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Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:17 am  |
there are a lot of postings regarding this, but maybe we all came across new researches, informations or opinions...
P R O s
- after treatment the wrinkles are not/less visible anymore
- it helps the skin to relax and recover, so the wrinkles wont become any deeper
C O N s
- bottom line its a poison
- it goes to the brain?
- muscles are withering, as they are not used anymore... means it could in long term even make things worse, as the face muscles might keep the face "in shape"?
can anyone comment on this 
any truth in it - or not?
any more ideas?
another question:
i was told it cant be used around the mouth (a slight lol), but i feel especially there i would need it...so, mouth and chin...
any experiences regarding this? |
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Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:13 am |
Botox can't be used around the mouth because it wouldn't work there. You need to move your mouth. Fillers are used in that area.
When you have serious questions, the best tack is to refuse to take the risk. Any time you tamper with nature, you risk having unwanted and possibly unexpected side effects.
I share your suspicion that spot tampering with a face can eventually lead to having a strangely lumpy face in twenty or thirty years - by today's standards. However, if vast numbers of people wind up with the same strange lumpiness at the same time, then it will look normal. 8-) |
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Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:50 am |
I do have botox on my chin muscles, it stops me from clenching my jaw when I sleep and relaxes the lines at the corner of my mouth so they don't turn down. It takes such a minute bit to achieve because too much and I would look like the Joker.  . I know quite a few people who have had it for their upper lip and smokers lines and if they hadn't told me I would never guess, very natural effect. Again, as in all the other threads were this subject has been discussed, the final outcome is determined by the injector and a skilled professional is worth their weight to me. Unnatural effects are achieved when too much is given in the wrong places and/or it's being abused. |
_________________
Joined the 50 club several years back, blonde w/ fair/sensitive skin, Texas humidity and prone to rosacea, light breakouts and sunburns, combo skin type, starting to see sundamage and fine lines |
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Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:46 pm |
| Can botox be used under the eyes? |
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:40 am |
| chinachatters wrote: |
Botox can't be used around the mouth because it wouldn't work there. You need to move your mouth. Fillers are used in that area.
When you have serious questions, the best tack is to refuse to take the risk. Any time you tamper with nature, you risk having unwanted and possibly unexpected side effects.
I share your suspicion that spot tampering with a face can eventually lead to having a strangely lumpy face in twenty or thirty years - by today's standards. However, if vast numbers of people wind up with the same strange lumpiness at the same time, then it will look normal.  |
regarding the lumpy face...
i cant imagine this wont happen...
and maybe - if everyone has got this lumpy face, there will be another (expensive) remedy for this invented  ... |
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:45 am |
| AnnieR wrote: |
| I do have botox on my chin muscles, it stops me from clenching my jaw when I sleep and relaxes the lines at the corner of my mouth so they don't turn down. It takes such a minute bit to achieve because too much and I would look like the Joker. . I know quite a few people who have had it for their upper lip and smokers lines and if they hadn't told me I would never guess, very natural effect. Again, as in all the other threads were this subject has been discussed, the final outcome is determined by the injector and a skilled professional is worth their weight to me. Unnatural effects are achieved when too much is given in the wrong places and/or it's being abused. |
 ..yes, thats my most concern, too, which prevented me from having botox yet: - to find the right doctor/beautician..
that - around the mouth it is not done - i was told once by a very experienced beautician...she was even laughing and ridicule the question...
but to me the most important spot would be exactly there too, and as you mention it, the corners of the mouth for sure...
of course - when imagining it, this area is somewhat relaxed, it scares, as i would think you at least "feel" somehow "handicapped" in smiling, speaking, eating etc...
but maybe its really just the right dose...
and to minimize the risk of things going wrong, it might be best to find the most experienced injector... |
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:46 am |
| ruk1 wrote: |
| Can botox be used under the eyes? |
no idea, really, just have read about crowfeet, what seems to be the classic treatment, besides the frownlines.. |
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:48 am |
another question:
if things go wrong with the botox, and it was maybe too much, or the wrong spot hit, is there some sort of antidote which can be injected afterwards to undo the relaxation effect |
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:01 am |
Botox can be given around the mouth. Allot of people think that you can't have Botox below the nose, but this isn't correct. In Asia they use it all over the face and neck.
I've had Botox injected in the corners of my mouth to address the marionette lines - can't say it made much difference. I will continue to get it in my 11s though - it's wonderful for getting rid of those forehead wrinkles and I have the added benefit of it helping to control my migraines. |
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Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:49 am |
Botox on the Brain?
