A non-comedogenic base serum/cream/lotion to fomulate with?
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Sat Apr 12, 2008 1:40 am

Having very acne prone skin. I am having a very HARD TIME finding strictly non-comedogenic lotion/cream/serum that doesn't contain the following highly comedogenic ingredients:

Algae extract

Cetearyl Alcohol

Ceteareth 20

C12-C15 Alcohols Benzonate

Isopropyl Palmitate

Glyceryl Stearate SE

Laureth 4 and 23

Octyl Palmitate

Sodium Chloride

Many Oils/Emollients (natural and synthetic), including coconut and sweet almond.

and there are of course many more, but these i find th e most difficult to avoid in any formulations.

I understand these is a lot of rave about Sea Kelp Bioferment. However, I have not found extensive discussion regarding its comedogenicity.

I like to try SKB, but

SO, the question: is Sea Kelp BioFerment a derivitive of Algae extract? Algae extract is extremely Comedogenic!!

Any thoughts?

I have a huge list of moderately - high comedogenicity ingredients that i check against every product.

And so far i could not find a base cream, base lotion, or base serum (to formulate with) that does not contain at least one or more of these ingredients on my list list!!! HELP!

If anyone can recommend a base that contains ONLY STRICTLY non-comedogenic ingredients (0-1/5, not more), please suggest and share!

Thank you.

free skin care · Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:46 am

2012 wrote:

Having very acne prone skin. I am having a very HARD TIME finding strictly non-comedogenic lotion/cream/serum that doesn't contain the following highly comedogenic ingredients:

Algae extract

Cetearyl Alcohol

Ceteareth 20

C12-C15 Alcohols Benzonate

Isopropyl Palmitate

Glyceryl Stearate SE

Laureth 4 and 23

Octyl Palmitate

Sodium Chloride

Many Oils/Emollients (natural and synthetic), including coconut and sweet almond.

and there are of course many more, but these i find th e most difficult to avoid in any formulations.

I understand these is a lot of rave about Sea Kelp Bioferment. However, I have not found extensive discussion regarding its comedogenicity.

I like to try SKB, but

SO, the question: is Sea Kelp BioFerment a derivitive of Algae extract? Algae extract is extremely Comedogenic!!

Any thoughts?

I have a huge list of moderately - high comedogenicity ingredients that i check against every product.

And so far i could not find a base cream, base lotion, or base serum (to formulate with) that does not contain at least one or more of these ingredients on my list list!!! HELP!

If anyone can recommend a base that contains ONLY STRICTLY non-comedogenic ingredients (0-1/5, not more), please suggest and share!

Thank you.

I use this quite a bit, I use it under my moisturizer though but it probably can't hurt to look into it though:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/psf-ha-serum-p_4947.htm

free skin care · Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:46 am

hello

I don't know what resources you are using to define comedogenicity, but as I have learnt that analyzing individual ingredients is not always so helpful.

I used to be very very very concerned about using synthetics and direct oils (pure oils) on the skin because of their potential comedogenicity. It turns out that there are many well formulated products which contain a sleuth of synthetic, refined petrochemical ingredients that work very well on my congestion prone skin.

I have used seakelp bioferment before, but it cannot be absorbed by the skin if you use it neat, the polysaccharide molecules are too big and you end up forming a seal over the skin that balls up very easily. You have to mix the bioferment into something like a basic water+glycerine mixture, or a light oil.

Many "cold cream" and barrier repair type products contain things like paraffin, petrolatum, plant fatty acids, refined synthetic and natural fats etc... and they are tested as non comedogenic. Comedgenicity is also very relative to an individual's skintype, you can put Dove's cold cream on one person with oily and acneous skin and it may even help clear up their skin, while someone else may develop cystic acne.

There also needs to be some consideration of a person's existing skin processes and if they have any irregularities - like fast skin turnover and sensitised skin barrier - all can determine how a certain product is tolerated by the skin.

free skin care · Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:54 am

I would suggest Garden of Wisdom super hydrating gel:

Quote:

Ingredients:

Distilled Water
Tamarind Seed Extract
Yeast Extract
Sodium PCA
Hyaluronic Acid [Bio]
Optiphen

http://www.gardenofwisdom.shoppingcartsplus.com/catalog/item/4013927/4107006.htm

Or maybe their base cream:
deionized water
coconut milk
emu oil
watermelon seed oil
polawax
emollient esters
galactoarabinan (polysaccharide)
glycerin
allantoin
optiphen

But the base cream has some oils you might not want...

Quote:

Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:05 pm

Miranets,

Indeed the comedogenic (cmg) issue is very individual, i have gathered many list of cmg ingreidents, one of them is from dr. James Fulton (??) for example, I tried to gather "scientifically sound" (full comedogenicity standard procedure performed in the lab kind of thing) list whenever i could.

I tried to post the links here, but the forum would not let me because I am a new member.

I acutually like oil, as i use differin and lactic acid/BHA (Lacal by skin biology and BHA by paulas's choices) plus Benzol Peroxide for my acne, and it makes my skin very dry. But i just don't know what kind of oil is good for me.

jojoba and emu seemd to be ok, the rest i am not sure for my skin. As i have not tried enough to say.

