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Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:52 pm  |
| I was told by people on this board that my clogged pores may be due to my products containing silicone's. Maybe my moisturizers, cleansers? But how do I know. I search on the web to see if I can find out if the products I am using contain silicone's, but I never find any information out. So I am in search of a product line- a Cleanser that is a BHA and moisturizer that does not contain silicone's. |
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39 Year "young" female, Using PTR glycolic cleanser and Finacea with success! Passion for living and love Sunny Days/Beaches and The Ocean |
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Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:15 pm |
Just look for products that DON'T contain the following:
Polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS),
Dimethicone, (this is the hardest to avoid, IMHO)
Cyclomethicone,
Cetyl dimethicone,
Cyclopentasiloxane,
Silicone oil
Description
Silicones are a large group of compounds that include large polymers containing silicon. Depending on the formula and the degree of polymerization and cross-linking of the polymers, they may be slippery liquids, waxes, or rubbers.
Uses
Silicones are used as emollients (skin softeners), as lubricants, as thickeners, and as volatile liquids that make coatings feel smooth, but evaporate without leaving a greasy residue.
Highly cross-linked silicone films are used in cosmetics to form films that absorb sebum (skin oils) and prevent shine.
Cyclopentasiloxane is a low viscosity, volatile liquid used as a carrier. It lubricates, and prevents hair sprays from being sticky to the touch. It evaporates completely, leaving no residue.
Dimethicone is another name for polydimethylsiloxane and is used to impart a soft velvety feel to hair or skin products. It is also used as an emulsifier for "water-in-oil" emulsions.
Trimethylsiloxysilicate is a film forming resin, used to keep hand lotions and sunscreens from washing off.
Cetearyl methicone is a polysiloxane wax. It replaces petrolatum in products such as hand lotions to give them a non-greasy feel.
For the BHA + moisturizers, I wouldn't go crazy trying to find that in a cleanser. (It will just be down the drain in a minute.) That would do you the most good as the final steps. |
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♥I'm flattered by all the lovely PM's, but I don't get here much these days. Please don't be afraid to post your quearies to other DIY members who will be glad to help you (or sell you their wares..lol) Still happy with LED, dermarolling and a DIY antioxidant regime. Peace & Hugs to all.♥ |
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Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:04 am |
| I wouldn't be too concerned about silicones in products, particularly those that completely dissipate. Some people have reactions to particular types of silicones but most of us have no ill effects at all. |
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Skin: Over 60, ex combination now sensitive, Cellcosmet |
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Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:37 pm |
Bergquis:
I couldn't resist replying altho' some EDS members would probably prefer that I be tarred, feathered and quartered than post my comments.
Bushy is right, many people have no problem with silicones. I am not one of them. For that I count myself fortunate because it has led me to discover quality, much better performing products that do not contain them. If that were the best reward, it would be sufficient. But the really best reward is that the products I use are less expensive than most that contain silicones.. That's a big plus in anybody's book.
The leading scientist of one of the skincare companies lauded on this forum has explained to me why some skin reacts so negatively to silicones. Without going into the long scientific explanation it is b/c just below the surface of the skin, there is a very uneven deposition of protein which tend to knot up as part of a crosslinking error in signaling. Elastic strands of tissue tend to over shoot the mark, creating knots in the long strands and induce a clumping together. This has the habit of manifesting in the form of tumor, milia, lump or cyst problems in other areas as well, (eyes, lungs, skin, mucosa areas, etc).
This is a common occurrence in the teens when hormonal madness strikes. As we age it usually subsides. But for many it doesn't. With respect to emollients that are not absorbing (silicones) the skin reacts negatively (scientist's words, not mine). In my case, silicones clog my already moisturized skin something fierce (I tend to oiliness), causing blackheads, enlarged pores, very puky coloured skin - just an overall UGH factor, and that's only on the 2nd application.
The scientist also says the crosslinking error condition can be exacerbated by environmental factors -too much sun exposure & altho' he didn't say so, I expect poor dietary and skincare habits.
Rather than not being too concerned about silicones, you might instead examine your skin for signs of unusual bumps/small inexplicable protrusions, excessive oiliness, especially in the T zone, milia or sebaceous hyperplasia, cysts, etc. And do other family members have these?
Should you find any of these on yourself or family members, you may wish to consider many of the wonderful & non-silicone products on the market. In my experience, most of those are found in natural or organic lines but even here you must carefully hunt down all ingredients in a product.www.dermastore.com is the most reliable source I have found that lists all ingredients in all products it carries.
Sites likewww.ncnskincare.com,www.gardenofwisdom.com,www.cellbone.com are just 3 sites that carry beautiful products that are silicone free & inexpensive. Major skin care companies and expensive lines most always contain silicones and are expensive compared to those I've mentioned.
