well aware of how Deb looks. She looks wonderful on her latest DVD. And I won't qualify this by saying "for her age". She looks wonderful period. Those eyes!

By the way, I love pinching and rolling my face (you know the scary stretching and pulling). My skin has never been thicker. It's unbelievable what it can do.

free skin care · Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:15 pm

WOW! Thank you Cathy for putting your pictures up. I don't know how old you are, but do know many a 30 something who would be jealous of that jawline!

free skin care · Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:32 pm

I'm 51. the pictures by year- 07 i was 47 I was 50 (almost 51) at my son's wedding. it io say 2010 for his wedding. NOT 2011. I will see if I can edit. i am now now almost 52.

free skin care · Sat Nov 12, 2011 8:02 pm

Nonie aka AD wrote:

IMCathy wrote:

here is one takien during a derma rolling experiment trying to get rid of the line between by brows.
It really did nothing.
It did not get worse, or better.

IMCathy Sorry I got your name wrong in the previous post, I was so excited to see your pics I didn't take good note of your name; forgive me.

I love your photo in color. I also love your honesty. BTW, the line between your brows isn't bad. I don't think most people would notice it if you didn't point it out. I think we are sometimes our worst critics.

Thanks again for the pics. Very much appreciated.

Thanks Nonie. (and everyone else for your compliments)

btw Nonie- you look wonderful!

free skin care · Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:21 am

Quote:

I'm sorry I don't get it. I read the four articles you linked to and I still don't see how what's happening inside and outside CELLS (tiny little microscopic units) or mechanical tension caused to units of that scale has to do with stress or tension caused when we pull on chunks of muscle FIBERS or skin. I don't see how grabbing a chunk of skin/muscle, which means you're grabbing oodles of fibroblasts within it (not stretching them) will have the stretching effect we are talking about that is the cause of collagen production.

If we are talking about the skin stretching procedure (Cross Stretching) found in FlexEffect Facialbuilding then the following applies.

Cross Stretching has nothing to do with grabbing muscle and pulling - elongating the muscle. Stretching the muscle to its fullest potential does not overly stretch the skin as the skin is capable of following the full length of its underling muscle without causing damage. If it were not, we would have some pretty ripped up bodybuilders...I’m talking stretch marks...not vascularity.

Cross Stretching is all about stretching the SURFACE of the skin slightly beyond normal levels. This action causes inflammation that kicks in Neuropeptides that jumpstarts wound healing and that’s when Fibroblasts spring into action creating collagen.

Note: If a person is unhealthy...they should forgo ANY form of unnecessary tissue breakdown. This judgment call is, and should be, left to the trainee NOT the trainer

For what it’s worth, I am fully aware that no other facial training program has EVER suggested stretching the skin. Does that bother me? ... NO...I LOVE IT!

free skin care · Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:01 pm

TheresaMary wrote:

Ok lets point out the obvious error, its cross stretching not cross stitching.

I think with it being new – its very unlikely to have any full blown unquestionable scientific studies done. I do think though its also worth while pointing out that to date, Flexeffect is one of the only programs I know of that has a study behind it. I know Gary at Happy Face Yoga one time emailed me saying he was considering commissioning a study on Happy Face Yoga, but to date, I’m not actually aware of any program having any full scientific studies behind it as yet (including the two that you promote Nonie, please let me know if there are some as I would be interested).

Now I believe they have already said a beginner should not begin with cross stretching, and its explained in great detail in the book and program, and I’ve seen recommendations of up to 6 months somewhere. When I purchased my 3rd edition kit, I paid no attention to that and went straight in, but was not the only one as dear Kassy from EDS, and several others also did and we all had great results. I actually got rid of my NLs. I also had been doing facial exercises since my 50’s so I had 10 years under my belt when I went to do so.

What you do know of FlexEffect is so out of date, and you keep on referring to it constantly as though what happened to you still happens and I’m sorry but its absolutely silly and doesn’t benefit anyone. You had a bad reaction to it, but in all honesty even when I look at your photos I can’t see there being a huge difference apart from the fact that you had a bit more weight than your after photos and you were smiling in the before photos. If I was to take a photo of me smiling now, and then one of me not smiling I could put them side by side and put the same post as you and no one would be any the wiser.