I have many blackheads, some inflamed acne, type 3 Asian skin, very sensitive. Now very dry due to medication mentioned above. But very prone to congestion/comedos.

Can you suggest oils? from your experience, what oils does not break you out and absorbs easily. Thanks.

my skin is so so dry now... that i could not even open my eyes right... my acne regimen is too aggressive for my skin, i think.

RE: petroleum based ingredients. I am torned about this, like you said, well formulated product with petro based stuff can work very well. Petrolatum is 0 comedogenicity (according to my list that is) but i think it is banned now in GB due to its link to breast cancer... but some well-respected skincare lines still use it, like cosmedicine.

What formulation have you used that you would recommend for my type of skin? petro or not.

Also, so the sea kelp bioferment + water+ glycerin or oil does not cause comedo on your skin? ( and i assume you skin does not have blackheads and active acne right now?) What kind of oil do you mix it with?

I am so desperately looking for moisture product that would relief my dryness right now, but given my current acne flare-up, i thought it may be the safest if i just avoid all the reportedly comedogenic ingredients (eventhough, some may just be ok for my skin, but since i don't know which ones and don;t really want to experiment on my currently already very troubled skin!)

You sound like you are very knowledgeble on this topic Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:27 am

Londonfan,

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have indeed been looking at GoW's super hydrating gel and Immortelle HA serum, Have you used them? If so, what's your experience? does it absorbs easily and can you put moisturizer and make up on top without it "balling"?

Also about GoW's base cream, if you have used it, do you find it greasy? or easily absorbed? Would love to hear your experience of any of the GoW product. I am about to make my first order.

But i was debating between the super hydrating gel, the moisturizing gel (with pearl power -- not sure if it would clog pores?), or the immortelle HA serum...

I actually like oil, since my skin is very dry now due to acne medication (see my post above)...but just don;t know what kind of oil is safe....

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:35 pm

Hi 2012, I replied to your post through PM.

A summary of my suggestions for someone in your situation -

*Stop using acids with Differin!! I don't know how you are using them, are you layering?? But acids should not be used in conjunction with Differin anyway.

*In your situation, you have definitely over-exfoliated your skin. Cut back all acne topicals, perhaps even reduce to Differin only.

*Focus on repairing your skin barrier. Oils are not going to help with dryness if you do not improve the skin as it cannot retain moisture very well.

*Once you repair the skin barrier, acne symptoms should improve (well it did in my case).

*Consider some niacinamide containing products to use in conjunction with Differin.

*Apart from oils, look for products rich in humectants for severely dry skin. A classic ingredient is glycerin.

free skin care · Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:46 pm

Hi 2012, from these items I tried and still use the base cream, which is wonderful, it moisturizes but is not too oily. The gel with pearl powder is wonderful as well, but I like to mix that with some drops of camille oil for moisture at night. I did not find it to be clogging. You can always mail the owner with questions, Markey, she is really helpful.

free skin care · Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:03 am

Comedogenicity testing is an archaic thing. Most modern cosmetics and skincare producers no longer use it.

It involves using a rabbit's ear and placing the ingredient on at 100% concentration, then counting the comedones that form. It's a poor substitute for human skin, and it doesn't account for variations in the population either. As well ingredients that are comedogenic at 100% concentration may not be when used at formulation levels which are usually 1%-20%.

Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:17 am

Yes, Truly. bunny ear and 100% concentration is no good indication of how a formulation containing an ingredient at X% will effect human skin. Let along the variations in population.

I can not agree more with the inadequacy of the bunny science.

However, my question is: If we throw away bunny *science completely, what can we use to guild us in choosing non-comedogenic ingredients?

Or is there really no other alternatives but to test it on our own skin?

Is there a well-established alternative yet? A more adequate and reliable (even though it's impossible to be true-for-all), but at least somewhat indicative guidelines regarding comedogenicity of skincare products and ingredients.

Furthermore, when a company labels a product non-comedogenic, how is that authenticated and accredited? Or is it just a buzz word, free-for-all selling gimmick? What scientific procedure has been performed and what result has been obtained to make such claim?

That's what is puzzling me. How can a consumer know whether the claim is validated and how? -- beside spending the money to buy and product and use their face as an experiment?

It's unfortunate the "bunny science", despite all the inadequacies, is the only well-published science on the subject I could find. The cosmetic companies have chosen to ignore the archaic bunny science, perhaps for the right reasons and perhaps also for their own convenience. But have they presented an alternative, a well-established substitute on the same subject?

If there is one out there, please let me know, because i have been really troubled by this problem. I would see words like this on a company's website..." this product has been tested to be non-comedogenic..." but what test?

One of the scientific studies i found does show how for certain substances, dilution to what percentage reduces the comedogenicity; Whereas for certain other substance, dilution does not alter it's high comedogenicity at all.

Of course, this is still bunny science we are talking about. But due to the lack of a better guidelines, I could only conclude this: If an ingredient is proved to consistently produced huge and large number of comedos in bunny's inner ears, even after dilution to low %, then it *MAY* indicate its potentially similar effect on human skin.

If anyone has a better general guideline or information on comedogenicity of skincare/cosmetic product, please please share and let me know. Greatly appreciated.

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