And contrary to the natural emollients used in organic lines, silicones are synthetic. Probably another reason why they are non-absorbing.
Hope this has helped.
I rest my case. |
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Thu Jul 10, 2008 11:43 pm |
| Arya2, that was a really good answer regarding the effect silicones can have on some skin types. |
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Skin: Over 60, ex combination now sensitive, Cellcosmet |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:46 am |
| bushy wrote: |
| Arya2, that was a really good answer regarding the effect silicones can have on some skin types. |
Thank you Bushy; I appreciate that. You can imagine how pleased I was to learn the scientific reasons for my skin's reaction to silicones. He said my skin would react the same way to anything applied to it that is non-absorbing, meaning a wide range of things, including VitE.
He also explained that many forumlators use 'built'(counterfeit I suppose) silicones instead of a silica based product which is a natural substance. Of course, counterfeit anything leads to a whole host of other problems. He says a consumer has no way of determining if a product contains 'good silica' or 'built' cones unless he/she does some serious homework.
Most surprising to me was his assertion that skin like mine should notuse the skin exfoliating acids. This just increases the formation of clumping proteins. Instead we should use pore cleaning salicylic acids.
So with that I have to embark on a whole new treatment program and further $$ outlay!
Whew!!!!!! |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:42 am |
arya2, thank you for taking the time to explain some of this. Plse excuse my uneducated question, but if I've always struggled with blackheads, would the only way to determine the cause (if silicones) be by eliminating anything with silicones? In other words, I don't know why I have them but sure wish I could get rid of all of it.
You mentioned an expert also recommending you not use acids on your skin. I find that interesting because I've always thought for blackheads it was necessary to exfoliate those clogged pores. The other part that stumps me is even though I may exfoliate and unclog those pores, they usually return.
My skin has changed over time and now that I'm 49, fine wrinkles and uneven texture are evident but the one thing I've always had are blackheads & they make me nuts! I've made progress with the KH line but those clogged pores are sure stubborn.
Thanks for listening and any ideas anyone may have! |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:15 am |
| Hey arya2 any idea what this crosslinking condition is called? |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:54 am |
| edenfield wrote: |
| Hey arya2 any idea what this crosslinking condition is called? |
Yeah, lysyl oxidase from what I've gleaned from his email. He goes on to say it has a Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde quality in that it is necessary to help form elastic strands of tissue and when it gets on in the years, or has been damaged by environmental factors, it tends to over shoot the mark, creating knots in the long strands and inducing tumorogenesis.
For me, the result is sebaceous hyperplasia, and yes, they really do look like little knots of stuff that have clumped together under the surface of the skin. Milia is another symptom. |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:38 am |
| blesstd wrote: |
arya2, thank you for taking the time to explain some of this. Plse excuse my uneducated question, but if I've always struggled with blackheads, would the only way to determine the cause (if silicones) be by eliminating anything with silicones? In other words, I don't know why I have them but sure wish I could get rid of all of it.
You mentioned an expert also recommending you not use acids on your skin. I find that interesting because I've always thought for blackheads it was necessary to exfoliate those clogged pores. The other part that stumps me is even though I may exfoliate and unclog those pores, they usually return.
My skin has changed over time and now that I'm 49, fine wrinkles and uneven texture are evident but the one thing I've always had are blackheads & they make me nuts! I've made progress with the KH line but those clogged pores are sure stubborn.
Thanks for listening and any ideas anyone may have! |
Firstly, I can only speak of my own experience & as a mostly right brained person, I'm no scientific expert. I completely understand your irritation re blackheads. They too, with the seb. hyperplas. have been the bane of my skin's existence. Have always had the blackheads while the seb. hyper. became active in my late 30s, I suspect hastened along by over exposure to sun.
It does seem perfectly reasonable that we should concentrate on salicylic acid rather that glycolic acids. The sals. do a much better job of getting down into the pore and cleaning them out. And as blackheads are another sign of overactive oil glands, it behooves us to be careful about applying anything that attracts even more dirt to our skin, cuz oil acts as a magnet to dirt. That's why he advises that anything the skin cannot absorb, like silicones & VitE,
be eliminated.
I can only suggest you consider salicylic acids. For me he suggests sal. peels @30%, spaced 2-3 wks apart, no lotion-type products, including lotion sunscreens, immediately desist using all gels & serums - concentrate on breaking down these clumping proteins to the extent possible.
Re Makeup, some yr back I realized my skin didn't like foundations -just too much stuff for it to handle.
