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Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:49 am  |
Thanks Dr. J, Dragon, and Kassy for help with the ingredient list.
I have been using both products for 2 weeks now and I am very pleased so far. My skin is no longer dry/flaky and I believe it is mainly the Accelerator that is keeping my skin so nice and moist. No irritation at all from the products, which has been a really nice change for my skin. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:56 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| doodles wrote: |
Bethany,
Just curious - do you still use your dermaroller? If you do are you planning on using the Cellese AnteAGE serum afterwards? Thanks, Doodles |
Hi Doodles! I have not rolled in close to 3 years, but have been thinking about doing one. However, I do not roll for product penetration, since even the .25mm cause inflammation for me.  |
We haven't studied this formally yet (plan to), but anecdotal comments suggest that inflammation following dermarolling (indeed any procedure that deliberately induces damage incl. lasers, lights, acids) is greatly reduced with stem cytokines. Shorter recovery time. Fits into the anti-inflammatory cytokine concept. which we hypothesize will also give you better results (e.g. scar free healing). |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:01 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| doodles wrote: |
Bethany,
Just curious - do you still use your dermaroller? If you do are you planning on using the Cellese AnteAGE serum afterwards? Thanks, Doodles |
Hi Doodles! I have not rolled in close to 3 years, but have been thinking about doing one. However, I do not roll for product penetration, since even the .25mm cause inflammation for me. |
We haven't studied this formally yet (plan to), but anecdotal comments suggest that inflammation following dermarolling (indeed any procedure that deliberately induces damage incl. lasers, lights, acids) is greatly reduced with stem cytokines. Shorter recovery time. Fits into the anti-inflammatory cytokine concept. which we hypothesize will also give you better results (e.g. scar free healing). |
Very interesting, provided that it does not reduce the wound healing cascade to the point that it negates the purpose of the roll. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:07 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
Both the serum and the accelerator spread very easily, and I loved that they had no discernable scent. I can see this layering very nicely under makeup.
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I put both the serum and the accelerator on this morning, and noticed about an hour later that the area around my nose was greasy. (the rest of my face is fine though) If that is due to the accelerator, I am not sure I would use that under makeup, or at least keep it away from your tzone if you tend to get oily there. |
Where I am ending up is that the serum/accelerator combo is great during the day (I would skip the accelerator near my nose if wearing makeup), but at night I feel like I need more moisturizer and started using my Nia24 IRC.
Dr. J - I do not wear sunscreen every day since I work from my home office and seldom leave the house during the week. Does this mean that the retinol in the accelerator is basically deactivated by the light? Should I only use it at night?
Thanks! |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:10 am |
I used both products for the first time last night and again this morning, obviously it is way too early to report any lasting results. I found the products very pleasant to use and they did sink in nicely (I did use my new PMD prior) which I would think helped with absorption to some extent. I had no irritation at all, no balling up and with the combination of freshly exfoliated skin I am defiantly glowing!
The packaging IMHO is very nice and sturdy, I will report more after longer usage. |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:23 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| doodles wrote: |
Bethany,
Just curious - do you still use your dermaroller? If you do are you planning on using the Cellese AnteAGE serum afterwards? Thanks, Doodles |
Hi Doodles! I have not rolled in close to 3 years, but have been thinking about doing one. However, I do not roll for product penetration, since even the .25mm cause inflammation for me. |
We haven't studied this formally yet (plan to), but anecdotal comments suggest that inflammation following dermarolling (indeed any procedure that deliberately induces damage incl. lasers, lights, acids) is greatly reduced with stem cytokines. Shorter recovery time. Fits into the anti-inflammatory cytokine concept. which we hypothesize will also give you better results (e.g. scar free healing). |
Very interesting, provided that it does not reduce the wound healing cascade to the point that it negates the purpose of the roll. |
Very astute observation. That's why the pattern of cytokines is important. They follow the stages of would healing. Early would healing is inflammatory in nature. Call up immune cells, etc. You don't want to amplify that. You want to amplify the later stages of would healing, where the damage has been cleared and you now in a rebuild stage. But the natural response will not be blocked if it needed.
