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Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:58 am  |
Just rec'd this as a free gift from EDS. I've never used a powdered sunscreen before so can't compare it to anything - some of my complaints may be common to this type of powder and not necessarily IS Clinical, but don't know.
For starters, considering the cost of this product, the applicator sucks IMO - it's awkward and cumbersome, sticks easily - I struggle with opening and closing it everytime. The powder is incredibly fine so with each opening and closing of the applicator, the powder puffs out in the air and it is difficult to not breathe it in. It irritates my nose and throat. So when using, DO NOT BREATHE. A few hairs in the brush have also come out and I've only used it twice (could be just because it's new and a few hairs were not intact).
There is also very little product for the price.
It seems to adhere fairly well to the skin. I chose the translucent version and it does not leave a white cast at all. |
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Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:20 am |
| I ordered it over a year ago and did a review. Basically, same complaints. Would not reorder. I keep it in my beachbag for a nose touchup. |
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Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:35 pm |
| I read an interview with Cameron Diaz and she swears it is the best because she found that it did not cause acne. |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:50 am |
AnnieR I tracked down the old review, here if anyone is interested:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=10656&highlight=
After I wrote my review I thought maybe I was just being too impatient with the applicator, but obviously it's a common problem.
At this point, I'm fairly content with the product itself (like the consistency and how it looks on my skin) but it's the price that I object to - are a few grams of physical sunscreen powder and bad packaging worth $46 USD? What makes it that special?
I appreciate the gift from EDS but I'm glad it was a gift! |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:31 pm |
| I had the same problem with this & the Colorescience one too, which was probably even worse because the brush was very bad quality. Overall I would have to also say it was very hard to get a decent amount of product out, i.e. I either got too much or too little! Plus it is overpriced for the amount you receive. But I guess it's a good concept, especially if you want to reapply or touch-up your sunscreen during the day. |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:09 pm |
| It made me break out in a rash, but I have very sensitive skin. |
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40, fair skinned, dark hair, blue eyes |
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Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:45 am |
Oriana808-that's great you found the review. I had forgotten the part about hating the scratchy brush!  |
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Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:54 am |
To top it off... last night I was searching once again for a natural/organic physical sunscreen when I discovered the good (I'm being sarcastic) news about nanotechnology, particularly with titanium dioxide, which can be highly toxic.
The IS Clinical site describes the powdered sunscreen on EDS as nanotechnology and on their site as: Micronized Titanium Dioxide and Microfine Transparent Zinc Oxid. I emailed them asking for particle size and whether either ingredient is coated. I doubt I'll hear back from them.
I found a great recent study/article on nano but will have to post the link later... basically many studies need to be done to determine potential skin penetration. So far, if you have shaved, or have any rashes, broken skin, etc. it is highly likely that penetration will occur. I don't know if using the powder is any safer then applying via a cream or lotion. At any rate, I will be using sparingly. And all the more reason to refrain from inhaling this stuff.
You just can't win these days!! |
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Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:18 pm |
I just mine today. I agree the brush isn't the best...too scratchy. But I didn't have any trouble opening & using it. Just pull apart, push middle thingy down so you get the brush. As you apply, product comes out. To close, I push the middle thingy back up to close in the brush and cover. I didn't get powder flying anywhere. You don't remove the middle part.. It works like those retractable powder brushes. That said, I can't say if it's worth the $$ (doubt it)...I'll try it on a fresh face tomorrow & see. The medium is a tad dark & slightly orange though & I'm a medium/olive  |
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Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:00 pm |
Okay I admit the word nanotechnology always grabs my attention!
| oriana808 wrote: |
| last night I was searching once again for a natural/organic physical sunscreen when I discovered the good (I'm being sarcastic) news about nanotechnology, particularly with titanium dioxide, which can be highly toxic. |
Can you go into more details. What do you mean when you say that nanotechnology can be highly toxic. Are you especially concerned about titanium dioxide because it generates free radicals especially if it is not coated or are you concerned about the fact that titanium dioxide in sunscreens is likey to be really small (30 nm or smaller).
| Quote: |
| The IS Clinical site describes the powdered sunscreen on EDS as nanotechnology and on their site as: Micronized Titanium Dioxide and Microfine Transparent Zinc Oxid. I emailed them asking for particle size and whether either ingredient is coated. I doubt I'll hear back from them. |
I have emailed ISC with ingredient questions on numerous occasions and have always received a reply. Although sometimes that reply is "we can't give you specifics that is proprietary information". If they won't give you the particle size then you may want to rephrase your question. For example, ask them if the average particle size for the zinc oxide is greater than 100nm or less than 100nm.
| Quote: |
| I found a great recent study/article on nano but will have to post the link later... basically many studies need to be done to determine potential skin penetration. So far, if you have shaved, or have any rashes, broken skin, etc. it is highly likely that penetration will occur. I don't know if using the powder is any safer then applying via a cream or lotion. At any rate, I will be using sparingly. And all the more reason to refrain from inhaling this stuff. |
I look forward to reading the article. I have done some research here and there actually are quite a few studies done on possible skin penetration. I am still researching this and recently came across a document that you may find useful http://www.tga.gov.au/npmeds/sunscreen-zotd.pdf I am still reading this but it does seem to be a good resource that covers studies on nanoparticle sunscreen ingredients.