By Joan Kron
When Botox was first used to relax frown lines, the notion of injecting anything related to botulism into your forehead seemed crazy. But by 2002, when Botox Cosmetic was approved by the FDA to treat forehead lines, consumers as well as doctors had become convinced of its safety.
To date, it's estimated that over one million people have used Botox to relax their forehead frown lines temporarily. But new fears about the substance surfaced recently after reports about an Italian study in the April 2 issue of the Journal of Neuroscience.
It revealed that when botulinum toxin, type A (the active ingredient in Botox), was injected into one side of adult rats' brains, minute particles of protein in the toxin were found in the other side of the brain. Tiny particles also traveled to the rats' brains after the substance was injected into their whiskers.
Although the shots consisted of purified botulinum toxin—not, according to the study author, "a commercial preparation" of the substance (such as Botox)—not surprisingly, many Botox users panicked when media reports of the study questioned whether this meant that Botox could cause brain damage, such as dementia or Alzheimer's.
The study, however, did not suggest that. "I don't think fear is warranted," said Matteo Caleo, a coauthor of the study and a neuroscientist at the Neuroscience Institute of the National Research Council in Pisa. "I would not recommend that someone stop treatment." However, he adds that his area of expertise—and the purpose of his study—is not Botox safety, and that "additional work is needed. It is important to get more insight into this new aspect, in order to [understand] the spectrum of biological activity of a drug that is widely used."
American doctors with long experience treating patients with Botox are not alarmed by the study. "There is nothing in this paper that says these injections will damage neurons or that there are long-term side effects," says Gary Borodic, a Boston ophthalmologist and senior surgeon at Harvard. (He has no association with Allergan, the manufacturer of Botox and Botox Cosmetic.) "The paper deals with the mapping of botulinum activity on the nerve cells, which is a scientific study. It's not a safety study, many of which have previously been conducted in large scales for many indications."
Botulinum toxin at full strength is a deadly poison that can depress breathing, but it is highly diluted in Botox and Botox Cosmetic. Borodic, one of the first physicians to study Botox, has treated patients with neck spasms, eye twitches, and crossed eyes—as well as cosmetic conditions—with the substance since it was first approved by the FDA for clinical trials in the 1980s.
"Medical patients get several hundred units of the drug at one time," Borodic points out, whereas cosmetic treatments "require only a fraction of that—20 to 40 units." Although the amount of neurotoxin administered in the Italian experiment was not excessive for rodents, Caleo explains, it is impossible to compare the concentrations to those used in people, because rats' muscles are so much smaller than humans', and because every species has a different and unknown rate of uptake of the toxin.
Caleo is not worried about cosmetic doses of Botox, but is concerned about excessively large doses of toxin in children with cerebral palsy, an off-label use that has caused problems, including at least one death. (Botox Cosmetic is approved only for adults 18 to 65.)
Botox is supported by large-scale clinical studies and hundreds of scientific articles. And one small study in rodents cannot discount decades of safe use—with a few exceptions—in humans, says Borodic. "The drug has a proven safety record for cosmetic injections," says Borodic. "In all the time it has been in use, we have seen no chronic negative effects."
That isn't to say it's foolproof, he adds—there have been cases of eye drooping after injections in the forehead, which almost always resolves itself over a period of several weeks. But "there are no reports of any effects on the central nervous system"—the brain and spinal cord—"such as dementia, seizures, or degenerative neurological disease after years of repeated dosing in many thousands of patients." And as far as risk of death from Botox Cosmetic, the FDA confirmed that there has never been a reported death where a causal link to Botox Cosmetic was established.
Caleo points out that, in his findings, the fact that some tiny amount of protein remained in the brain "could be good from a therapeutic point of view. This may have a beneficial effect, making the toxin last longer or reducing the severity of headaches. The exact consequences we cannot tell, but it's worth investigating."
Borodic's opinion is similar. "The good news about the study," he says, is that it shows "the toxin might someday be used to treat brain diseases like Parkinson's, dementia, and epilepsy"—a condition being studied with high doses by the Italian group. "It would a shame if people campaigned against it. This study has been blown out of proportion and may scare people unnecessarily."
http://www.allure.com/magazine/2008/05/botox |
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Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:51 am |
at first glance, it sounded rather calming to me...
but, i take from it, that nobody has a clue what botox does to the body in long term...
sounds hard, but this i read there...
just some guessing from the guys, that it wont turn out that bad...
no risk - no fun... |
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