Wound healing changes over our lifetime. As fetuses (and newborns) we can heal wounds remarkably, with no scars. In senescence, we have hard time healing any wound. These tendencies are reflected in regenerative dynamics (e.g. stem cell populations, cytokine patterns) and other key biochemical events.
Why is wound healing important to understand? - aging in some ways looks like a series of wounding events. Photoaging, chemical aging. So if aging is like 1000 paper cuts, why in the world would we want to wound our skin further (e.g. with dermarolling). Because damage is not the issue - but healing is. It is our healing that changes over a lifetime. Wounding causes regeneration at any age. Its just that we gradually lose our ability to do it like we did as infants. We gradually move from non-inflammatory to inflammatory (immune system driven) healing, as the population of stem cells that respond to such events diminishes. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:43 am |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
Both the serum and the accelerator spread very easily, and I loved that they had no discernable scent. I can see this layering very nicely under makeup.
|
I put both the serum and the accelerator on this morning, and noticed about an hour later that the area around my nose was greasy. (the rest of my face is fine though) If that is due to the accelerator, I am not sure I would use that under makeup, or at least keep it away from your tzone if you tend to get oily there. |
Where I am ending up is that the serum/accelerator combo is great during the day (I would skip the accelerator near my nose if wearing makeup), but at night I feel like I need more moisturizer and started using my Nia24 IRC.
Dr. J - I do not wear sunscreen every day since I work from my home office and seldom leave the house during the week. Does this mean that the retinol in the accelerator is basically deactivated by the light? Should I only use it at night?
Thanks! |
Retinoids are not deactivated by light once they are absorbed into your skin, and the light wavelengths and intensities you encounter indoors would have minimal effect anyway. Best if you can use it day and night. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:47 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
Both the serum and the accelerator spread very easily, and I loved that they had no discernable scent. I can see this layering very nicely under makeup.
|
I put both the serum and the accelerator on this morning, and noticed about an hour later that the area around my nose was greasy. (the rest of my face is fine though) If that is due to the accelerator, I am not sure I would use that under makeup, or at least keep it away from your tzone if you tend to get oily there. |
Where I am ending up is that the serum/accelerator combo is great during the day (I would skip the accelerator near my nose if wearing makeup), but at night I feel like I need more moisturizer and started using my Nia24 IRC.
Dr. J - I do not wear sunscreen every day since I work from my home office and seldom leave the house during the week. Does this mean that the retinol in the accelerator is basically deactivated by the light? Should I only use it at night?
Thanks! |
Retinoids are not deactivated by light once they are absorbed into your skin, and the light wavelengths and intensities you encounter indoors would have minimal effect anyway. Best if you can use it day and night. |
Got it...thanks! |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 9:49 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| bethany wrote: |
| doodles wrote: |
Bethany,
Just curious - do you still use your dermaroller? If you do are you planning on using the Cellese AnteAGE serum afterwards? Thanks, Doodles |
Hi Doodles! I have not rolled in close to 3 years, but have been thinking about doing one. However, I do not roll for product penetration, since even the .25mm cause inflammation for me. |
We haven't studied this formally yet (plan to), but anecdotal comments suggest that inflammation following dermarolling (indeed any procedure that deliberately induces damage incl. lasers, lights, acids) is greatly reduced with stem cytokines. Shorter recovery time. Fits into the anti-inflammatory cytokine concept. which we hypothesize will also give you better results (e.g. scar free healing). |
Very interesting, provided that it does not reduce the wound healing cascade to the point that it negates the purpose of the roll. |
Very astute observation. That's why the pattern of cytokines is important. They follow the stages of would healing. Early would healing is inflammatory in nature. Call up immune cells, etc. You don't want to amplify that. You want to amplify the later stages of would healing, where the damage has been cleared and you now in a rebuild stage. But the natural response will not be blocked if it needed.
Wound healing changes over our lifetime. As fetuses (and newborns) we can heal wounds remarkably, with no scars. In senescence, we have hard time healing any wound. These tendencies are reflected in regenerative dynamics (e.g. stem cell populations, cytokine patterns) and other key biochemical events.
