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Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:42 pm  |
This last week I've noticed strange patches of pigmentation on my forehead and on the upper part of one cheek. I am diligent about using sunscreen and even though the weather has been nice here (Victoria) I have not spent much time outdoors.
These are in the same spots that I did burn one time when I was younger (I'm 36 now). When I was pregnant 4 years ago was the first time I've ever had pigmentation in those areas but then it went away. (I know I am NOT pregnant.)
I use mostly IS Clinical products but have been using them for awhile now. I also use a retinol product at night which I have also been using for some time.
I can't figure this out. Is my skin purging? Any clues? |
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Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:26 pm |
Are you on any type of birth control?
Even though I wear sunscreen, if I get even the slightest bit darker, or have been outside a lot (even if I don't notice my skin getting darker), I get hyper pigmentation (or whatever it's called) on my forehead and on my cheekbones below the outer corners of my eyes, and my doctor says it's from the hormones in the b.c. |
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Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:35 pm |
this may be way off base as i haven't been using your level of products..., but since i've started with a retinol product i've noticed past discolourasions surface. then disappear. then another surfaces, etc. it's almost as though it's going through the entire history of damage i've imposed on my face. it's like peeling back the layers, one by one. perhaps this is happening to you and the reason it took so long to come out was that the damage was done so long ago?
just a thought. |
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Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:09 pm |
tularyn: I am not on any hormonal b.c.
la vie enrose: I am using the 1% retinol by PSF. That is what I was thinking (what you said) but I had never heard of that happening with a retinol product. I'm hoping that's what it is. |
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Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:34 pm |
| lily wrote: |
| la vie enrose: I am using the 1% retinol by PSF. That is what I was thinking (what you said) but I had never heard of that happening with a retinol product. I'm hoping that's what it is. |
i'm using 1% retinol, 6% glycolic by avene. diacneal. major changes in my skin! unfortunately, i had a *lot* of damage in my youth and was not the smartest cookie for years -- living in l.a., depending on sunblock from my foundation.  i'm now using SPF 50+ european sunblock, in the rain most days, and i get to wake up each week to a different pattern of discolouration. because i am seeing progress, however, i'm persevering. it's literally the first time in years that i'm actually seeing the true colour of my face sneaking through. rather than be obsessive about it (though i DO have my moments), i am simply delighted that i'm finally going in the right direction. (i want to start with ISClinical as well but that will have to wait till i'm back in the states.) it will take quite a bit more time in my case, but it in the end -- rebirth  i want to end up with only the little birth mark i was born with! |
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Tue Mar 21, 2006 9:25 pm |
Hi la vie en rose - I just started using Avene Ystheal products for face and eyes because the .5% SkinCeuticals Retinol has been a bit too drying, at least during the cold winter months. I can't even use the .5% every other day without creating too much crepiness for my liking and that's why I thought I'd give the Avene Ystheal a try. But I don't know if it's a strong enough alternative (I'll still use it up), and have wondered about the Avene Diacneal products. But I thought they were for acneic skin so I didn't even check into them. I'm interested in your opinion.
But to get back on topic, I've been disappointed that my freckles haven't faded more since I started using stronger retinoids and sunscreen (Avene and LRP) since last summer. Sunscreens can't possibly block all UVA and UVB exposure, especially when they're not reapplied every couple of hours while outdoors (BTW, cloudiness doesn't diminish UVA), so I've been wondering if the stronger SC Retinol product has made me more vulnerable to pigmentation and that's why I'm not seeing the results yet that I'd hoped for, and in fact, I think maybe a few more freckles have popped out! I also use a Vit.C serum (SC CE+Ferulic), and hoped this would help. But maybe I should just be patient. I'm not sure I believe your theory about old pigmentation coming to the surface, but it's an elegant and intriguing one! And lily, I also use ISC Firming Complex a couple of times a week, which contains 5% AHA, and hoped that this low % wouldn't be too much for my skin along with the retinol use. But I DO wonder if I need to be even more fastidious than I already am about sun exposure since I'm still dealing with this freckle issue. I think the fact that your freckles are on your forehead and cheekbone may indicate sun exposure more than anything hormonal. Anyway, I like how these products refine the skin, but at the same time, I still want to reduce my freckles. Such a dilemma! |
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Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:40 am |
m.april,
yes, my theory could be a bunch of bollocks but as i try to always look at the sunny side, i'm sticking to it! thank you for calling it elegant anyways.
