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Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:43 am  |
OK, time to fess up. For all my whinging and whining, my face is basically wrinkle free (except for those pesky crows feet, which really aren't that bad all things considered).
I have just started with the IS Clinical Active serum at night with all its various acids in it and I was going to alternate a couple of nights with PSF retinol or RoC Retin-OX (I had a sample of both that seemed very nice).
But I have been thinking.. PSF state that their retinol is really for mature skins and for bringing back a "youthful glow". I know that retinol sloughs off the top layers of skin, but isn't that what peels and all the glycolics in Active Serum do too? I know that my skin is pretty glowy at the moment with my current regime. And, given that, why use retinol?
At what age do we classify our skin as "mature"...
What determines a wrinkle from a fine line?
What benefits would I get with retinol that I dont already get with peels and the active serum?
It is so easy to get hooked into thinking that we "need" all these things and it is easy to go overboard !! If I was to be honest I only need to concentrate on refining pores around my nose and chin (hopefully Active will do that), erradicate those stubborn crows feet/brow droop/"chicken" skin (  a never-ending mission), and work on some sagging issues (still have nice, plump skin, but I can see parts of my face and neck starting to consider retiring to the south if you know what I mean). That might sound like a lot, but really it is not that bad.. a lot of prevention going on here and my general skin health is pretty darn good I think.
I hope someone can clear this up for me, because once I thought about it, I got pretty darned confused. |
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Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:06 am |
i think one thing that women have to stop doing is look at their age when looking for products. you should always look at skin quality and then determine what is needed. my mum is 58 and doesn't have a wrinkle in sight. if you are using peels you don't really need to use retinol, because they are basically doing the same job, the beauty of retinol is that you have it at home and can be a safer option for some people. difference between fine lines and wrinkles is the depth. fine lines are usually just on the surface/epidermis, but once you get weakening in the dermal layer the fine lines will get deeper and turn into wrinkles.
oli |
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Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:52 am |
tiger_tim I have been using Differin for 8 years and have been thinking about these issues alot recently. Here are some of my thoughts on the matter:
First, retinol is supposed to be converted in the skin to retinoic acid which is a retinoid. I haven't looked into retinol specifically but retinoids (RetinA, Tazorac,Differin) are beneficial for the skin in many ways. They do much more than exfoliate skin. This is simplifying how they work but essentially they normalize skin cell production. Studies have shown that retinoids increase collagen production, diminish fine wrinkles and help heal photodamaged skin.
Here's were I get confused. I am 38 years old and like you I have nothing to complain about (other than acne but that is something else entirely). I only have the very beginnings of crows feet and wrinkles between my brows. I have no wrinkles or photodamage to improve! My question is this do retinoids do anything to prevent aging or are they only beneficial to correct aging. As far as the collagen production goes Vitamin C has been shown to stimulate collagen production as well and it has antioxidant benefits too.
To complicate the matter even more retinoids make your skin much more photosensitive so any sun that you are exposed to would do more damage than if you weren't using them.
I have been talking about retinoids here but I imagine that retinol would have the same effects if it is properly converted to retinoic acid.
Hopefully someone can clear up some of the confusion... BTW I hope I haven't added to the confusion |
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Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:20 am |
Thank you Tiger Tim, for voicing what I'm assuming to be a lot of fears and confusions of the 20-30-something set. I, too, am comfused about what kinds of actives I should put on my face when I really only have the very beginnings of fine lines that only I can see. BUT they are a lot more noticeable when, for instance, I spend a night out with friends at a smoky bar. I want to prevent those little lines from turning into wrinkles, and also make sure that my skin always looks fresh and bright--so I'm assuming retinol at night (b/c no derm in her/his right mind would prescribe me retin-a) and vit c during the day, and sunscreen, and some other all-natural products that make my skin feel good in between.
However, when shopping for products, I always go to the ones that seem to me geared for mature skin, since I assume those will be the most "effective" for my skin. Sometimes I wish there was a board like this only for people my age so I can see what kinds of things they are using.
I can only *hope* not to have wrinkles 8 years from now, but I really want to *ensure* that I do not! I'm a little vain, yes, but it is much more about making sure I am well-preserved.
By the way, I am using PSF retinol night cream and stimu-coll, and I like these products a lot, I think they have helped with my fine lines.
In my experience, skin care professionals have told me that I need nothing special for my skin, since it is not problematic in any way, but really, who wants to stand around and passively watch their skin age? we are a transitional market that is only now being addressed rhetorically. |
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http://newnaturalbeauty.tumblr.com/ 37, light-toned olive skin, broken caps, normal skin. My staples: Osea cleansing milk, Algae Oil, Advanced Protection Cream, Eyes & Lips, Tata Harper, Julie Hewett makeup, Amazing Cosmetics Powder, & By Terry Light Expert, Burnout, and daily inversion therapy and green smoothies! |
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Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:45 am |
This topic is very relevant to me.