Why is wound healing important to understand? - aging in some ways looks like a series of wounding events. Photoaging, chemical aging. So if aging is like 1000 paper cuts, why in the world would we want to wound our skin further (e.g. with dermarolling). Because damage is not the issue - but healing is. It is our healing that changes over a lifetime. Wounding causes regeneration at any age. Its just that we gradually lose our ability to do it like we did as infants. We gradually move from non-inflammatory to inflammatory (immune system driven) healing, as the population of stem cells that respond to such events diminishes. |
Very interesting...I did not realize that! |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:10 am |
| DrJ wrote: |
Wound healing changes over our lifetime. As fetuses (and newborns) we can heal wounds remarkably, with no scars. In senescence, we have hard time healing any wound. These tendencies are reflected in regenerative dynamics (e.g. stem cell populations, cytokine patterns) and other key biochemical events.
Why is wound healing important to understand? - aging in some ways looks like a series of wounding events. Photoaging, chemical aging. So if aging is like 1000 paper cuts, why in the world would we want to wound our skin further (e.g. with dermarolling). Because damage is not the issue - but healing is. It is our healing that changes over a lifetime. Wounding causes regeneration at any age. Its just that we gradually lose our ability to do it like we did as infants. We gradually move from non-inflammatory to inflammatory (immune system driven) healing, as the population of stem cells that respond to such events diminishes. |
Dr. J, what roll would an autoimmune disease play in the wound healing, and are the cytokines even more important in this scenario? |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:43 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
Wound healing changes over our lifetime. As fetuses (and newborns) we can heal wounds remarkably, with no scars. In senescence, we have hard time healing any wound. These tendencies are reflected in regenerative dynamics (e.g. stem cell populations, cytokine patterns) and other key biochemical events.
Why is wound healing important to understand? - aging in some ways looks like a series of wounding events. Photoaging, chemical aging. So if aging is like 1000 paper cuts, why in the world would we want to wound our skin further (e.g. with dermarolling). Because damage is not the issue - but healing is. It is our healing that changes over a lifetime. Wounding causes regeneration at any age. Its just that we gradually lose our ability to do it like we did as infants. We gradually move from non-inflammatory to inflammatory (immune system driven) healing, as the population of stem cells that respond to such events diminishes. |
Dr. J, what roll would an autoimmune disease play in the wound healing, and are the cytokines even more important in this scenario? |
Autoimmune disorders are marked by a hypersensitive immune system. Indeed part of how they mediate their effects is via cytokines.
Cytokines can promote would healing by regeneration, or by scarring. With automimmune disorders, healing tends to be scarring. One cytokine in particular, fibroblast growth factor (FGF) beta-1 has a role in creating fibrosis (bad collagen, scar like) in many organs, including lung. Fibrosis and sclerosis (scarring) is often a component of AI disorders. There is a lot of work going in looking at factors that affect cytokine patterns to ameliorate autoimmune disorders. I read a paper recently about autoimmune encephalopathy involving cytokine manipulation for benefit.
Psoriasis is an autoimmune disorder, and we are aware of one person with a mild case who has used our serum with good results.
Rosacea is not classically autoimmune, but does represent a sun "hypersensitivity" involving inflammatory cytokines. Our own Dr. George has serious rosacea which he swears is cured by our products. He recently skipped his daily AnteAGE for 4-5 days, and it flared for the first time since he had started. Within a day or two of restarting it faded away again.