as for the Diacneal, i DO have acne so that was a no brainer for me to start with that one, but my skin is actually quite dry. to be honest, though, it really hasn't helped that much with that. i'm still having a bit of a purge but, at least for once in my life, they seem to be more the normal ones rather than cystic. but the cysts are lessening ever so slowly.... so, no, i don't find the diacneal a cure all for acne.
what i do like it for is what it's doing for the rest of my face -- what retinols SHOULD do, though i've never been able to tolerate them before. the texture is actually becoming finer and my pigmentation is purging. it can be quite drying as well, but i've combatted that with using a much richer night cream during the day and it's done wonders! i'd highly recommend trying the Diacneal on your face and saving the Ystheal for your eyes and neck. you may get some initial crepiness, but it WILL pass. i seriously think this stuff is genius as i've started and stopped Retin-A so many times in the past, only to give up. i'm sticking with this.
my problem is more of an all-over discolouration right now. i've been a good girl and have managed to keep the freckles at bay with sunscreen. i'm afraid i've become a bit of a hat fiend and live in them, especially during the summer, when outside. my BF has a convertible so summer holidays are long hours in the sun. high SPF is great, but i seriously don't ever leave the house with at least a cap in my bag!
after living with acne and some major scarring (that nothing can get rid of), i've learned to practice patience. be grateful all you have is freckles when there are so many women out there not going out of the house because their faces look like raw meat and they wouldn't be caught dead sleeping with somebody without makeup. patience! all this takes time. there is no instant gratification. baby steps, my dear.
i think you're right to care for your skin using these products. i also think you DO have to be even more fanatical about sunscreen whilst using them. learn to love hats as well, at least when you're walking about. it becomes second nature. and, when you know you'll be in the sun a lot (for instance, i'll be in hawaii visiting my father in may), perhaps pull back from the retinols, etc., for a period of time.
good luck!
(BTW, i happen to loooove freckles and actually miss mine!) |
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Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:44 am |
Hi again la vie en rose - You're probably wise to preach patience. And some people think my freckles are cute! At age 54, I should be glad to have anyone refer to me using that term. I absolutely agree with you about wearing hats -- I wear them a lot, but in winter they're generally brimless knit caps which don't protect the bridge of my nose and cheekbones. My fault. And in summer, I DO wear broader brims until it gets so hot and humid here that wearing anything on the head is quite uncomfortable. Again my fault. Last summer, I broke down and carried an umbrella (got a cute one once while in Paris) a few times, even at the risk of looking weird and old-ladyish. I've also been going outdoors without makeup more often so that I can use the LRP Fluide Extreme which is a more effective block than the Avene.
I appreciate your review of the Diacneal line. I'll keep it in mind (the stock of skincare is taking over my bathroom  ). Like you, I also tried Retin-A (and Renova) over and over and could never get past the stage of really extreme dryness and irritation. I envy the ones who can tolerate it. I know I need to be more patient, and more conscientious about sun protection. Patience! |
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Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:19 am |
i preach patience partially to keep on reminding myself! 
as for hats, there's this wonderful store in beverly hills called Ariane (310.276.9021). she makes the most amazing hats, especially for summer. the top is a very light gauzey type that barely feels like there's anything on and is actually cooler than when you have nothing there at all. the brim is opaque to protect around your face -- stiff, but not too much so. i have two of these, one a gorgeous huge brimmed paris model hat that i can only go out in when i have the right parisianne attitude. the other has a smaller brim that i can stuff in my purse (which i did all last summer and it's only a little worse for the wear). it's more casual and i don't feel quite so stupid wearing if i have shorts on.... you should ring her up. oh, and she also outfitted both my hats with huge ribbons so i could keep them from flying away in the convertible!
