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Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:41 am  |
I am reluctant to post this because I have been a little critical of the Quasar lately and have been asking probing questions about the effectiveness of LED therapy and yet I feel that I have to post in the hopes that someone can hopefully tell me why my fears are unfounded
Last night I was reading a book about Sunscreens and came across information that infrared radiation has been linked to aging of the skin. Today I did a quick google search and found that indeed there is some concern about infrared radiation. Devices like the Quasar and the Lightstim do have infrared wavelenghts so I wonder if these devices are safe?
Here are some links. I have also included a link that shows that infrared may have benefits for anti-aging.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12955258&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ymj.or.kr/2006/pdf/08485.pdf
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1034/j.1600-0781.2003.00054.x
I really hope that others don't feel that I am trying to disparage these LED devices. I just felt that this information is something that users or potential buyers of these devices might be interested in. I also hope that those of you out there that have researched the safety of these devices will be able to counter these studies and provide evidence that they are safe and that there are no concerns. |
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Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:00 pm |
Thank you TheresaL. To be honest the articles are overwhelming. I own the Baby Q and would like to know if these findings include LED from devices like BQ.
Anyone who can contribute their thoughts after reading these articles please give your input.I could not open the PDF file.
Thanks,
Winnie  |
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Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:11 pm |
Winnie-yes it is sort of overwhelming! It is unfortunate that you couldn't open the PDF since it is very interesting.
For those interested here is another link to a study:
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v119/n6/full/5603341a.html
BTW I PMed James from Advanced Thera and asked him to look at this thread and he PMed me back and said that he will reply when he gets the chance.
Of course, if anyone else can provide evidence that shows the infrared light from these devices is safe then I hope they will do so. |
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Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:40 pm |
| TheresaL wrote: |
Winnie-yes it is sort of overwhelming! It is unfortunate that you couldn't open the PDF since it is very interesting.
For those interested here is another link to a study:
http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v119/n6/full/5603341a.html
BTW I PMed James from Advanced Thera and asked him to look at this thread and he PMed me back and said that he will reply when he gets the chance.
Of course, if anyone else can provide evidence that shows the infrared light from these devices is safe then I hope they will do so. |
I also PMed James with this link. He knows how much I am pleased with my BQ (especially for pain). However, I need to know what I am using is safe. |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:00 am |
| Hi Theresa - Do those studies suggest that light therapy such as this can cause photo-damage??? I'm not sure I can understand all of the technical lingo but that's what I'm gathering. And if so, is that why there's a reference to skin cancer in the PubMed article? |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:19 am |
| m.april wrote: |
| Hi Theresa - Do those studies suggest that light therapy such as this can cause photo-damage??? I'm not sure I can understand all of the technical lingo but that's what I'm gathering. And if so, is that why there's a reference to skin cancer in the PubMed article? |
I am digesting and picking these apart. It is a matter of interpretation, and I will try and help you with this.
This is something I have studied before and gave someone information about, but I believe it is located on another message board.
Great find, let me work at it.
James |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:29 am |
m.april-my take on it is that infrared radiation may cause photo damage which may cause precancerous changes.
But the one article also mentions how treating the skin with infrared radiation before sun exposure reduced sunburn cells which I would think is a good thing
Reading about sunscreens is what first brought the possible dangers of infrared radiation to my attention. The one article mentioned sunscreens and how they don't screen out IR and then addressed something that I find very interesting. It mentioned how we spend more time in the sun because of sunscreens and are therefore exposing ourselves to more infrared radiation. Reminds me of how they try to explain the increase in skin cancer by saying that we were for years using sunscreens that protected against UVB but not UVA......
This IR stuff is very interesting and not just for those that use devices that emitt IR wavelengths. It has implications for those of us like you and I that rely on sunscreens to protect us from the damaging solar radiation. Should we be worried about the infrared stuff too? That is a very good question! |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:31 am |
James,
I didn't see your post when I wrote mine. I hope that you can clarify some of what I just wrote on this. It does seem like an area where there is conflicting research. Or perhaps I just haven't seen enough of the research.....