I really am interested in this nanotechnology stuff and feel that we are only go see more of it in the future. So IMO it is something worth researching. |
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Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:35 pm |
| TheresaL wrote: |
Okay I admit the word nanotechnology always grabs my attention!
| oriana808 wrote: |
| last night I was searching once again for a natural/organic physical sunscreen when I discovered the good (I'm being sarcastic) news about nanotechnology, particularly with titanium dioxide, which can be highly toxic. |
Can you go into more details. What do you mean when you say that nanotechnology can be highly toxic. Are you especially concerned about titanium dioxide because it generates free radicals especially if it is not coated or are you concerned about the fact that titanium dioxide in sunscreens is likey to be really small (30 nm or smaller). |
Have you heard the new catchphrase "NO NO NANO"  I suppose what I'm concerned about is basically titanium dioxide at a small particle size AND uncoated. Not only for skin penetration and physical toxicity but also how this affects sunscreen protection. Hey I ain't no scientist but this nanotechnology seems to be causing quite a stir.
An excerpt from my link (I know there a lot of papers/articles out there and if you've already been researching, most likely have come across this one): "Exposure to nanoparticle titanium dioxide, used in large numbers of sunscreens, cosmetics and personal care products, has been shown to cause far greater cell damage than larger particles of titanium dioxide. It has been demonstrated that whereas 500nm titanium dioxide particles have only a small ability to cause DNA strand breakage, exposure to 20nm particles of titanium dioxide causes complete destruction of supercoiled DNA, even at low doses and in the absence of exposure to UV..."
Cosmetics, nanotoxicity and skin penetration
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:KcOP18YEOfEJ:nano.foe.org.au/filestore2/download/154/Cosmetics,%2520nanotoxicity%2520and%2520skin%2520penetration%2520-%2520October%25202006.pdf
I have also read the thread on Nano vs Micronized on EDS: http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=13536&highlight=nano
I don't know what else to say. I went to close my ISC Sunscreen Powder container the other day and a big puff of powder came out - I had to immediately remove myself from the area. I can only imagine how long those tiny particles remain floating around in the air. Nevermind skin penetration, I just like to breathe the stuff right into my lungs, oh yeah! In that instance I don't think any kind of coating would protect me.
I guess I'd rather be on the safe side, and will look for coated physical sunscreen properties, (in a cream or lotion  ) in the near future. |
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Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:25 am |
oriana808 I figured that you had seen the Friends of the Earth reports. That was my introduction to nanotechnology in skincare too. Well all I will say about FOE is that they do bring alot of attention to this topic and they do serve to get alot of people thinking about such things. However, I have come to realize that they are somewhat biased and that I need to confirm what they say with other sources.
I agree that uncoated titanuim dioxide is of particular concern although there are concerns about uncoated zinc oxide too. Even coated titanium dioxide might be a problem. In fact in a recent thread a member found a new form of titanium dioxide (Optisol) that is not supposed to generate free radicals. I am not sure on this but I believe that the Optisol would be a nanoparticle. I am right now looking into two things. One, is the generation of free radicals a concern only if they penetrate the skin. Two, what exactly do the studies show on very small particles (20nm or so) penetrating the skin. Even if I determine that these ingredients are safe I am not so sure that I would prefer to use a sunscreen with them. I really am convinced now that the smaller the particle the better it becomes at protection against UVB but the worse it becomes at protecting against UVA. I also have a preference for zinc oxide in gerneral since it IMO offers better UVA protection than titanium dioxide.
I think your conclusion about coated physical sunscreen ingredinets is pretty much in line with what I think. I also agree since a powder can be inhaled that makes it more of a concern. But of course my opinion on this may change as I do more research!
Speaking of my opinion changing! The link to the EDS thread that you provided!! I think that I have to revisit that thread since my thoughts have changed and I should update them...... |
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Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:20 am |
Titanium dioxide vs. Zinc accordiing to UV Natural:
"Nano Particles - Is there something I should know?
Recently there has been a flood of questions relating to the safety of nano particles. In other words, should you be concerned? The answer is yes. Some nano particles are extremely active and dangerous to the cell BUT not all. It is important not to get caught up in the hype and wave of fear and panic. The only way to be sure is to read broadly and arm yourself with information.
Nano Zinc and nano titanium are often (mostly) grouped together and this is unfortunate as they behave differently. Titanium is toxic to the cell whether it is macro, micro or nano; zinc is not. Titanium is photoreactive (produces free radicals and damages DNA) whether it is coated or uncoated whereas uncoated zinc is slightly photoreactive BUT coated zinc is NOT.
