The Sqoom
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free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:16 pm

Idealist wrote:

Also for those interested, I bought a refurbished model, and was thrilled with both the price and the quality. It may as well be brand new. Customer service is fantastic also.

Idealist, did you purchase the refurb Fyola from ebay?

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:19 pm

foxe wrote:

daler wrote:

wishee wrote:

(ps anyone know what helps build elastin?)

Hi wishee, I dont think there are any actives which can build elastin but betulinic acid, Phloretin, ceramides helps to prevent it's degradation.

I think skin needling and reaura laser n like may promote new elastin.

Actually, I believe that copper peptides are noted for helping to 'increase synthesis' of elastin & collegen(among other things). It's a nice topical that is not too expensive to try, wishee ,if you want to look into that. It helped firm up my skin quite a bit when I first started using it. You can PM me for more info if you like.

great, I didnt know that... can I pm u too for more info? thanks

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:52 pm

bethany wrote:

Idealist wrote:

Also for those interested, I bought a refurbished model, and was thrilled with both the price and the quality. It may as well be brand new. Customer service is fantastic also.

Idealist, did you purchase the refurb Fyola from ebay?

That is what I meant, yes.

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 2:56 pm

Idealist wrote:

bethany wrote:

Idealist wrote:

Also for those interested, I bought a refurbished model, and was thrilled with both the price and the quality. It may as well be brand new. Customer service is fantastic also.

Idealist, did you purchase the refurb Fyola from ebay?

That is what I meant, yes.

Thanks! Since we started talking about that here and everyone started watching the auction, they increased the price dramatically. Last week it was $109, and this one just sold for $159. Rolling Eyes

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Facial-machine-30-Days-Younger-Looking-Skin-Fyola-Old-Model-Original-289-/121169467168?pt=US_Skin_Care&hash=item1c36435720

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:31 pm

Idealist wrote:

I have been using my fyola/merbe/sqoom since May, and can happily say wrinkles I have had for ten years have completely gone bye bye.

Idealist, are you using Fyola gel for your treatments? And do you used water-based actives beneath it?

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:48 pm

I managed to talk him down to $99 for mine. It came with gel, carry bag, etc. I still haven't tried to see how long it holds a charge for, as I always pop it back in its cradle. I keep meaning to, as its something I would like to take on longer trips. I decided to take the mini MC on the 6 day trip I just went on, and I am sorry to say it just didn't cut it, especially as I needed to look my best. I missed the fyola. I use it every other day or so, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on what I feel my skin needs. But if I am looking like I need a pick me up, a quick session will do it for me. Sometimes I am sure I have spent at least 32 mins at a time over the face/neck without any problems. As I clear the lymph in my neck upper chest first (after cleansing if I am doing it), I find that takes at least 8 mins, and I will also cover the neck area again on the different modes.

Typically after cleansing, which I don't always do, but find it does result in an amazingly clear and tiny-pored complexion (and big pores have been my problem forever), I always do a session on massage, followed by lifting, or nutrition, and if I have time and depending on what product I am using, I will use the wrinkle or even whitening program over my cheekbones/forehead.

Products I love to use with it include home-made serums based on niacinimide, coffebean extract, ECGC, ginger and genistein, and a bunch of other things I can't remember but can dig up if asked. I also love a once fortnightly treatment with dermalogica multivitamin face mask, which becomes super powerful with the U/S (sprayed with water or rose water). Now that I have read the article Keliu posted, it makes a lot of sense given it contains glycolic, salyclic and retinols plus C and other goodies. Anything I use it with gets supercharged into the skin. I have had to be particularly careful not to sensitize my skin and be aware of good barrier health practices. Over stripping the skin and then using the U/S will very quickly give you an idea of how well it works, even if it does feel like it isn't doing anything to some people - not me - I can tell the differences between the different programs, and even sense the depth of treatment and certain frequency pulsing. But I have sensitive skin.

Anyway, I hope more people begin to feel the love for ultrasound. It will not give you a facelift, but I believe it can certainly improve skin texture and tone, reduce wrinkling, and also promote some tightening of lax skin, by flushing out stagnant waste and bringing in plenty of new nutrition. I was inspired by Karenlee and other info I had read, and believe others will find plenty to like about these devices, especially the better quality ones. I also think that unlike some other products, it is not fraught with possibilities of ugly stages, or not being quite clear how to use it. Even slowly circling the treatment head over the area you want to treat will achieve what you need.