Theresa |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:01 am |
Hi there, I can see your worries. The infrared of the sun is different than de infrared lights, there are no UVA or UVB in there, those are not good.
I found a link here I found to be very useful
https://plus37.safe-order.net/heelspurs/a/led/led_research.html
I do believe there is a future in LED's. I wished AT would give more information about their product itself, tests? how do we know that the wavelengths are this or that? are there any written things about their product? |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:19 am |
| hkyarrington wrote: |
Hi there, I can see your worries. The infrared of the sun is different than de infrared lights, there are no UVA or UVB in there, those are not good.
I found a link here I found to be very useful
https://plus37.safe-order.net/heelspurs/a/led/led_research.html
I do believe there is a future in LED's. I wished AT would give more information about their product itself, tests? how do we know that the wavelengths are this or that? are there any written things about their product? |
Great Job HK -
I just want to give you some supporting documentation. I researched this a long time ago, because I was not going to use something that would cause cancer on my own mother!
Be back when I have the time to get it all together 
James |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:28 am |
hkyarrington that is a great link. Not just concerning the safety issue either. It has alot of information. I plan on re-reading it to absorb it all.
Infrared light is infrared light and while the intensity may vary by the source it is the wavelenght that makes it infrared light. I agree that there is no UVA/UVB in devices like the Quasar and that these wavelengths are present in sunlight. But some of the links I provided seem to indicate that infrared light by itself, even in the absence of UVA/UVB, may not be safe. This is what I want to find out for sure. Is infrared light harmful or is it beneficial or is it both? |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:39 am |
Before I give you more detailed information, this is a link a rather enjoy that gives a simple explanation.
When you delve into this question, you first need an understanding of the electromagnetic spectrum and electromagnetic radiation. This will actually answer other questions for you like "Do cell phones cause cancer or microwave ovens?"
Tell me what you think about this link. I have had it in my back pocket when speaking to friends about this for quite some time.
http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/environment/cellphone.html
If you have questions about this article, post them and I can help clarify. I will get you more info when I have a moment, but my real objective is to pull apart the links originally provided in this post.
James Bressi |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:54 am |
James,
That is a good link and a worhtwhile read. I myself tend not to fall for "scare" tactics that are not based on evidence. And I really agree with what they have to say about causation. I firmly believe that too many times we think cause when all a study really shows is a "link".
BTW while the word cancer is certainly scary, I am actually more concerned here with the parts about photoaging and inducing MMP expression. I have read enough about MMP enzymes to be concerned about using something (whether it is a device or a topical) that will cause these to be more active. And yet if I recall correctly one of the benefits observed with the Gentle Waves was a reduction in MMP enzymes! There is just so much information out there.
I really look forward to you pulling apart the links that I provided. If you can convince me you can probably convince most people!
Theresa |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:22 pm |
James,
I just thought I would add that studies that directly contradict the ones I listed would be great to see. Studies where they did the same thing and came up with a different result or conclusion. Or where they employed a different meathodology and came up with different results showing that perhaps the meathodology of the original study was flawed.
Theresa |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:40 pm |
@ theresa, well you are certainly more informed than I am  I looked specifically into the FDA database, about for instance Gentlewaves and Revitalight, both FDA approved, which in my opinion means it is not harmful. As you know the NASA had research for woundhealing (also for cancerpatients) which has been found very beneficially. |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:54 pm |
hkyarrington I don't necessarily think that I am more informed.
My take on the FDA is that just because something is FDA approved does not mean that it is harmless.
Let's look at Vioxx a prescription drug. Being a prescription drug this has gone through numerous studies to prove it was effective and safe. After a lengthy approval process the FDA approved it as a prescription drug. Only after it had been appoved for a while did potential problems arise (or if you want to believe the rumors Merck knew about them all along but hid them). Now we can argue whether Vioxx is really unsafe or not and if the benefits outweigh the risks and this is debated quite a bit by the arthritis community. Yet Merck for whatever reason pulled this drug off the market and now everyone is left wondering if it is safe or not. And yet a few years ago it was being touted as a "safe" alternative to traditional NSAIDS. So I don't necessarily believe that FDA approval guarantees that something is safe. Especially for things that have not been studied long term we never know what the long term effects will be until the product in question has been used/studied for a long period of time.