We cannot recommend our products to treat any disease, but offer this to help understand the inner working of cytokines. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:56 am |
| Thank you, Dr. J, that is Very interesting. What I have is now being considered an autoimmune disease (low platelets) and I am always curious if this plays a role in visible aging or not. (Haven't been able to find anything concrete on that.) I know it definitely affects my wound healing. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:08 am |
Nothing personal Dr. J, but I am hoping this product does not work for anyone! I just did the math on buying this product every six weeks for a year and OMG the cost is $2,666.00 or so. If it only lasted a month, the cost is $3,720.00.  |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:31 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Nothing personal Dr. J, but I am hoping this product does not work for anyone! I just did the math on buying this product every six weeks for a year and OMG the cost is $2,666.00 or so. If it only lasted a month, the cost is $3,720.00. |
It generally lasts 6-10 weeks depending on usage. Cellese plans a significant loyalty discount to users who stick with it. Glad you revealed your "wish" so I could mention that. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:40 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Nothing personal Dr. J, but I am hoping this product does not work for anyone! I just did the math on buying this product every six weeks for a year and OMG the cost is $2,666.00 or so. If it only lasted a month, the cost is $3,720.00. |
It generally lasts 6-10 weeks depending on usage. Cellese plans a significant loyalty discount to users who stick with it. Glad you revealed your "wish" so I could mention that. |
I am sure that will interest all! I am sad to report that I have to wait until I see more reviews and results, before I can budget that amount on products. So its in my pocket books best interest  |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:46 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Thank you, Dr. J, that is Very interesting. What I have is now being considered an autoimmune disease (low platelets) and I am always curious if this plays a role in visible aging or not. (Haven't been able to find anything concrete on that.) I know it definitely affects my wound healing. |
Very interesting indeed, since the very stem cell system (mesenchymal stem cells) that we coax our therapeutic cytokines from are being used experimentally to treat ITP (Immune thrombocytopenia) in a mouse model. Just published this month. Here it the abstract:
Xiao J, Zhang C, Zhang Y, Zhang X, Zhao J, Liang J, Zhong X, Chen Y. Transfusion. 2012 Apr 9. doi: 10.1111/j.1537-2995.2012.03642.x. [Epub ahead of print]
Transplantation of adipose-derived mesenchymal stem cells into a murine model of passive chronic immune thrombocytopenia.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Immune thrombocytopenia (ITP) is a bleeding disorder characterized by antibody-opsonized platelets (PLTs) being prematurely destroyed by macrophages in the reticuloendothelial system. T helper (Th) cells and different Th cytokines play an important role in the pathophysiology of ITP. As immunomodulators, adipose-derived mesenchymal stem cells (ADSCs) regulate Th cells and show therapeutic effects in autoimmune diseases. However, it is not clear how ADSCs affect ITP. In this study, we explored the specific effects of ADSCs on ITP in mice.
STUDY DESIGN AND METHODS:
BALB/c mice were randomly divided into three groups: normal controls, ITP controls, and ITP with ADSC transplantation. PLT levels were monitored by an automatic blood cell counter, and the cytokines interferon-γ (IFN-γ); interleukin (IL)-2, -4, -10, and -17; and transforming growth factor-β1 (TGF-β1) were analyzed by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assays.
RESULTS:
Compared to the untreated ITP mice, the PLT level of the ITP mice significantly increased after ADSC treatment. In the ADSC group, IFN-γ, IL-2, and IL-17 significantly decreased, while IL-4, IL-10, and TGF-β1 increased.
CONCLUSION:
These findings constitute the first experimental evidence that mesenchymal stem cells are efficacious in improving PLT levels and reducing the related Th cytokines mediating proinflammatory response in ITP mice, which may provide a scientific basis for using ADSCs as a new therapy for ITP.
© 2012 American Association of Blood Banks.
People at Cellese have figured out that applying the serum to minor cuts, abrasions, and the like tends to bring about rapid healing. Can't label it as such (yet). |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:47 pm |
| I think Bethany mentioned a coupon with the sample? Did everyone get one? I was going to order but now I think I'll wait for the sample to arrive. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:52 pm |
| Thank you, Dr. J. That is very cool! I have ITP. I will have to try the AnteAGE if I get a wound and see how it does on that! Keep me updated if you hear anymore about that, please! |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:52 pm |
My samples are now 100% depleted, and I am actually bummed...I was enjoying using them.
