Any chemists here?
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free skin care · Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:26 pm

In the morning, I use Remergent DNA Repair cream, and then SkinActives AntiAging Cream with Resveratrol. As soon as I apply the SA cream, there is a smell of sulphur, similar to bad eggs. It's only when the two creams come into contact. Here are the ingredients of the SA Cram:

Water, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Sea Kelp Bioferment, Sorbitol, Butylene Glycol, Cetyl Alcohol, Glyceryl Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Stearyl Alcohol, Sesamum Indicum (Sesame) Seed Oil, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis (Almond) Oil, Persea Gratissima (Avocado) Oil, Glycine Soja (Soy) Isoflavones, Thioctic Acid, Sodium Hyaluronate, Punica Granatum (Pomegranate) Seed Oil (and) Astaxanthin (and) Lycopene (and) Alpha-D-Tocopherol (and) Tocotrienols (and) Lutein (and) Thioctic Acid, Cholesteryl Oleyl Carbonate (and) Cholesteryl Nonanoate (and) Cholesteryl Chloride, Carnosine, Carnitine, Coenzyme Q10, Resveratrol, Centella Asiatica, Epidermal Growth Factor, Superoxide Dismutase, Glutathione, Citrus Aurantium (Neroli) Essential Oil, Polysorbate 20, Citric Acid, Dimethicone, Carbomer, Triethanolamine, Diazolidinyl Urea, Phenoxyethanol Methylparaben, Propylparaben.

...and the Remergent:

Water, Santalum Album (Sandalwood) Extract (and) Phellodendrom Amurense Bark Extract (and) Hordeum Distichon (Barley) Extract, Cyclopentasiloxane, Glycerin, Pentylene Glycol, Hydroxyethyl Acrylate (and) Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer (and) Squalane (and) Polysorbate 60, Polysorbate 40, Acrylates/C10-C30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Arabidposis Extract, Butylene Glycol, Caprylyl Glycol, Disodium EDTA, Ergothioneine, Ethylhexylglycerin, Evodiox Rutaecarpa Fruit Extract, Hexylene Glycol, Lecithin, Micrococcus Lysate, Phenoxyethanol, Plankton Extract, Sodium Hydroxide.

Does anyone have any idea why this is?

free skin care · Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:34 am

There are several members who review Remergent products a lot. you could ask Bushy as she seems to be very experienced and knowledgeable with their products, including DNS repair.

free skin care · Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:55 pm

Thanks Harriet Smile

I will do so. It's quite a mystery to me, and a smelly one at that.

free skin care · Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:03 am

Antonia, I have no idea what could be causing the smell. I definitely know that Remergent DNA Repair has no smell and can be used with lots of products. I am not familiar with the SkinActives cream but do you know if you get the smell if you use the SA cream by itself or with any other product other than Remergent?

free skin care · Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:22 am

Hello Bushy, The Emergent smells clean and pure on its own. The SkinActives cream smells like tea. I have tried the SA with Skin Eternal cream and there is no odour. I have also used the Remergent with Skin Eternal and no odour. It just seems to be these two together. Weird huh?

free skin care · Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:23 am

Without mixing the two of these together and personally getting a "wiff" of what you are describing, it is difficult to pinpoint the source of the rotten eggs smell you are sensing.

So, with that being said, I will point out a couple of things that I see that may cause odors from these products.

First, the SkinActives cream is chock full of inherently unstable oils. Sesame Seed Oil, Almond Oil and Avocado Oil and perhaps even the Pomegranate Seed Oil are all notoriously unstable and will go rancid very easily. A rancid oil smell could have the odor of rotten eggs. So, my first question to you is how old is the SkinActives product you are using, is the jar partially empty, and how have you stored it?

The next thing I see is pH related. The SkinActives cream has "citric acid" in the formula. This is usually added to adjust pH, and in this case, adjust it down to a more acidic value. On the other hand, the Remergent product contains "sodium hydroxide". This material is also a pH adjuster, used to adjust the pH to a higher value to make it basic.

For those of you that remember your early chemistry classes, putting a base and an acid together will DEFINITELY cause a reaction. If you want to see this in action, put a little baking soda (basic: high pH) in a cup and then pour some vinegar (acid: low pH) on top of it!! The "volcano" that you get shows just how reactive these two can be!

So, if these two products are acidic and basic, putting them together is going to create a small almost unnoticable reaction. This reaction may be enough to release the rancid smells from the unstable oils, and viola...you've got rotten egg smell.

You can test this theory. Get some vigegar and add a small amount of water to it and mix thoroughly. This will be low pH, acidic. Take a small amount of the Remergent product and add the acidic water to the product and mix it together. Ignoring the slight vinegar odor, check and see if a rotten egg smell comes off.

If not, then take some baking soda and dilute it with just enough water to make it liquid. This will be high pH, basic. Now take some of the SkinActives product and mix the basic water with it, smelling carefully for the rotten egg odor. My gut feeling is this one may be the problem.

Let us know the results of your experiment!