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:15 pm

Hi LowbrowScientist. I have learned so much from your massive contributions so thankyou. I hope to learn much more. I used the fyola gel a bit for some slip, but to be honest, its still full, so probably only a couple of squirts. It's nice in combo with a wetting agent (water), and good over actives. I have just been using my own concoctions.

Please excuse my extreme long windedness, but I just wanted to add another thought. It doesn't really make sense to me that Karenlee's dramatic wrinkle reduction on her décolletage can be purely attributed to hydration although I agree it would certainly be a contributory factor. The main reason it clashes with my thinking is how long the results took to come the first time vs the second. Also how long those results stuck around before they began to revert to the original state, despite her still sleeping on her side or doing whatever it was that she did to create those lines to begin with. Hydration is something very transient from what I know. You can hydrate and dehydrate in the course of a couple of hours, both internally and superficially, so I just cannot wrap my head around why just Karenlee's dermis would hold onto whatever hydration or ulmw hyaluronic she infused into it many months before. This is not to say it is not possible, in fact that would be supercool and truly a cause to believe it can work like needle free fillers, if that was truly the reason her skin held up for so long before starting to go back to how it was.

Without any true proof I am really speculating, but I thought it may be because she truly experienced some positive skin changes. The reason being, why would it take so long to see the changes in the first place, yet it bounced back pretty quickly at second use? It makes no sense if all the hyaluronic and hydration had dissipated and she needed to replace the dermal reservoirs with a whole lot more. It should take a similar length of time to my reasoning (not that I am a scientist or even the smartest kid in the block. Just throwing what I thought out there). It would seem that there is an accumulative improvement in the skin that allows it to bounce back.

However, either way, I'll take it. Both over time will result in both positive aesthetic and physiological results.

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:42 pm

Idealist wrote:

It would seem that there is an accumulative improvement in the skin that allows it to bounce back.

Yes, I'm thinking (hoping!) the same thing. Perhaps while the Sqoom is keeping the moisture content up, that makes it possible for other benefits to take place that otherwise maybe couldn't. All speculation, but the Sqoom does sound promising!

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, Idealist! Smile

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:11 pm

Just an FYI that Dr. Serene just confirmed that I most likely have the beginning phases of Roseacea, which I have long suspected. Sad

I am going to go ahead and order the Sqoom MedGel RO that is supposed to help with this, as some pics she shared with me showed significant improvement in redness after as few as 6 treatments.

As always, I will keep everyone posted on my progress.

ETA: I just have to say that I am SOOOO excited about this. While I have some pigmentation along my jawline, it is the redness that drives me NUTS and I am so looking forward to getting rid of it. I am also glad that I am doing this shortly after my Visia so that we can see how much it does (or does not) improve.

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:52 pm

This is great information all, thank you.

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like the results are temporary, but *also* cumulative? i.e.- enough permanent improvement is noted so that you need to use it less often?

At this time, I am primarily focusing on permanent improvements, but anything that assists with product penetration is good enough for me as I occasionally also want a break from short needles.

Other comments have been made in the thread about clock turning and actives known to stimulate collagen...

I have effectively turned back the clock with a needling protocol. Other treatments more invasive as well...but the DIY was needling.

There are many actives shown to stimulate collagen.

BFG

free skin care · Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:16 pm

daler wrote:

foxe wrote:

daler wrote:

wishee wrote:

(ps anyone know what helps build elastin?)

Hi wishee, I dont think there are any actives which can build elastin but betulinic acid, Phloretin, ceramides helps to prevent it's degradation.

I think skin needling and reaura laser n like may promote new elastin.

Actually, I believe that copper peptides are noted for helping to 'increase synthesis' of elastin & collegen(among other things). It's a nice topical that is not too expensive to try, wishee ,if you want to look into that. It helped firm up my skin quite a bit when I first started using it. You can PM me for more info if you like.

great, I didnt know that... can I pm u too for more info? thanks

Sure can

Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:44 pm

Then there is this one -

http://www.truthinaging.com/ultra-renew-plus

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:00 am

Barefootgirl wrote:

I have effectively turned back the clock with a needling protocol.
BFG

Hi BFG

My point was that the clock is turned back for only so long as you pin down that clock hand with your finger - let go and that hand will wind back up to where it should have been.

In other words, whatever you do to make it *look* like the clock has turned back, is something you have to keep on doing... forever. There is no treatment that you can do for a year or two which will then allow you to stop forever and maintain those results (which would be a true turning back of the clock).