Unfortunately I doubt that my full size order will arrive before I leave Wed morning, so I will go back to the ANRC until I get back in town Fri night, and hopefully I can start back up on the AnteAGE Saturday morning. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:15 pm |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Nothing personal Dr. J, but I am hoping this product does not work for anyone! I just did the math on buying this product every six weeks for a year and OMG the cost is $2,666.00 or so. If it only lasted a month, the cost is $3,720.00. |
It generally lasts 6-10 weeks depending on usage. Cellese plans a significant loyalty discount to users who stick with it. Glad you revealed your "wish" so I could mention that. |
I would be very interested in a loyalty programme. I have no problem is "treating" myself to something - but I do have a problem with paying out a significant amount of money on a regular basis once the "instant gratification" feeling has left me. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:28 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Nothing personal Dr. J, but I am hoping this product does not work for anyone! I just did the math on buying this product every six weeks for a year and OMG the cost is $2,666.00 or so. If it only lasted a month, the cost is $3,720.00. |
It generally lasts 6-10 weeks depending on usage. Cellese plans a significant loyalty discount to users who stick with it. Glad you revealed your "wish" so I could mention that. |
I would be very interested in a loyalty programme. I have no problem is "treating" myself to something - but I do have a problem with paying out a significant amount of money on a regular basis once the "instant gratification" feeling has left me. |
Couldn't agree with treating myself more, but if I understand this type of product correctly, it can take months, perhaps a year to show significant results, or was I reading all this wrong? |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:29 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Nothing personal Dr. J, but I am hoping this product does not work for anyone! I just did the math on buying this product every six weeks for a year and OMG the cost is $2,666.00 or so. If it only lasted a month, the cost is $3,720.00. |
I did the math too, and came up with the same numbers. this one is WAY too expensive for my taste. And I spend a lot of $$ on skin care products. |
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early 60's, fair skin, combo skin, very few fine lines, vertical lip lines, crows feet & 11's, fighting aging! Using Palancia HF, dermarollers, CPs, Retin A Micro, Safetox, AALS, Clairsonic |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:44 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
| I would be very interested in a loyalty programme. I have no problem is "treating" myself to something - but I do have a problem with paying out a significant amount of money on a regular basis once the "instant gratification" feeling has left me. |
Especially if you are not seeing measureable results.
Hmmm....maybe I should try to get a Visia analysis done before I start using the full size products. I'll try and look into that before I head out of town. |
_________________
No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:57 pm |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Keliu wrote: |
| DrJ wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Nothing personal Dr. J, but I am hoping this product does not work for anyone! I just did the math on buying this product every six weeks for a year and OMG the cost is $2,666.00 or so. If it only lasted a month, the cost is $3,720.00. |
It generally lasts 6-10 weeks depending on usage. Cellese plans a significant loyalty discount to users who stick with it. Glad you revealed your "wish" so I could mention that. |
I would be very interested in a loyalty programme. I have no problem is "treating" myself to something - but I do have a problem with paying out a significant amount of money on a regular basis once the "instant gratification" feeling has left me. |
Couldn't agree with treating myself more, but if I understand this type of product correctly, it can take months, perhaps a year to show significant results, or was I reading all this wrong? |
I agree that it would probably take twelve months to see any real definitive change to skin health. I'm tossing up with maybe the money would be better spent on a laser treatment. But even laser treatments work on the principal of the more the better.
Bethany, a Visia analysis might be useful - I'm a little disappointed that Cellese hasn't bothered to do something like this. |
_________________
Born 1950. There's a new cream on the market that gets rid of wrinkles - you smear it on the mirror!! |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:22 pm |
| foxe wrote: |
| Tiny wrote: |
| Nothing personal Dr. J, but I am hoping this product does not work for anyone! I just did the math on buying this product every six weeks for a year and OMG the cost is $2,666.00 or so. If it only lasted a month, the cost is $3,720.00. |
I did the math too, and came up with the same numbers. this one is WAY too expensive for my taste. And I spend a lot of $$ on skin care products. |
You guys are speculating but don't have all the facts. BTW, you belong to a special (to me at least) "cohort" - the online community. The company sells the vast majority of its products through professional channels - dermatologists, spas, and estheticians. , There are several programs being designed especially for this cohort. I mentioned loyalty. There is also an affiliate program. They are additive. I can't give out numbers yet but you guys are not even in the ball park. So stop worrying about the cost of liking the product or becoming addicted. The better you like it, the less it could cost. Try to get that offer from your local drug dealer! |
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