Engagement Woes...
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free skin care · Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:52 pm

My boyfriend of 2+ years proposed to me back in August. It was so very exciting and wonderful but one negative side to our relationship that has always existed is we do get into some pretty extreme & ridiculous arguements. Well, we had one of these on Friday evening - lots of regrettable things were said and in the end, he asked for the ring back. I yanked it off my finger and slapped it into his hand and of course, wouldn't you know it went flying into the dark streets of the city. Imagine the distress of patting damp cement on a cold winter night looking for an expensive engagement ring. Pure heartbreak really. Of course in the morning, he didn't mean it, sorrys all around & gave me the ring back but I am still sad about it. I feel like a proposal is so sacred & don't understand how could you go back on it just to hurt someone in an arguement? Has anyone ever had anything like this happen? What if this is just an indication of more things he might back out on????

free skin care · Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:12 am

i've dated a lot of guys who like to fight.. and they like to be harsh when they fight and say some extreme and hurtful things and not mean it later on. one thing i can say is if there is a pattern that they are like this that they will not really change.. its not that they mean to its just automatic for them and they've been doing it for so long (the fighting style) that it will not likely end abruptly

free skin care · Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:31 am

I am married for a full 25 years (with same guy Shock

) and arguing is something what frequently occurring in between us.
Well, I am pretty calm person - he is not. He always want to discuss and if it is something wrong - to find who is guilty. Oh dear lord, sometimes it is so boring and hard to deal with it. So far I can see that is something out of his control... he also was in war and have some mild PTSP issues lately. Sometimes I just endure all attacks calm, and sometimes I don't. In that cases - it is not an argue, it became a fight. Sad

To say over again - we are together for 25 years.
I love him - and love is nothing but acceptance of our partners imperfections. If you can't live with it, than it is better to broke up.

free skin care · Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:06 am

What affects a relationship the most is communication. And when you see how it affects you the most is in how you argue. That is something that can take many years to work on and as you have heard, doesn't always mean the end of a relationship.
Recognizing your communication differences and then trying to work on them is the first step, the rest is up to you two. If you love this person and your relationship is worth fighting for, then that is your decision so stand behind it and move forward. I personally don't understand that way of dealing with negative issues per say, but my hubby and I have been married over 25 years and we have made the decision not to say anything we can't take back or would have to. And I will add that it is very hard to do sometimes and it takes a lot of awareness and self-control (and mainly love).
But my reason for responding to your thread isn't to give marriage advice but to say your story isn't unusual but is actually very personal. It is a source of great heartache to me at times to say I know a loving and happy couple that went through a similar situation several times before just getting married. They love each other dearly and they always work it out by the next morning, it just drives the rest of us nuts and the stress of it affects other people. I am hoping they learn to communicate their anger/frustration/disappointment and express their feelings rationally without getting to that point. It isn't about how much they love each other, it's about how to communicate when they don't like each other's behavior that is the problem. Immaturity, selfishness and trying to re-learn communication mistakes from the past are their main issues. If this extreme worked in the past then they will keeping using that tactic again to control a situation when they don't like how it is going.
Sometimes when people don't feel like they are being heard or they want to discuss it NOW rather than when tempers are more rational, they feel they must say something harsh to get the attention or reaction they feel they are not getting. Most people are not raised with practicing the same types of communication skills. So it makes it particularly hard in a relationship or marriage when two types clash.
Whatever the reason, it is something that you should discuss with your partner or a professional before going further in your relationship. It doesn't mean you can't be happy, you can just save yourself a lot more stressful times.
And this was in my toast to the couple whom I adore/love:
"My advice to you about marriage is the saying , Marry the one you love and love the one you marry. You may not always like the behavior, but always love the person. BUT the most important thing that I could ask you to remember as you start your new life together is that life isn't always about happy endings, so much as new beginnings."
Look at this incident as something to learn from, to start over and from this day forward make a choice to not have it ever happen again. Recognize the signs before you get to that point again so that the reason for that experience was to learn from it, grow from it and be stronger in your resolve to make your marriage work.
I wish you luck and hope it all works out. (Just like I do for my special couple). I'm keeping my fingers crossed for everyone.
Smile

free skin care · Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:35 pm

that is very nice advice annier i totally agree with u that it is all about communication, type, and receptiviity

free skin care · Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:52 pm

It is amazing the level of comfort a few words from strangers can provide. Thank you so much to everyone that commented. I really liked what you said, mirjana, that love is nothing but acceptance of our partner's imperfections. AnnieR...your insight was priceless. I read every word so very carefully and I can't say how much it meant to me that you took the time to write that for me. I really believe putting the conscious decision into not saying anything we would have to take back is incredible and would be huge with us. I definitely am going to have a conversation with him to suggest that we can make a pact along those lines. Reading your toast to your special couple brought tears to my eyes. The part about life not always being about happy endings, so much as new beginnings blew my mind, because over and over in our fights, I have asked myself ' where is my happy ending ' ...but in the end, I do always want to start over. Everything you said was perfect and so applicable to me and the situation. THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart. I would swear that you were an angel sent to my emotional rescue.

