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Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:02 pm  |
I need to know which is better to use with CP. BHA or AHA?
SkinBiology uses BHA in the formulas, but why?
I thought AHA is more effective than BHA?
AHA is supposed to be used if skin is rather dry. BHA if it is rather oily.
My skin is a little dry.
I also use Retin A 0.025%.
So far, I have been using it with AHA becasue thats what I have. I need to order more of Paula's exfoliant, but am unsure which to get now since I also wanna start using the CP.
I want to use the CP on my face and also on a scar on my body. |
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Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:51 pm |
AHA and BHA work differently and do different things. Both are very effective, for what they do. They are not really interchangable.
AHA is a surface exfoliant. It primarily exfoliates skin surface, brightens skin, softens finelines, helps on aged skin, thins thicken skin etc.
It does help some in moisterizing at lower levels, or if useing Lactic acid. But this is not its main use in the situation you are refereing to.
Glycolic acid is not lipid soluable, so is a poor exfoliant for within the skin pore, because it cannot easily cut through the skin oils within the pore. So when you use it, its effect is mainly limited to skin surface, not skin pores, where oils, makeup and dead cells buildup - especially on oily skin.
Lactic acid has better oil solubility, though still not as good as BHA (Beta Hydroxy Acid) in this activity. It is also somewhat moisterizing. But for oily skintypes, it is more effective then Glycolic. Lactic is also better suited to sensitive skin, as it is less irritating, compared to glycolic.
Lactic cannot completely replace BHA, but can partially replace it, with some of the benifits of both BHA and Glycolic acid (an AHA).
Because AHA does thin skin, it does help some on product penitration. But it still will not clean inside the pore. Many treatments use the "pore inroad" as a main route to reach deeper skin layers. So if your activity works better on deeper skin leyers (such as copper) then it will be more effective if the "pore Highway" is unblocked.
BHA is primarily a pore exfoliant. It does some surface exfoliation, but its main benifit/purpose is its ability to cut through lipids/skin oils. It can reach into the pore to clean within it and dissolve gunk inside the pore. It also removes debris and dead cells from the lining of the pore walls, which is one cause of "big" pores. This is a terrific productif you have overlarge pores. Though you may need to adjust strenghth and pH for your needs.
This ability makes it better suited to help other skin activitys penitrate deeper. Because it cuts through the oils in the pores, any activity applyed after the BHA penitrates deeper into the skin, then without the BHA.
BHA can also be used after some activities to push treatments deeper, much like EMU oil.
I actually use both AHA and BHA for different reasons.
I use the AHA to help soften finelines, remove wrinkles and scars, thin skin, lighten age spots, to help some on penitration, and help on UV damaged skin.
I use BHA to keep pores clean, lessen the size of enlarged pores, and help copper and other activities penitrate deeper through the pore surface.
If your skin is aged and UV damaged, and scarred - you need AHA.
If you are trying to help other products penitrate better, help enlarged pores, treat oily skin - you need BHA.
Any skintype can use both activities, you simply tailor the correct product type/formula for your needs. BHA and AHA can be purchased in moisterizing formulas as needed. (that would be a lotion or cream)
The Skin Biology Exfol is a stronbger BHA then Paulas Choice, because of the pH which gives it a better "Free Acid" range.
Personally I prefer an AHA/BHA combo product for daily use like the one atwww.ifeelprettyproducts.com under Exfoliants.
Skin Biology also has an AHA/BHA combo, but it is a lotion and has some pore clogging thickners, so I donot use it, since I am acne prone.
If you are treating scars and body skin, you will normally also pretreat them with a higher strength AHA- in the 20, 30 or 40% range. This will help break up scar tissue much better then the lower strenght daily AHA type products. BHAs are not the main choice for scar tissue breakup, they are used with the AHA and Copper though.
Scar will require stronger copper products like the Copper 2X.
I have removed some scars and moles and skintags with AHA, BHA, and Copper.
With any Acids, you need the correct type and correct pH for your needs. pH matters quite a bit, depending on what you expect the acid to do for you. The lower the pH -- the more actualy "acitive acid" you have available for the skin. And certain effects, such as collegan rebuilding needs a higher amount of acid, then skin surface brightening.
www.dianayvonne.com carrys a number of very effective higher strength acids, with lower pH then Paulas Chouce lines. Which are better suited for scar treatment. |
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Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:19 pm |
Just wanted to add-
Mild AHA acids, like Glycolic are recomended with Retin A, because AHA is a surface exfoliant. It works in sycronicity with Retin A products, because it can help lessen the peely effect one may get with Retin A, by gently loosening and exfoliating the surface peelies. (this would be a low level daily use product in the 5% to 10% range)
AHA with Retin A and a microfiber cloth used gently, can dramatically lessen the peel effect.