So it's not a matter of eliminating acids, but using the correct one. He also says that for us, microdermabrasion speeds up the cross linking/clump forming activity. Suggested Differin for me (haven't
a clue what it is yet....  )
So have reached the point where I'm awaiting further advise from him re a skin program. Don't want to eliminate CPs, organic hydrosols and oils as these my skin can absorb these. He's evaluating my custom made SS, which is not a lotion, thank god.
Bottom line - no silicones, sal. acids not glycolics, use sal. peels, no microdermabrasion, no lotion sunscreens (says to try mineral powders with SPFs & Colourscience Sunforgettable for sun protection - but don't think it's strong enuf for me as I spend a lot of time gardening),a gentle pore cleansing soap (awaiting his thots re Rhassoul Soap which I use).
That's his short-term advice. Haven't reached the long-term program yet.
Seems every yr. I learn sg new that my skin requires....  |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 3:03 pm |
| Thanks, arya2! I've tried salicylic acid products before (quite some time ago & can't remember which one) but never saw a difference, perhaps I didn't use it long enough and should try again. Have you tried any yet? |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:56 pm |
| blesstd wrote: |
| Thanks, arya2! I've tried salicylic acid products before (quite some time ago & can't remember which one) but never saw a difference, perhaps I didn't use it long enough and should try again. Have you tried any yet? |
No, but he does approve of my using the Rhassoul soap which is a good pore cleanser.
I'm going to receive a bunch of products that will help address my problems but for now he's suggested to cut out CPs & my SS. Ok to use organic hydrosols and organic jojoba oil for moisturizing along with lots of water misting. I'll start the Differin which I've learned is a retinoid product and the salicylic peels shortly.
He says if my face goes absolutely haywire it's A CLEAR MANIFESTATION OF ADDICTIVE RESPONSE TO YOUR CURRENT REGIME . I have no doubts whatsoever it will go haywire. Sounds like this will be like weaning it from drugs!
Am going to give this a try & see what happens. Short term uglies for longer term benefits. Glad I'm past the really vain stage of my life. Laughing at oneself is one of the great benefits of maturing. |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:45 pm |
| Sounds like you have a routine recommended by a professional and specifically for your skin type - I'd say that's worth trying and better than the "winging it" many of us do. Good luck! I hope you get great results! Oh yes, and please post when you do! |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:02 pm |
| blesstd wrote: |
| Sounds like you have a routine recommended by a professional and specifically for your skin type - I'd say that's worth trying and better than the "winging it" many of us do. Good luck! I hope you get great results! Oh yes, and please post when you do! |
Thanks for your good wishes. Have a feeling this is going to be quite an adjustment. His remarks about my current products/regime included: you are exfoliating your skin to the bone and you are destroying your skin and you will find that suddenly you will have a saggy, baggy unelastic thing in place of it . With remarks like that, one is inclined to listen. |
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Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:55 pm |
| I have used several silicone containing products, and they didn't clog my pores. On the other hand, I think they were even doing a good job in absorbing oils. |
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Combo, acne, dry inside, thick skin, never irrated. |
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Sat Jul 12, 2008 3:32 am |
OMG this is a revelation to me! I have been battling with my lumpy skin for years and have visited at least three dermatologists who all said that nothing could be done. Then I discovered this Forum and decided to dump all my various face creams in favour of oils and DIY serums, I also cleanse using OCM. The difference in my skin has been amazing - my forehead used to be covered in bumps but is now relatively smooth. So maybe it was the silicones in the creams that was causing all my trouble too.
I have had great success in treating my lumps by first rolling over them with a Dermaroller and then painting Mario Badescu Drying Lotion over the bumps. Guess what the lotion contains - salicylic acid! I've also been using Retin-A for about 9 months and I love it. So, it looks like I've been doing all the right things!
Arya2, I feel that I have found a compatriot! I will definitely be on the lookout for those pesky silicones now. Also, you might consider trying the OCM, it's really worked for me. |
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Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:38 pm |
| arya2 wrote: |
I'm going to receive a bunch of products that will help address my problems but for now he's suggested to cut out CPs & my SS.
He says if my face goes absolutely haywire it's A CLEAR MANIFESTATION OF ADDICTIVE RESPONSE TO YOUR CURRENT REGIME . I have no doubts whatsoever it will go haywire. Sounds like this will be like weaning it from drugs! |
Arya, 302 is all about breaking your skin's * spam alert * to various acids, topicals, etc. It's very interesting (and encouraging) to heard this from someone else.
Did he say why he wanted you to give up the CP's? Was it the additional stuff in the product, or the CP's themselves?