I do agree that there is conflicting evidence. I am familiar with the NASA studies and from the links I provided above you can even see that some of the evidence points towards benefit. In fact the Black-well link which is a review and not specifically a study points out both potential dangers and potential benefits! |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:17 pm |
@ theresa,
It is interesting you mentioned VIOXX, I myself have used that and was very upset when they took it off the market. When you take medicine with risks it should be monitored with the doctor, the reason it got off the market is because of lawsuits. I had hoped that it would come back on the market with a strong warning, but who knows maybe even doctors won't take the risk.
So basically we can say that nothing is really safe for us if we look it that way;) |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:30 pm |
| hkyarrington-I am no cynic and I did not mean by my comments to imply that nothing is safe. All I was trying to say is that I don't automatically assume that because something is FDA approved it is safe or harmless....... |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:38 pm |
well i can be a cynic and more while i'm aging:) almost on my way to 40 now
I'm not a scientist unfortunately, somehow I do see more and more LED machines coming on the market for different uses (I came across an eye-operation machine), I quess the reason is that it doesn't harm surrounding tissue/cells like other lasers can do. It really seems to be a very soft laser but does seem to work. |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:00 pm |
First of all: James you are wonderful. Thank you so much for being there to answer our questions. Too many times, when a negative issue arises, it is hard to find management. LED is very new to me. Some of these articles are like Greek (hard for the lay person to understand).  A.T. is lucky to have you James. We who purchased the BQ and SP appreciate our questions and sometime concerns being answered.
Thank you also TheresaL. . I want to know the pro and cons of any decisions I make.
Winnie
BTW: I saw my surgeon Friday....I have no more restrictions.  I am a little sore as PT is getting aggressive. After PT I use my BQ
oops...back to edit. It was hkyarrington that posted the article. Thanks Your post made me feel better. Still think you are great James not to avoid these subjects.  |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:04 pm |
| Very well said Winnie! |
_________________
Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:03 pm |
| Winnie wrote: |
First of all: James you are wonderful. Thank you so much for being there to answer our questions. Too many times, when a negative issue arises, it is hard to find management. LED is very new to me. Some of these articles are like Greek (hard for the lay person to understand). A.T. is lucky to have you James. We who purchased the BQ and SP appreciate our questions and sometime concerns being answered.
Winnie
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Nicely said! |
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Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:45 pm |
| Chrissie wrote: |
| Winnie wrote: |
First of all: James you are wonderful. Thank you so much for being there to answer our questions. Too many times, when a negative issue arises, it is hard to find management. LED is very new to me. Some of these articles are like Greek (hard for the lay person to understand). A.T. is lucky to have you James. We who purchased the BQ and SP appreciate our questions and sometime concerns being answered.
Winnie
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Nicely said! |
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| AnnieR wrote: |
| Very well said Winnie! |
Now the pressure is on. Just want to let you know I am in bed with my highlighter, on the phone with a customer, and reading the mentioned articles all at the same time. It looks a lot less scary and concerning than originally thought.
Talk to you soon. Annie, hope you are doing well. |
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Tue Jan 30, 2007 6:55 am |
| Advanced Therapeutics wrote: |
Now the pressure is on. Just want to let you know I am in bed with my highlighter, on the phone with a customer, and reading the mentioned articles all at the same time. It looks a lot less scary and concerning than originally thought.
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James MUST be single!  |
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Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:58 am |
| Chrissie wrote: |
| Winnie wrote: |
First of all: James you are wonderful. Thank you so much for being there to answer our questions. Too many times, when a negative issue arises, it is hard to find management. LED is very new to me. Some of these articles are like Greek (hard for the lay person to understand). A.T. is lucky to have you James. We who purchased the BQ and SP appreciate our questions and sometime concerns being answered.
Winnie
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Nicely said! |
I Second it! (some of these articles are like Greek to me too...LOL). James you are doing a great job. We appreciate you! |
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