It should not surprise you at all to learn that UV natural uses coated Zinc only. The zinc used in UV Natural does not penetrate into the bloodstream and affect serum zinc levels."
http://www.uvnaturalusa.com/htm/whats-new.asp
This is from one of their doc. downloads: (Nano zinc Vs nano Titanium.)
"I have scoured the documents available on this matter and I have made the following findings:
1. The two ingredients, Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Oxide are often collectively referred to in the heading, introduction and summary of the various articles yet the damming data regarding toxicity in the main body of the document refers to Titanium and not Zinc Oxide. They seem to be referred to collectively as they are both prominent sunscreen ingredients, yet they behave differently as nano particles.
2. The various “tidbits” of information on the internet seem to loop amongst each other referring to the same body of articles and then using each other’s sites as sources of reference. In essence the same thing is being said without any new information, just more people are quoting each other from the same document.
3. Titanium Dioxide is toxic at the macro and nano level whereas Zinc oxide is not. Zinc is in fact required by the cell for a number of essential functions and the cell would die rapidly without it.
4. Titanium Dioxide, coated or uncoated is photoreactive, coated Zinc oxide is not.
5. Titanium Dioxide is not a true physical sunscreen, it absorbs 70% of UV light and only reflects 30% whereas coated Zinc Oxide reflects much closer to the 100% range and is a true physical sunscreen.
6. Coated Zinc Oxide is NOT photoreactive and therefore does not product hydroxyl ions (free radicals in question) whereas uncoated Zinc oxide and Titanium Dioxide, coated or uncoated do.
7. UV Natural uses coated Zinc oxide.
8. UV Natural chose its ingredient list very carefully and we avoided the common sunscreen ingredients due to their toxicity.
UV Natural continues to research and develop new products with a constant vigil of using safe ingredients. We maintain an awareness of current research and data on toxicity issues and develop our products in line with information available at the time."
Still have not heard back from ISC. |
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Thu Feb 01, 2007 11:42 am |
I really hope that PSF steps up to the plate (although I realize it can be a difficult plate to step up to) with their new reformulated sunscreen... cause if I'm going to finally find a sunscreen that isn't full of chemicals or toxic substances and that works, I would hope it comes from them.  |
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Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:07 pm |
| oriana808 what you are looking for in a sunscreen. Only zinc oxide? Does it matter what the particle size is for zinc oxide? How strict are you about chemicals and toxic substances? Do you mind preservatives? Are you opposed to chemical sunscreeens? |
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Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:57 pm |
Well I'm still just learning and don't always have the time to do extensive research, but with the little knowledge I have (and if this knowledge is anywhere near being correct/true), ideally I would like a sunscreen that is:
- a coated zinc-only physical sunscreen
- a sunscreen that will give me enough protection for normal daily sun exposure (I don't usually put sunscreen on more than once a day - my bad - but I can't see myself rubbing SS over my foundation/powder in the middle of a working day. That's why the ISC SS Powder was appealing).
- I don't know enough about particle size at the moment, but in order to avoid a white cast, I guess it would have to be small enough to do that but doesn't have to be microfine, or whatever. I can always cover up with foundation anyway. Most people would balk at that but I would be willing to make some compromises to gain in other areas.
- no added junk/chemicals/oils etc. I have my a.m. skincare routine and try to keep it simple: Vit. C, Rosehip seed oil and squalene with ALA for moisture, will be adding Matrixyl soon, a dab of foundation and finishing powder. To me that is more than enough stuff to be putting on my face at one time. Like most of us, I really wish I didn't have to deal with sunscreen at all! The simplist, cleanest cream/lotion base and as organic/natural as possible. The bare minimum of ingredients.
Do you think this is asking for too much?  |
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Thu Feb 01, 2007 5:52 pm |
I feel exactly the same way, oriana808. That's why I like Jane Iredale MMU w/ SPF. It's easy to reapply it in the afternoon without disturbing my other makeup or messing up my face. But now I'm worried about if this toxic nano stuff is in it. I guess I better look at the ingredients. Why can't skin care be easy?
[quote="oriana808"]...
- a sunscreen that will give me enough protection for normal daily sun exposure (I don't usually put sunscreen on more than once a day - my bad - but I can't see myself rubbing SS over my foundation/powder in the middle of a working day. That's why the ISC SS Powder was appealing). |
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Best, Jeannine (40s, fair skin, hazel eyes, sensitive skin). To fight the dread lemming sickness, I promise not to rave about a product until I have used it for a long while. |
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Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:42 pm |
TheresaL thanks so much for the recs. The Organic Pharmacy one sounds good but still a long list of ingredients, albeit good ones. Haven't had much time for more exploring lately.
Jeannine, I was just about to stick my big toe into the world of MMU but now I'm glad I didn't! Will take much more scrutiny now... |
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