John

free skin care · Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:35 am

NOTCH wrote:

Without mixing the two of these together and personally getting a "wiff" of what you are describing, it is difficult to pinpoint the source of the rotten eggs smell you are sensing.

So, with that being said, I will point out a couple of things that I see that may cause odors from these products.

First, the SkinActives cream is chock full of inherently unstable oils. Sesame Seed Oil, Almond Oil and Avocado Oil and perhaps even the Pomegranate Seed Oil are all notoriously unstable and will go rancid very easily. A rancid oil smell could have the odor of rotten eggs. So, my first question to you is how old is the SkinActives product you are using, is the jar partially empty, and how have you stored it?

The next thing I see is pH related. The SkinActives cream has "citric acid" in the formula. This is usually added to adjust pH, and in this case, adjust it down to a more acidic value. On the other hand, the Remergent product contains "sodium hydroxide". This material is also a pH adjuster, used to adjust the pH to a higher value to make it basic.

For those of you that remember your early chemistry classes, putting a base and an acid together will DEFINITELY cause a reaction. If you want to see this in action, put a little baking soda (basic: high pH) in a cup and then pour some vinegar (acid: low pH) on top of it!! The "volcano" that you get shows just how reactive these two can be!

So, if these two products are acidic and basic, putting them together is going to create a small almost unnoticable reaction. This reaction may be enough to release the rancid smells from the unstable oils, and viola...you've got rotten egg smell.

You can test this theory. Get some vigegar and add a small amount of water to it and mix thoroughly. This will be low pH, acidic. Take a small amount of the Remergent product and add the acidic water to the product and mix it together. Ignoring the slight vinegar odor, check and see if a rotten egg smell comes off.

If not, then take some baking soda and dilute it with just enough water to make it liquid. This will be high pH, basic. Now take some of the SkinActives product and mix the basic water with it, smelling carefully for the rotten egg odor. My gut feeling is this one may be the problem.

Let us know the results of your experiment!

John

Hi John, many thanks for the comprehensive answer. The SkinActives smells lovely and fresh and is less than two weeks old. Although I hate "wasting" any of my creams this way, I will get playing and post back Laughing

Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:32 pm

I'm a chemist, but not a dermatologist - anyway here's my best guess...
Thioctic acid (aka alpha-lipoic) contains sulfur, usually bound up in the molecule so you don't smell it, which is why the SkinActives smells just fine, and probably is, until it reacts with the sodium hydroxide in the Remergent, releasing a sulfur oxide into the air - hence the rotten egg smell. It probably also reacts with the citric acid, but there's nothing there to smell bad, so you wouldn't notice. There's not a lot of sulfur in the thioctic acid, so the reaction is over quickly and no more sulfur smell. Hope this helps...

free skin care · Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:36 pm

ViGirl, Thanks so much and welcome as I see this is your first post. Smile

Yes, the sulphur smell is fleeting, yet unmistakeable.

Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:40 pm

Thanks for the welcome Smile

free skin care · Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:04 pm

I actually found this topic really interesting as it highlights that not all products from different lines can be mixed.
Does this mean that the end result of using some products from different lines will modify how effective they are. Can they become less effective?

free skin care · Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:06 pm

I'm not sure that the smell necessarily means that the product may be less effective. It's not hugely offensive either, just a faint, but distinctive whiff. That said, I am sure that there are a few products out there that can't be mixed. I know that CPs and vitamin C will turn your skin a bright tanned colour. It washes off, but it was a shock to me when I looked in the mirror one morning and saw this red-brown face staring back at me.

free skin care · Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:40 pm

Hi Vigirl. I also found your comment really useful and interesting. I was wondering if you could comment more about the negative interactions.. I guess that would be too much for this topic ...maybe it could be a new one. I am torn about using more than one line at a time as I don't want to harm my skin or undo the good effects of a product. It's hard to stick to just one, or I want to use some things up. Thanks.

free skin care · Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:44 pm

vigirl wrote:

I'm a chemist, but not a dermatologist - anyway here's my best guess...
Thioctic acid (aka alpha-lipoic) contains sulfur, usually bound up in the molecule so you don't smell it, which is why the SkinActives smells just fine, and probably is, until it reacts with the sodium hydroxide in the Remergent, releasing a sulfur oxide into the air - hence the rotten egg smell. It probably also reacts with the citric acid, but there's nothing there to smell bad, so you wouldn't notice. There's not a lot of sulfur in the thioctic acid, so the reaction is over quickly and no more sulfur smell. Hope this helps...

Another welcome to EDS!! We love people that are in the know!!

free skin care · Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:32 am

Wow from another Remergent fan!

Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:25 am

Hello All!
I'm still learning to use this board - I thought I had replied days ago to harriet and bushy's question, but I must have not hit send or something - my apologies...

Anyway, I'd need to spend some time hunting down the chemical formulas for all of the ingredients and their concentrations in the products to give a complete answer, but I hope this will help a bit. (And I must confess that I too am a guilty product layerer Shhh

)

The short answer is yes, combining products can reduce their efficiency or even turn them into something entirely different (hence the orange-ness that was mentioned). The sulfur smell is an indication that the SkinActives is breaking down.