Theresa

Hi TheresaMary First of all, from the questions I asked about Cross Stretching/Cross Stitching--shows you how much I know about it--it was obvious I know little about it. So even the stuff you are has been explained is news to me because as much as I've been in this discussion, it wasn't until Deb showed up that that type of stretching was brought into the discussion. And until now, only you and she have been discussing it. What everyone else in this thread has been discussing has been stretching in general found in programs that have resistance training. I do not think people should start face exercises with any stretching or pulling. Flexers disagreed with me on this. I said I believe it can cause sag and know of many who have found this to be the case. Aprile said the same thing.

So you telling me what Flexers are told to do about Cross Stretching has no bearing on this discussion because that's not what we were talking about. But if they are indeed being told not to start with stretching, then it means we're all on the same page on that. I agree. I even said earlier that it's a good thing that FE now does tell people to start slowly and also trainers do cater the program according to needs of people. Anyway as far as stretching is concerned, Even Deb didn't start face exercises with stretching her face, but first laid a foundation with isometrics then later added resistance training. So why that order of doing face exercise seems like it's a bad idea to some is just mind-boggling to me.

Also it's funny you say that the FE program I did is outdated, yet people are still doing the very same program. There's not been a recall of sorts with everyone getting the new program to replace the "faulty" one. Or is there some sort of favoritism so that only those who can afford the more expensive "new and improved" version are the only ones entitled to doing the program that is not "faulty" and who are entitled to "the good stretching". (CM said there is good and bad stretching, so I'm guessing the 3rd Edition has the good one? Coz from my own experience the stretching in the second one was bad.)

Anyway I also don't understand how your contribution of what is in a program that we know nothing about is helping answer Sandymay's question. Unless your point was to echo my sentiments and tell her that if she got 3rd Edition FE, she should not get to stretching her face until after 6 months?

Last but not least, you need to quit with the BS. You seem unable to join a discussion without stirring trouble. I was not fat when that photo was taken and I posted a photo of myself in my leotard taken then.I'm about 10-15 lbs heavier than I was then today. For the record I was a size 4 and about 115 lbs. The photos taken before FE were of me at the same size and I didn't swallow a pig and get fat in 4 months. FE happened. So please cut the crap out. No one here was talking about that anymore anyway, so I don't know why you'r bringing it up. Havana8 took those posts down so we could stick to the discussion at hand and she was very clear about that. Why you have to be so disrespectful, I have no idea!

Honestly!

free skin care · Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:48 am

cm5597 wrote:

http://www.carolynsfacialfitness.com/dvd-clip

... I still am perplexed, Nonie, why you detest stretching the skin but do CFF's aggressive rubbing of the skin technique, which clearly involves aggressive stretching and rubbing of the skin...

cm5597 - I do CFF and this movement/exercise is NOT 'aggressive rubbing', but is rather, as I term and experience it, a 'sliding/massaging with slight pressure'.

free skin care · Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:13 pm

cm5597 wrote:

HippoMe,

How firmly do you press the skin? It really looks to me like in the demo video that Carolyn is pressing quite firmly against her skin, as her eye tissue seems to be moving about ~ 1 cm away from its resting position. Is this just an illusion from the low resolution video? Also, Carolyn seems to be very big on rubbing out wrinkles, hence combining the two, I really thought that she was using firm pressure. Just curious.

Thanks for chiming in and correcting me, if I misunderstood.

cm5597, I have just finished doing my CFF exercises for today. I press down quite firmly on the outer corners of my eyes and then slide my thumbs outwards from the edge of my eyes to my temple - slide with slight pressure, the skin does not in fact move as while I am sliding out I am closing my eyes tightly and the skin is taut/tight at the outer eye area. In no way do I stretch the skin. My eye-tissue does not move at all, my thumbs move on top of my skin. Hmmmm, let me see, make a fist with your left hand ... now slide your right thumb with slight pressure down the back of your hand. Does the skin move? Mine doesn't. This is similar to the feeling I get while doing this specific eye exercise.

Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:36 pm

Given that this thread continues to be bumpy, we would like to remind everyone to please consider your tone when posting and that you make your point without sarcasm or any personal references whatsoever. Any posts that include those will be deleted irrespective of any useful content they may have. Posts should be made in a civilised manner without sending somebody else's blood pressure up. Thank you.

free skin care · Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:21 pm

I completely agree with Nonie aka AD that bulking up the face is not for everyone, particularly the ones on the younger side... so beginners should start with the non-resistance/ low resistance exercises and then if necessary step up... I really liked Ellie's, the 70 year old lady on youtube, kiss exercise to start with... even though it did involve some resistance but without the use of hands n fingers..... that exercise is perfect for toning the face and giving it a slight lift IMO

free skin care · Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:52 pm

I agree with Lotusesther and Nonie; unless the person is already nutrient deficient, face exercises alone would not need to get extra nutrition for.... face muscles are way to small; I would say 50 or so faces would equal a person's thigh in terms of muscle weight....

free skin care · Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:18 pm

daler wrote:

I agree with Lotusesther and Nonie; unless the person is already nutrient deficient, face exercises alone would not need to get extra nutrition for.... face muscles are way to small; I would say 50 or so faces would equal a person's thigh in terms of muscle weight....

FWIW, I agree as well. The extra protein you need to support the tiny muscles in the face is small. For each pound of muscle that you add to your body, the estimates are that you burn an extra 35 to 50 calories per day, and I would be surprised if you could add more than about a pound or so of muscle to your face each year.

That said, there have been a couple people on the FE forum whose faces were doing poorly until they added more protein, on Sean's helpful advice. In these cases, I'd wager that they must have been protein deficient to begin with. And there have been at least a couple of people who were on low-carb diets whose facial fullness was improved by adding carbs back to their diets, again based on Sean's encouragement.

So overall, I agree that suboptimal nutrition will impact training to some degree. However, dietary problems that completely or severely impede results seem to be the exception to the rule.

free skin care · Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:50 am

I just want to jump in and say that I don't think that anyone is disagreeing with the fact that nutrition is important...

What the disagreement is about is (1) the degree to which extra attention needs to be put on diet during facial training AND (2) how much a bad diet can impede training.

On the first point, some people (myself included) think that very little extra attention needs to be paid to it, because if you're already eating a healthy diet, then you just need to eat a wee bit large portions of what you are already eating.

This is what I believe that daler and Lotusesther mean when they say just eating a bit more calories. They are not meaning empty calories, just slightly increase the portions of foods one is already eating. And the body tends to do this quite naturally.

On the second point, it's rare that diet is so bad that someone will have no progress or things will get worse. I mean, just look at some of the bodybuilders in any gym. Some of them eat lots of pizza, chicken wings, soda, and very few veggies, and they can still put on large amounts of muscle.

I completely agree that there's no question that since nutrition is important to training progress, they would be doing even better if they ate healthy and balanced diets. And I also totally agree with Sean that diet is one of the most powerful anti-aging tools we have. But, that said, my point is that it's rare that nutrition is such a problem that a person can't put on ANY muscle. After all, in research studies on the elderly, with people above age 80, virtually all of them can still put on significant amounts of muscle and increase their bone mass, regardless of diet.

free skin care · Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:34 am

fawnie wrote:

Agree w/TM about the "smoker's lines". Its not just the puffing, its the collagen degradation from nicotine and its byproducts and the oxygen steal from the skin. Also, its hormonal depletion causing the lines, as an OBGYN once told me. And UV damage.

I quit smoking many years ago and with needling, exercises and topicals have eliminated any lip lines now. I dont do HRT tho.

This is a question for Nonie: which Eva Fraser eye exercise gave you the most bang for your buck?

Yes... good question Fawnie. Would love to know what Nonie thinks.

Not smoking or quitting smoking is the best beauty thing anyone can do. Smoking decreases blood flow to the area. Blood is life! Constriction of vessels causes depletion of nutrients, reduces healthy blood flow, and generally causes sluggish cell turnover. The lines develop easily and it's even worse inside the mouth to the gums. Nicotine and other toxins are in cigs and they cause another level of destruction in and around the mouth. The immune system is in havoc.

free skin care · Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:13 am

fawnie wrote:

This is a question for Nonie: which Eva Fraser eye exercise gave you the most bang for your buck?