free skin care · Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:51 am

My heart went out to you when I read your thread and felt your pain, I want that happily ever after for all of you. But the reality is that it is more likely to be a work in progress when you have obstacles to overcome in the beginning. Oh, but it can be done if you love someone that deeply and you are willing to work on the issues and it sounds like you both want that.
When I was growing up, my parents fought horribly and finally, thankfully divorced when I was 16. And although my dad never physically harmed my mom, the verbal is just as scary to young children. My mom would yell and try to get my dad (who was very calm) to engage in her angry tirades and the more he would not react the stronger her rants became. I saw that behavior from a child's view first hand and swore I would never subject my child to watching his parents fight like that. It's not healthy for anyone. So I became a pediatric therapist and worked at the Battered Women's Center with abused children because I understood what they had gone thru, although not to the degree that these kids experienced. Comforting them healed me and gave me the resolve to break the cycle of negativity of any kind in regards to child-rearing and marriage. I was lucky enough to find my DH and now 25 years later still thank every day for him. We had an only child who grew up knowing his parents never had a fight. We could however, have a very strong difference of opinion, but we were always respectful of the other persons feelings. My hubby is a rare breed and treats me as though I am worthy to rule the world (hence creating a monster)! And that's my point, you have to have someone treat you and make you feel worthy and special. For when they do, you can give back freely and more than you ever thought you were capable of. I became a minister a few years back and although I am not so much religious, I am spiritual and HOPEFUL. I married that other young couple recently and am very hopeful for their future, as I am yours. I spend time with a few of their friends who are engaged and are getting married soon and I am amazed at the way they communicate, or not.
So the young couple of whom I speak, if you haven't guessed yet, is my son and his new wife.
A very loving, happy and well-suited couple, just making their way in times of great stress in the world. They are working on learning not to push each other's buttons and to be more respectful but they have very strong personalities and pride and arrogance gets in the way of common sense too often I am afraid. I've shown him by example, now he has to learn it/teach it by living it. She learned that was the only way her mom got her dad's attention and it worked, too well I am afraid. If there is no payoff/reward, there is no reason for the behavior and it goes unheeded.
So I have learned that all I can do is to be there and support them, you can't get in the middle of it. I hope you have a good support system too (you are always welcome to PM me), and I am glad I was able to help. I am rooting for you!

free skin care · Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:12 am

as a child, i watched my parents have heated verbal arguements and am glad they are now divorced. Now that i'm getting married next year, me and my husband to be do get into arguements as well.
Me being a taurus who when angry see's red and always has to win a fight... i can be pretty mean and say hurtful things i will later regret in the heat of an arguement. And yes makeupfiend we have fought to the point where my bf asked for my ring back, but the next day we cool off and realize that what we fought about was stupid and that we love each other and that's what counts.

free skin care · Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:19 pm

Conflict can be healthy if done in a proper way, no relationship is immune from it for sure.
If you have seen or read the "The Notebook", which I consider one of the best chick flick/love stories ever, you see this type of relationship at its most poignant. And yet their love is so strong that it transcends the mortal body for the best one can hope for in that "happily ever after" or life there after.

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:39 am

While I agree that no relationship is totally free of conflict, I'm sorry, but to me this is a warning sign...sure, you have to accept imperfections in your partner, but I would say please confront and deal with the situation now, before you get married, or this could be a real issue down the road.

free skin care · Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:02 pm

clustersof3 wrote:

While I agree that no relationship is totally free of conflict, I'm sorry, but to me this is a warning sign...sure, you have to accept imperfections in your partner, but I would say please confront and deal with the situation now, before you get married, or this could be a real issue down the road.

Acceptance of imperfections of our partner is - pure love, as I said.
If you love somebody you can and you want to tolerate some if his bad habits or behaviour and so on...BUT it is not healthy and normal if this acceptance is coming only from the one person in partnership.
Both sides must accept another side imperfections (nobody isn't perfect) and live with that.
If this "mutual receptions" don't exist, and one partner is victim and blindly in love ...then that could became a simple masochism.

Lot's of people, more than we even think live in such a relationships, with excuse of love - and it is sad.

Clustersof3 is right - think now, it is much simpler now. After act of marriage... this act (with all his parts) can sometimes become some kind of "glue" which can stop us from escape if partnership is bad. And having children - even stronger glue.

be smart and good luck

free skin care · Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:14 am

I tend to think it's all a matter of temperament. I'm a very calm person, I hate conflict, I also take any type of criticism to heart and have trouble getting over any harsh words that are said to me. My husband is the opposite - he's hyperactive and stresses, he handles nothing calmly and can go completely psycho over the most tiniest of things. After the rant is over, he never carries a grudge and just goes on as if nothing has happened. Meantime I'm suffering and sulking.