You probably need a program of 4 to 6 days a week in the gym to build new muscle, then you need to go at least 2 x week to maintain that muscle - doesn't matter how new that muscle is, if you don't keep going to gym (or doing whatever created it), then it WILL slowly become invisible and weak again.

So, I'm not disbelieving in the ability to stimulate collagen, I'm just saying that stimulated collagen is not a permanent state. Stop needling, and the collagen will settle back into its original state. Like muscle, the results won't disappear overnight, but they will disappear all the same.

For me, out of all the gadgets I have tried, the Sqoom is a winner because, like Idealist, I find it soothing to use, so (except for the expense of the gel) this is something I could easily use for long term maintenance.

Also, out of all my gadgets, it has been to only one to provide a *nice* immediate effect (the STOP provided very temp effects, only for about an hour, but that came with a reddened face, and no long term results that I ever noticed). Oh, the wonderwoman gadget provided nice results, and I found that quite relaxing too, but I also found the results only lasted a couple of hours, if that. (At least with the Sqoom, after a while you can space the treatments without loss of progress). The sticky pads on the wonderwoman gadget got annoying eventually, so I sold mine on eBay.

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:11 am

Idealist wrote:

It doesn't really make sense to me that Karenlee's dramatic wrinkle reduction on her décolletage can be purely attributed to hydration although I agree it would certainly be a contributory factor. The main reason it clashes with my thinking is how long the results took to come the first time vs the second. Also how long those results stuck around before they began to revert to the original state, despite her still sleeping on her side or doing whatever it was that she did to create those lines to begin with. Hydration is something very transient from what I know. You can hydrate and dehydrate in the course of a couple of hours, both internally and superficially, so I just cannot wrap my head around why just Karenlee's dermis would hold onto whatever hydration or ulmw hyaluronic she infused into it many months before. This is not to say it is not possible, in fact that would be supercool and truly a cause to believe it can work like needle free fillers, if that was truly the reason her skin held up for so long before starting to go back to how it was.

Without any true proof I am really speculating, but I thought it may be because she truly experienced some positive skin changes. The reason being, why would it take so long to see the changes in the first place, yet it bounced back pretty quickly at second use? It makes no sense if all the hyaluronic and hydration had dissipated and she needed to replace the dermal reservoirs with a whole lot more. It should take a similar length of time to my reasoning (not that I am a scientist or even the smartest kid in the block. Just throwing what I thought out there). It would seem that there is an accumulative improvement in the skin that allows it to bounce back.

However, either way, I'll take it. Both over time will result in both positive aesthetic and physiological results.

I think this is why I keep bringing up the gym as an analogy. I have recently returned to the gym after an 18 month layoff, and at 49, I was looking terrible. For the first time, ever I had cellulite on my legs, and everything was flabby. Those first few session were really hard, but not as hard as the very first time I ever pick up a dumbbell. My legs have improved significantly since I started a couple of months ago, and my arms where I didn't have a lot of fat are already looking quite defined. It's called muscle memory, and once you have established a baseline, the results come quicker each time after a long layoff.

So it seems almost as if there is something similar going on - but on my chest only. I can't swear to the same on my face as I do lots of stuff to my face anyway (been trying to get into a routine of face exercises, but oh my, I'm a lazy one) as I think it would be a perfect compliment to the Sqoom, creating new muscle in the face then maintaining it via Sqooming sound like the way to go). But even with doing other stuff to my face, if I haven't Sqoomed for a while then do it, there is a visible difference, a lovely healthy plumpness right away, which is why I lean towards the hydration explanation.

Either way, it makes no real difference to my own thoughts whether it's hydration or something deeper, because my belief is that whatever is going on under the skin will require me to keep using the gadget or lose the benefits.

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 5:58 am

Hi Karen,

I understand - the clock never stops.

I've just found that I can rewind it and then slow it down, but yes....maintenance required.

Thanks for all your info.

BFG

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:03 am

Hi idealist - I also have a TIA 3mhz - how do you do lymphatic drainage?
Thanks!

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:36 am

Does anyone know if it would be safe to use The Sqoom with copper peptides or AHAs?