Fawnie, you must remember I started Eva's face exercises when I had no sign of aging whatsoever. So as far as giving me more bang for my buck, I couldn't really tell when I wasn't really fixing anything. I had hooded eyes all right but they are hereditary. You can see my eyes as a baby did not show any eyelid whatsoever:

And then my eyes when I was 20 before I did face exercises:

But nothing needed to be fixed as far as I was concerned. I started the exercises just so I could onto the youthfulness I had as long as possible. But in the years I was doing the WHOLE program, while everything else just got firmer, my eyes did change to this :

Notice though that part of why my eyes look good is because my forehead too is lifted and smooth because it too got exercised. Also I think what may have happened is everything else was at its optimum tone...so I suppose just the upper eyelids needed more work. My lower eyelids looked good too on July 3, 2005 as did the rest of my face:

http://images41.fotki.com/v9/photos/3/31573/3146130/eforeaggressivefacialexercises-vi.jpg

I had no idea the upper eyelid lift was happening because it was very gradual and only caught on when I read on the Flex Effect website that face exercises can lift eyes and then wondered if they really had done anything to mine. I looked for old photos of my eyes and you could have knocked me over with a feather because I was staring at a natural bleph that I never even knew had happened right under (well above Very Happy

) my nose.

The exercise that targets the upper eyelids and to which I attributed this change before I realized that it got help from all the other exercises I was doing, is the upper eyelid exercise shown on Eva's website:
http://www.evafraser.com/facial_fitness.html It is an exercise found in just about every face exercise program there is (which is why this eyelift happens in all programs)...but I don't believe it alone will bring out the lift people would like. All the muscles above the eyes need to be lifted too...and you will find most people who get that change are doing a complete program.

You can see the same change happening in other programs too. This exercise not only lifts hooded lids but also creates a crease in a monolid like you see on Asian eyes. You can see it near the end of the slide on Judith Olivia's website: http://www.facelady.com/beforeafter.htm

You can see the lift happening in Elaine's eyes if you look at her photos on her website:
http://www.faceworks.co.uk/results/

You can see the lift happened in Cecilia's eyes within a couple of months of doing Flex Effect (but her eyes still had a lot of youthful tone hence the quick results)...so don't feel discouraged if yours don't respond as fast:

And then you can see it in CFF's Carolyn's eyes. She was 53 in the first photo below which is when she was starting face exercises. Note how you couldn't see her eyelids then. Then pic to the right shows her eyes at the age of 60 after about 7 years of face exercises and you can see her eyelids are very exposed:

You can also see it in Nancy's eyes (Facial Magic):

Again, all these people do complete programs. So do not get obsessed with fixing just one area of your face. Work your whole face and trust that when all the muscles tone up, everything will tie in together nicely and you will look better than ever. Do not overwork any one part because usually a problem you see in one area may have nothing to do with the muscles in that area. It could be muscles elsewhere that are slackened and so creating a droop and not supporting/lifting the ones in the area you are not happy with. So work the entire face. The toned muscles will stay toned and the weaker ones will eventually catch up in tone in due time.

Also don't keep looking for progress or expect results within a certain time frame. Everyone's face is different so I don't think anyone can tell anyone how long before they see results in their own face. I have never set deadlines when working towards something, and I can tell you the surprise you get when results come when you aren't looking for them is beyond rewarding/exhilarating.

When I recently updated my photos with the shape of my lower face/laugh lines, it was because that change came to me by surprise. When I started CFF in 2007, I had laugh lines I hated and I did initially try to "work harder" on exercises I thought would fix them. This was not making things better. Carolyn advised me against doing that and told me to do the whole program. As you know, I was happy with laugh lines after 8 months of working the whole face. So back then I would never have guessed that in my 7th year I would still be seeing changes that I was not looking for but which happen to improve my face and make me happier than before.

In other words, committing to a program in its entirety and just doing it, even if results seem slow in coming (as long as nothing is looking worse), is a good habit to adopt. It makes for a stress-free journey because we all know a watched pot never boils. So as long as your face appears to be looking the same (not getting worse), quit checking for change and just follow Nike's advice w/r/t the exercise program and "Just Do It!" Let results come when they will. Treat this as just another part of your daily grooming regimen, like combing your hair. You do it because it is part of your routine, not because you think combing your hair today will transform it to look like some model's hair you admire. Every seed you sow adds to the bounty that you will reap in the end so keep sowing.

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.