I've tried discussing the way he carries on and the effect it has on me, but he either denies it ever happened or accuses me of exaggerating - which upsets me even more. I've discovered the easiest way to handle him is to basically just ignore his rantings, although sometimes it's very hard and makes me feel like a doormat.

Anyway, we've been together for nearly 30 years and basically have a very happy life together. I must admit that I sometimes envy women who are married to men that they can discuss their personal feelings with - but, then again, my husband is very good in other ways so it's a matter of compromise. Plus, I haven't met another man I would trade him in on! IMO, they've all got a screw lose in some way or other!

Makeupfiend - I'm sure you know in your heart if you can put up with your fiance. If you have severe doubts, this little episode would make a perfect opportunity to re-think your options. One thing is for sure, a leopard never changes its spots!

free skin care · Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:24 am

Keliu wrote:

I tend to think it's all a matter of temperament. I'm a very calm person, I hate conflict, I also take any type of criticism to heart and have trouble getting over any harsh words that are said to me. My husband is the opposite - he's hyperactive and stresses, he handles nothing calmly and can go completely psycho over the most tiniest of things. After the rant is over, he never carries a grudge and just goes on as if nothing has happened. Meantime I'm suffering and sulking.

I've tried discussing the way he carries on and the effect it has on me, but he either denies it ever happened or accuses me of exaggerating - which upsets me even more. I've discovered the easiest way to handle him is to basically just ignore his rantings, although sometimes it's very hard and makes me feel like a doormat.

Anyway, we've been together for nearly 30 years and basically have a very happy life together. I must admit that I sometimes envy women who are married to men that they can discuss their personal feelings with - but, then again, my husband is very good in other ways so it's a matter of compromise. Plus, I haven't met another man I would trade him in on! IMO, they've all got a screw lose in some way or other!

Makeupfiend - I'm sure you know in your heart if you can put up with your fiance. If you have severe doubts, this little episode would make a perfect opportunity to re-think your options. One thing is for sure, a leopard never changes its spots!

Very very similar situation in my marriage.

And I really can repeat your words "I haven't met another man I would trade him in on!"
Cool

free skin care · Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:17 pm

Mmm... I do think that what happened is serious.

You are to be married, probably to have children one day, to share your whole lives together. You both need to provide a healthy environment for both of you as well as your future children.

I think each couple is different but you both need to set limits and decide... "this is as far as we go" when you guys fight. For e.g. most couples (hopefully all) would think that getting physical is off-limits, no matter how angry you are. In my personal case, saying "it's over" or "give me back my ring", "I don't love you" would be off-limits (if a person wants to leave, it shouldn't be said in the middle of a fight).

You need to discuss this with your fiancee and both need to discuss what are your "limits" that will be healthy for you both and for your future children. These things won't "go away" so the sooner you address them, the better you will both be.
All the best,
Josee

free skin care · Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:45 am

I agree with many of the things that have been shared. Yes, love is about accepting a person for who they are imperfections and all. Just be sure their imperfections aren't so negative that they cause you lasting emotional harm.

I think this situation depends on your personality and outlook. For me personally, I take my relationships very seriously. If that same situation happened to me, I would take it as a gigantic red flag. Sometimes people say harsh things out of desperation (they are frustrated, poor communicators, etc), but sometimes they say it to intentionally hurt you or because you actually have pushed the truth out.

I think at best, there are some serious communication issues that need to be resolved, especially if you plan on bringing children into the marriage. Again, this is just my own bias, but I could not take someone seriously that threw those kinds of life altering words at me and then tried to take it back the next day. That is not the kind of person I would feel comfortable committing the rest of my life to.

I'm so sorry about your predicament and I hope things work out for the best for you.

free skin care · Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:02 am

I also agree that the way you communicate (fight) is a red flag.

My ex-husband had controlling/anger issues before we married, I thought they wouldn't get worse and I could live with the way they were because there were so many things I admired and liked about him.

After I got pregnant things changed for the worse and his behaviour (controlling/bullying) was much worse than before we married. He refused to go to counselling; I had no choice but to leave as it was an unhealthy situation for myself and my daughter.

I am not sure when you are planning on getting married but my advice is that you go to counselling for a year first (together and at least every 3 weeks). Don't do a group pre-marital session, do individual couples counselling.

Whatever trait you see in your future spouse that you don't like, ask yourself if you could live with it if it got worse after getting married.

I like the saying that goes something like "before you get married keep your eyes wide open in relationships, after getting married, keep them half closed".

free skin care · Sun Dec 27, 2009 9:16 am

For me personally I couldn't marry or date someone that I had such heated arguments with. Why deal with all the drama over something ridiculous? Particularity if regrettable things are said during the argument. The purpose of saying something you don't mean during an argument is to hurt the other person. Why would you want to hurt the person you love?

Its one thing to have arguments but why do they have to get so heated? What is really worth fighting over like this?
I see this as sign that the fights are really about some other issue. Perhaps communication just needs to be worked on, I dont know. But I would think long and hard if this is the kind of relationship I want to spend the rest of my life in.

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