Copper is excellent with Retin A, because it helps rapidly heal the skin barrier, and is an Anti Oxidantant, and helps sooth skin. So it can help lessen the skin barrier damage caused by Retin A, and help skin feel less irritated.
BHA is also an anti-inflamatory. So it can really help sooth irritated skin, often caused by Retin A.
When I used Retin A (I no longer do) I found it was most effective, and least irritating when used with Copper and AHA and BHA as well.
But Just Copper and REtin A dramatically lessened my irritation. |
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Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:28 pm |
Thank you for the explanation. Im just not sure what to use now and when.
Would you please tell me what to apply and in which order?
Thanks sooo much  |
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Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:58 am |
Tell me all the products you have and I will help.
If you know the pH of your cleanser, and AHA, I need that info also. |
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Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:54 am |
Hi, thanks so much.
Im using
Retin A 0.025% PM
Paula's AHA ph3 PM
CeraVe Moisturizer AM PM
Sunblock SPF30 AM
I want to add Copper Peptides. Not sure what strength yet.
Im thinking of switching to Paula's BHA ph3 because its more gentle and on SkinBiologys site it uses that with the CP, esp. for scrars. I dont have facila scars, only one on my body to treat. I dont have sun damage thats obvious at least. My skin is a bit sensitive and dry. |
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Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:22 am |
Paula’s Choice BHA is fine. But for body scars. You will still probably find you need a stronger AHA, 30%-40% range or higher for effective scar treatment.
The BHA should also be used on the scar, along with the Copper.
Adding the BHA is an advanced method to increase penetration of the copper.
As a beginner user of Copper only use it once a week.
Both Paula’s Choice and Exfol BHA are super gentle, even on sensitive facial skin. But either option is fine. Just your preference.
Dianna Yvonne BHA is even stronger, due to pH differences, which is good for those with oily skin.
You did not mention your cleanser – But if it has a pH over 5.5 , as most cleansers do, you will need to wait 30 minutes before using your BHA, AHA. Because the cleanser pH is higher enough to alter their activity.
pH of many common cleansers is here.
http://www.dianayvonne.com/category/11.thephofcommoncleanser/
Sensitive and dry skin should certainly opt for lower pH cleansers, and low milder detergents or detergent free when possible. Harsh detergents and high pH damage the skin acid mantle, which increases sensitivity and dryness. The skin can take as long as 17 days to rebound from acid mantle damage.
Retin A, Harsh Detergenst, High pH all increase skin sensitivity, and acid mantle/barrier breakdown.
EMU and Copper help heal barrier damage.
I would recommend the Copper Peptide Serum for facial use. On scared areas on body, this is unlikely to be strong enough though. You will probably need the Super Cop Serum, Super COP Cream, or 2X cream for scar treatment.
Using the Retin A on the scar is also a good choice as well.
Emu oil and Squalane are particularly nice for dry and sensitive skin types. Personally I would recommend then instead of your moisturizer cream, or in conjunction with. Emu works especially well for skin barrier healing and helping sensitive and dry skin.
Sensitive skin should start Copper products slowly to avoid irritation. Start with one to four drops of CP Serum for your entire face diluted with water or Emu oil- slowly increase to 10 drops of each. Do this gradual buildup over about two months.
Start the CP use one night a week, slowly working upto nightly use, as skin adjusts.
This gives good tips on which products to use, for different “treatment” situations..
http://dianayvonne.zoovy.com/category/100.whichproducts
Some routine options:
AM:
Cleanse Skin
Copper Serum, diluted with a few drops of distilled water
Emu Oil Diluted with a lot of water and or CeraVe Moisturizer (you can mix them in hand)
Sunscreen
Makeup
PM
Cleanse (wait 30 min if pH is above 5.5)
AHA (wait 30 min)
Retin A (wait 10 – 20 min to absorb)
Emu oil, less dilute for good PM moisterizing treatment and or CeraVe
One to Two nights a week, replace AHA with BHA. May bump up to every other night, after a few weeks depending on skin needs, for advanced treatments.
Scar treatment
Alternate BHA and AHA with 30 min wait
Copper serum, wait few min to absorb
Retin A (wait 10 - 20 min to absorb)
Emu oil full strength (helps push other products deeper)
Use stronger AHA on body scars once a week, to a few nights a week, depending on area and sensitivity. |
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