as for going without makeup.... this may sound heretical, but i've always felt better having it on. powder too. i feel like it actually keeps my sunscreen on better, plus adds a bit more SPF. i've backpacked and rock climbed in extreme conditions and think my foundation helped me from much more damage than i would have gotten with just sunscreen. plus, i was able to guage how much i was sweating off because of the colour on my hankie.... i've unfortunately gotten a few bad burns visiting my father in hawaii using the exact same sunscreen on body and face. the face (but wasn't reapplying enough), however, was barely touched. i attribute that to makeup. and talk about looking ridiculous? i now snorkel with a longsleeve sunshirt, gloves, and socks!
give the Diacneal a try. it's a wee bitty tube! |
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Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:44 am |
Thanks for the tip on the hat woman! Yes, I've also worn makeup while hiking and agree that it can provide some degree of protection. But it will degrade the active ingredients in LRP, so that's why I end up using Avene more often. And in spite of my whining, I must say that my skin is looking better and better due to all of these skincare products, and I'm therefore more willing to be seen without makeup! Either that, or I'm becoming less vain and more sanguine about advancing age. Or lazy.
This is off-topic, but my latest concern is thinning skin since menopause. While the condition and texture of it is very good, I notice there's less fat or whatever along my cheekbones, and in raking or under overhead light I can see depressions and more "boniness". Topicals can only do so much and the vain person will end up under the knife or needle sooner or later, I fear. I haven't experienced enough plumping from these products (that claim to supposedly stimulate collagen production) to counteract nature's inevitable way. |
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Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:05 am |
| m.april wrote: |
And in spite of my whining, I must say that my skin is looking better and better due to all of these skincare products, and I'm therefore more willing to be seen without makeup!
This is off-topic, but my latest concern is thinning skin since menopause. While the condition and texture of it is very good, I notice there's less fat or whatever along my cheekbones, and in raking or under overhead light I can see depressions and more "boniness". Topicals can only do so much and the vain person will end up under the knife or needle sooner or later, I fear. I haven't experienced enough plumping from these products (that claim to supposedly stimulate collagen production) to counteract nature's inevitable way. |
i know what you mean. my face is looking better too, *almost* to the point of no makeup, but not quite yet. i've been using a TMish base by Vincent Longo and am going to check out Guerlain's Fleur de Teint tomorrow. i definitely don't slather like i used to.... and i'm here in europe and have all these gorgeous sunscreens for a fraction of the price and am still looking for my HG. must admit that the high SPF ones look fairly hideous under makeup. but my quest shall continue!
i'm 44 and haven't hit that time yet, thank god. i have the world's thinnest skin on my entire body, but for some reason the skin on my face is about as thick as can be -- except my eyes. the eluage (another avene product) has seemed to help a bit in this regards. give give give the diacneal a try. (start slowly and really moisturise during the day.) my mum's been using retin-a micro for years and her skin is plump as a peacock. i really truly believe the retinols help for this. diacneal might not be the end all be all, but it might help you work your way up to a better one by acclimating your skin.
sigh. it sucks when your mum has better skin than you....  |
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Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:52 am |
So far, it's true that the most effective sunscreens are oily and aren't the best base for applying makeup  . My hope is that in the not-to-distant future, this common characteristic will be improved. I don't mind having a bit of sheen, but when it gets humid, I really have to use powder! A sunscreen guru on the forum suggested plain old cornstarch as a good mattifyer that won't degrade sunscreen actives. This works for me because I'm so pale, but wouldn't work for darker complections. Nevertheless, because of the original question lily posed, I wouldn't dare go without the most effective sunscreen no matter how slick it makes my face look.
I'm jealous that your mother can tolerate Retin-A and that it may be the reason her skin is still plump, although there may be a genetic factor at work. I think your strategy is worth trying -- maybe if I can ever build up a tolerance to retinoids, someday I'll be able to use the prescription strength, which undoubtedly delivers much more Vit.A to deeper layers of skin. Thanks for all of your input |
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