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:56 am

Idealist where did you get yours from for $99? That is a bargain I can manage! Ha ha

Idealist wrote:

I managed to talk him down to $99 for mine. It came with gel, carry bag, etc. I still haven't tried to see how long it holds a charge for, as I always pop it back in its cradle. I keep meaning to, as its something I would like to take on longer trips. I decided to take the mini MC on the 6 day trip I just went on, and I am sorry to say it just didn't cut it, especially as I needed to look my best. I missed the fyola. I use it every other day or so, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on what I feel my skin needs. But if I am looking like I need a pick me up, a quick session will do it for me. Sometimes I am sure I have spent at least 32 mins at a time over the face/neck without any problems. As I clear the lymph in my neck upper chest first (after cleansing if I am doing it), I find that takes at least 8 mins, and I will also cover the neck area again on the different modes.

Typically after cleansing, which I don't always do, but find it does result in an amazingly clear and tiny-pored complexion (and big pores have been my problem forever), I always do a session on massage, followed by lifting, or nutrition, and if I have time and depending on what product I am using, I will use the wrinkle or even whitening program over my cheekbones/forehead.

Products I love to use with it include home-made serums based on niacinimide, coffebean extract, ECGC, ginger and genistein, and a bunch of other things I can't remember but can dig up if asked. I also love a once fortnightly treatment with dermalogica multivitamin face mask, which becomes super powerful with the U/S (sprayed with water or rose water). Now that I have read the article Keliu posted, it makes a lot of sense given it contains glycolic, salyclic and retinols plus C and other goodies. Anything I use it with gets supercharged into the skin. I have had to be particularly careful not to sensitize my skin and be aware of good barrier health practices. Over stripping the skin and then using the U/S will very quickly give you an idea of how well it works, even if it does feel like it isn't doing anything to some people - not me - I can tell the differences between the different programs, and even sense the depth of treatment and certain frequency pulsing. But I have sensitive skin.

Anyway, I hope more people begin to feel the love for ultrasound. It will not give you a facelift, but I believe it can certainly improve skin texture and tone, reduce wrinkling, and also promote some tightening of lax skin, by flushing out stagnant waste and bringing in plenty of new nutrition. I was inspired by Karenlee and other info I had read, and believe others will find plenty to like about these devices, especially the better quality ones. I also think that unlike some other products, it is not fraught with possibilities of ugly stages, or not being quite clear how to use it. Even slowly circling the treatment head over the area you want to treat will achieve what you need.

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:59 am

Moon wrote:

Does anyone know if it would be safe to use The Sqoom with copper peptides or AHAs?

Great question, and I'm wondering if I could use LAA with it.

Keliu posted this link earlier to a study that showed positive results using 2.5% salicylic acid followed by 10 minutes with a 2 mhz US treatment.

Excerpts:

Quote:

In most categories, patients found subjective benefit with and without an exfoliant. The evaluations were significantly improved in the coarse wrinkles, visual dryness, skin pigmentation, skin laxity, brown spot size, fine wrinkles, brown spot color, pore size, and overall improvement with ultrasound. (Table 2) Only roughness did not improve statistically after sonographic therapy. When ultrasound was combined with salicylic acid (2.5%), patient evaluations improved in all parameters except for roughness and visual dryness. (Table 3 )

...

An objective difference was seen in the masked physician arm in most categories when a mild exfoliant was added.

...

Additionally, when a glycolic acid was added after the ultrasound treatment significant improvement in skin elasticity and skin hydration was noted.16

So, SA applied before treatment showed a benefit, and GA applied after treatment showed a benefit.

Seems to me that this has been discussed elsewhere previously (CPs were probably discussed too), but I can't seem to find that info. There are some quirks to EDS's search feature that I need to get reacquainted with Embarassed

Apologies if this post is drifting off topic a bit -- Moon, at the very least, it looks like a low dose of SA might work really well with a Sqoom.

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:41 am

Lowbrowscientist wrote:

Moon wrote:

Does anyone know if it would be safe to use The Sqoom with copper peptides or AHAs?

Great question, and I'm wondering if I could use LAA with it.

Keliu posted this link earlier to a study that showed positive results using 2.5% salicylic acid followed by 10 minutes with a 2 mhz US treatment.

Excerpts:

Quote:

In most categories, patients found subjective benefit with and without an exfoliant. The evaluations were significantly improved in the coarse wrinkles, visual dryness, skin pigmentation, skin laxity, brown spot size, fine wrinkles, brown spot color, pore size, and overall improvement with ultrasound. (Table 2) Only roughness did not improve statistically after sonographic therapy. When ultrasound was combined with salicylic acid (2.5%), patient evaluations improved in all parameters except for roughness and visual dryness. (Table 3 )

...