Thanks! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:52 pm |
Arya,
I've been following your journey with your skin and I will be interested to hear how you do with Dr. H's products. I find his ideas fascinating and the man has quite a sense of humor. I look forward to hearing how you do. |
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Recent Karin Herzog convert. |
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Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:19 pm |
| BluesHeart wrote: |
Arya,
I've been following your journey with your skin and I will be interested to hear how you do with Dr. H's products. I find his ideas fascinating and the man has quite a sense of humor. I look forward to hearing how you do. |
Arya, are you working with Dr. Huber? I didn't realize that! |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:23 pm |
| bethany wrote: |
| BluesHeart wrote: |
Arya,
I've been following your journey with your skin and I will be interested to hear how you do with Dr. H's products. I find his ideas fascinating and the man has quite a sense of humor. I look forward to hearing how you do. |
Arya, are you working with Dr. Huber? I didn't realize that! |
Bethany,
I may have made an assumption with that. It sounded a lot like his theories. Uhoh. You know what they say about assumptions. Now, I'm really curious.  |
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Recent Karin Herzog convert. |
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Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:31 am |
Hi again Arya2,
I have just been reading another thread where you recommend NCN's non-moisturising sunscreen. I was looking at this product earlier this morning, wondering whether it would be suitable for me. I already use NCN's Tinted Moisturiser which I love. So do you think the sunscreen would be good for under that? Do you use it yourself? I don't fancy the Colorescience powder one - I'm totally off powder mineral makeup because it's not suitable for my mature age skin, I'm 58. TIA. |
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Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:09 pm |
| Keliu wrote: |
Hi again Arya2,
I have just been reading another thread where you recommend NCN's non-moisturising sunscreen. I was looking at this product earlier this morning, wondering whether it would be suitable for me. I already use NCN's Tinted Moisturiser which I love. So do you think the sunscreen would be good for under that? Do you use it yourself? I don't fancy the Colorescience powder one - I'm totally off powder mineral makeup because it's not suitable for my mature age skin, I'm 58. TIA. |
Being that I have mature skin too (49 yo), may I ask what it is you like about the NCN Tinted Moisturizer? After application, do you also set it with a powder? I'm using powder mineral make-up and finding it doesn't look as nice as it once did (accentuates the wrinkles and pores). My skin has some discoloration so I'm not sure I can get away with something really sheer yet I'm wanting something fresh, dewy looking but not oily.
Have you tried other foundations too? Thanks for sharing your thoughts. |
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Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:50 pm |
| blesstd wrote: |
Being that I have mature skin too (49 yo), may I ask what it is you like about the NCN Tinted Moisturizer? After application, do you also set it with a powder? I'm using powder mineral make-up and finding it doesn't look as nice as it once did (accentuates the wrinkles and pores). My skin has some discoloration so I'm not sure I can get away with something really sheer yet I'm wanting something fresh, dewy looking but not oily.
Have you tried other foundations too? Thanks for sharing your thoughts. |
Yes, I had to give up on the MMU - it made me look like one of those old women with too much powder on their face. I'm actually on to about my sixth tube of the NCN Tinted Moisturiser - that's a record for me because I'm a product "whore". I have discolouration too, and I find the moisturiser covers just enough without looking like a mask. It lasts all day, the pigment doesn't separate so it doesn't go streaky and it has a nice dewy finish plus it has an SPF of 20. I apply it with a synthetic foundation brush (this makes it so easy to apply). Before I discovered the NCN product, I tried about six other brands, including the Laura Mercier one - but IMHO the NCN one is the best.
If you have a look at NCN's website you will see that the colour swatches for the makeup aren't very helpful - but contact Nanci because she is. She will help you decide on the correct shade - plus she can "tweak" the colour to fit your skin. |
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Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:08 am |
Blesstd,
I concur with Keliu, the TM from NCN is very nice. I had two samples and I keep meaning to purchase it. Another option is her liquid mineral foundation. It seems to give a little more coverage without the things I don't like about the powdery stuff. I've never been a fan of mmu so that says something. |
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Recent Karin Herzog convert. |
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Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:18 am |
Golly, so many posts and I've not rec'd any notification of them since July 10th!!!!!!
| Keliu wrote: |
Arya2, I feel that I have found a compatriot! I will definitely be on the lookout for those pesky silicones now. Also, you might consider trying the OCM, it's really worked for me. |
I did try OCM & it was great on about the first 4 attempts but thereafter seemed to strip my skin. Never thot that would be possible!!! Also, it was for me, a tedious exercise, hafta admit. Normally I'm very conscientious about my skin but the OCM bored me silly....shamefaced I am to admit it.
Very glad you've found sg that works for you and discovering the Badescu product. These discoveries are like finding a fragment of gold aren't they?
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