It may be insignificant, and all of the actives aren't involved - this is where you'd need more info... for example if there's just a little bit of sodium hydroxide in the Remergent, it might get used up first, leaving plenty of unreacted thioctic acid in the SkinActives - or it could be the other way around and the acid gets used up leaving extra sodium hydroxide (I tell my students it's like making ham and cheese sandwiches - you have to stop when you run out of bread, even if there's plenty of cheese left over).

Hope this is clearer than mud. Going out on a not-a-dermatologist limb here, I'd say it might be better to wait a little longer between applying the two products and see if that helps. The smell means that the skinactives is still sitting on top of your skin when you put the remergent on...

free skin care · Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:05 am

vigirl wrote:

The short answer is yes, combining products can reduce their efficiency or even turn them into something entirely different (hence the orange-ness that was mentioned).

Going out on a not-a-dermatologist limb here, I'd say it might be better to wait a little longer between applying the two products and see if that helps.

Hello, vigirl. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge with us all! I am a product layerer, as well. Would you recommend this with the layering of all products, meaning increasing the waiting between 2 products or just with the particular 2 that are being talked about here?

free skin care · Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:35 pm

I am also wanting to layer more products after reading these forums as I don't want to miss out on added benefits to my skin but I have been reluctant to use too many simply because I don't know what the reaction might be and the order especially of products from different ranges. I also wonder whether waiting a certain period of time after each one would help. I posted elsewhere that I have heard that vit C should be used at night because it (same as retinol) is deactivated by the sun so I want to use both vit c and retinol at night. I was going to use them on alternate nights, but if I can wait half an hour between them I could put them both on every night.

So useful to have a chemist in the family!!

Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:50 am

Hello again!
Unfortunately, there's no simple answer to these questions (sorry) - it depends on which active ingredients are in each product, what their concentrations are, and how they react with each other.

The lesson from this thread is that anything with sodium hydroxide in it will probably react with any acid in another product (if they're in the same product the makers have probably already adjusted concentrations to compensate).

Plus any time you notice a change in color, smell, or texture of products when they're mixed, it means they're reacting with each other (and hence not so much with your skin - which is what we pay the $$ for).

So I can't suggest a hard and fast rule about mixing, but I'd say look for these signs of reacting and adjust accordingly. HTH, and Happy New Year!

free skin care · Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:09 am

vigirl wrote:

Plus any time you notice a change in color, smell, or texture of products when they're mixed, it means they're reacting with each other (and hence not so much with your skin - which is what we pay the $$ for).

Thanks, Vigirl. That makes sense. Luckily, I have not had anything like that happen, yet!

free skin care · Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:59 pm

Thanks vigirl. I guess it's a matter of trial and error, but if I used the 2 creams (or Antonia with her 2 creams) and waited a while in between putting them on, how long do you suggest we wait? I can do this at night, but in the morning we're all probably a bit rushed and haven't really got the time to wait, or else we'd have to be extremely well organised and regimented, which I'm not.

free skin care · Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:04 pm

miss anna wrote:

Thanks vigirl. I guess it's a matter of trial and error, but if I used the 2 creams (or Antonia with her 2 creams) and waited a while in between putting them on, how long do you suggest we wait? I can do this at night, but in the morning we're all probably a bit rushed and haven't really got the time to wait, or else we'd have to be extremely well organised and regimented, which I'm not.

The key may be in sticking with one product line...not as fun, I know!

free skin care · Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:07 pm

I think Beth is on to something. And we just thought it was product loyalty they wanted!

Actually I will bet if you wait 20 minutes between for absorption and dispersion you would be okay. Hope Vi will be back to let us know what she thinks. I've had a lot of chemistry (but not a chemistry degree) and I know there is no simple answer.

Antonia - let us know what happens if you wait. I never used cp's and C's at the same time. C's in the AM, CP's in C in PM. Or Remergent and the Skinactives.

free skin care · Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:11 pm

sister sweets wrote:

I think Beth is on to something. And we just thought it was product loyalty they wanted!

Actually I will bet if you wait 20 minutes between for absorption and dispersion you would be okay. Hope Vi will be back to let us know what she thinks. I've had a lot of chemistry (but not a chemistry degree) and I know there is no simple answer.

Antonia - let us know what happens if you wait. I never used cp's and C's at the same time. C's in the AM, CP's in C in PM. Let us know if you wait some time between Remergent and the Skinactives.

free skin care · Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:55 pm

sister sweets wrote:

I think Beth is on to something. And we just thought it was product loyalty they wanted!

Actually I will bet if you wait 20 minutes between for absorption and dispersion you would be okay. Hope Vi will be back to let us know what she thinks. I've had a lot of chemistry (but not a chemistry degree) and I know there is no simple answer.

I am thinking the same thing, waiting 20 min or so before the next layer.

I definitely think there are certain lines that should be used as a system, but I think more often than not it is a marketing ploy to get that "product loyalty".

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