I'm only 25 but already showing noticeable signs of aging, due to bad genes, I guess, and sun damage. So I'm already concerned about starting a prevention/improvement strategy.
I use Vitamin C, a glycolic product, and Retin A (along with sunscreen, cleanser, moisturizer). For someone my age, am I overdoing it?
I just want to do what I can NOW as far as prevention goes, because I'm scared of what the future holds and want to everything I can to lessen the impact of aging. |
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Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:54 am |
| I too also tend to go for stated mature product thinking that it will work better because it must be stronger. I am 28, with some fine lines under eyes and moderate sun damage(stupid tanning booths). But it makes me wonder if I should be using a retin-A now, which I was thinking of putting into my nightly regimen, or wait for more wrinkles to pop up and then start on it. But then again, I'm afraid to start because then you have to continue don't you? or your wrinkles come back once you stop? |
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Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:43 am |
| oli_d wrote: |
| if you are using peels you don't really need to use retinol, because they are basically doing the same job, the beauty of retinol is that you have it at home and can be a safer option for some people. oli |
oli_d for some reason I did not see your post when I typed my reply 
In light of what you said, I do recall reading that professional strenght face peels can do the things that I mentioned (increase collagen production, reduced photodamage and fine lines). Do you know if this would apply to daily use of low amounts of AHAs or if it only applies to professional strenght peels?
I suppose it is possible that retinol/retinoids and AHAs do the same things but by different mechanisms. If that is the case then it is back to the original question are both really necessary? And here I thought i was finally starting to figure this stuff out. |
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Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:52 am |
We should hire some experienced dermatologist to just sit here all day and answer our questions!!
Seriously, I wish we had a few licensed professionals lurking about... |
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Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:35 pm |
Just to clarify: on my original post, when I said i do "peels", I just meant the "at home" kind and not industrial strength either (I could never do that). I just have the RoC Peel-Ex Radiance and might also try the Pevonia and Juice Beauty ones.
I had never thought of the "firming" aspect of retinol..then the next thing to pop into my head was that if retinol was firming, why does the IS Clinical firming complex have AHA in it rather than retinol?  too much for my little brain! |
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:55 am |
As far as my own skin goes, it really isn't that bad for my age and is just plainly showing sun damage. I don't believe in using any product on my skin that causes burning, excessive redness close to burning or anything that peels. Although I am at an age when retinol might help, I only use it occasionally so that I don't get any peeling or negative effects. I just don't believe that anything that rips the skin off or burns can be good. Although the ISC products are very "active", on normal skin they won't cause any harmful effects so long as the correct products are chosen for the skin type.
I also tend to favour products that offer new concepts which may just work and the worst they can do is provide great moisturisation eg Photolagen, Juvedical, Cellcosmet etc
Tiger tim, to get back to your question, I don't believe you need retinol. All you need is sunscreen, good moisturisation and products that will maintain your skin and prevent age damage such as wrinkles and discolourisation such as ISC. |
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Skin: Over 60, ex combination now sensitive, Cellcosmet |
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:15 am |
| TheresaL wrote: |
oli_d for some reason I did not see your post when I typed my reply
In light of what you said, I do recall reading that professional strenght face peels can do the things that I mentioned (increase collagen production, reduced photodamage and fine lines). Do you know if this would apply to daily use of low amounts of AHAs or if it only applies to professional strenght peels?
I suppose it is possible that retinol/retinoids and AHAs do the same things but by different mechanisms. If that is the case then it is back to the original question are both really necessary? And here I thought i was finally starting to figure this stuff out. |
peels don't really work on collagen production because they work on the surface of the skin, which is why they diminish appearance of fine lines and pigmentation. they make skin look younger because they increase cell turnover, that's all. retinol does the exact same thing, which is why you can use one or the other.
the amount of AHA in a product will determine the speed in which you will see the desired results(more AHA's more dramatic results) so whether it's a higher strength peel at a salon or a moisturiser with a lesser amount, the end result is the same, younger and smoother looking skin.
oli |
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:44 am |
| I am gonna show my ignorance again here.. Not all peels are AHA's right? I mean the "enzyme" peels are different to AHA peels, no? (feeling like the dunce of the class here at the moment...) |
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Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:05 am |
| tiger_tim wrote: |
| I am gonna show my ignorance again here.. Not all peels are AHA's right? I mean the "enzyme" peels are different to AHA peels, no? (feeling like the dunce of the class here at the moment...) |
yeah, that's right, not all peels use AHA's. enzyme peels are more gentle on the skin than what the AHA's are.
oli |
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