An objective difference was seen in the masked physician arm in most categories when a mild exfoliant was added.

...

Additionally, when a glycolic acid was added after the ultrasound treatment significant improvement in skin elasticity and skin hydration was noted.16

So, SA applied before treatment showed a benefit, and GA applied after treatment showed a benefit.

Seems to me that this has been discussed elsewhere previously (CPs were probably discussed too), but I can't seem to find that info. There are some quirks to EDS's search feature that I need to get reacquainted with Embarassed

Apologies if this post is drifting off topic a bit -- Moon, at the very least, it looks like a low dose of SA might work really well with a Sqoom.

Agreed on the LOW DOSAGE salicylic, which is a BHA. But notice that they applied the glycolic (AHA) after a treatment and did not use ultrasound to penetrate it...possibly because glycolic already penetrates better on it's own?

I think ultrasound is similar to needling in that you need to be careful in what you apply...anything too strong, of the wrong pH, etc. could possibly cause problems. (which reminds me of the EDS person years ago who needled in a TCA peel and ended up with severe PIH Shock

)

Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:12 am

Rapunzell wrote:

Then there is this one -

http://www.truthinaging.com/ultra-renew-plus

Does anyone have an opinion on this one? I'm looking for a cheap version!

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:12 am

wishee wrote:

Rapunzell wrote:

Then there is this one -

http://www.truthinaging.com/ultra-renew-plus

Does anyone have an opinion on this one? I'm looking for a cheap version!

That is very close to the same price ($149 vs $159) for the refurb Fyola on ebay.

Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:19 am

bethany wrote:

wishee wrote:

Rapunzell wrote:

Then there is this one -

http://www.truthinaging.com/ultra-renew-plus

Does anyone have an opinion on this one? I'm looking for a cheap version!

That is very close to the same price ($149 vs $159) for the refurb Fyola on ebay.

I know! Still kicking myself for missing the boat on that one...

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:24 am

The TIA one is 3mhz though - as I understand it we need the 1mhz to get products deep enough?

free skin care · Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:51 am

Hi wishee, you can get the exact same model as seen on Truth in Aging on eBay for around $40-$50. This is the one I talk about being great for lymphatic drainage. The build quality and usability is definitely nowhere near the fyola/sqoom, which is a beautifully made device, but nonetheless the TIA Chinese model is great for lymphatic drainage (in fact better than the sqoom for this). Mine actually sends a strong charge into my hand as well, and I worry about using such a strong device too often (probably unnecessarily, but it is also not as pleasant to use as the sqoom, which also has many different settings and has a more soothing warmth to the treatment head on some settings).

I began using the treatment head similarly to how you would use your hands in a tanaka massage (if you can mentally make the shift). Basically a lot of lifting and many movements out to the side of the face, then sweeping down the ears and side of the neck which is where the lymph nodes are. I usually clear just above the sternum first, which is where all the lymph drains into. There are a lot of great videos on lymphatic drainage technique for those that haven't tried any kind of lymphatic massage before. The idea is that the lymphatic system is actually quite superficial to the skin so requires a relatively light touch. Unlike our venous system which has a pump (the heart), lymph relies on gravity and movement as well as levels of different hormones/minerals etc to take excess waste from tissues after nutrition has been used and by-products excreted by our cells. Ultrasound's rapid sound waves seems to move lymph along effortlessly, which is a miracle for those of us prone to puffiness, especially around the eyes or jawline. I find lightly clearing down the neck first by moving the ultrasound down both sides of the neck starting under the ear down to the clavicle and sometimes moving along the clavicle to the centre of the neck, and repeating this movement on both sides a number of times helpful. Next I move the treatment head along and under my jaw towards the ear, and work in 'stripes' towards the ears all the way up to the orbital bone. Every so often I will slide the head down beside my ear and down the neck again, to keep the lymph moving. Around the eyes I work around the entire orbit lightly in a clockwise movement, meaning I am clearing the eyebag towards my nose. Just below the 'bag' area gets cleared as usual towards the ears. On the forehead, either half gets worked in 'stripes' again down to the temples, occasionally repeating the movement past the ears and down the sides of the neck.

I find this massage which can be done in a relaxing ten minutes can clear a puffy face quite dramatically. Eyebags can be reduced quite profoundly. This is something I wish I had found years ago.

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