Anyone ever had the uglies with 1st Gen SB Copper Peptides?
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Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:52 am

I have a genetic problem of drooping eyelids. My dad's started when he was 20 and mine are already drooping a bit at 29. You can't see my whole eyelid anymore in places and it really bothers me. I bought the Skinbio Ist Gen Copper Peptide Cream and have done nothing but look at it in fear since i got it. I did what any girl would do and decided to test it on my husband first Smile

He used it only on his upper eyelids as they are drooping alot - he's 35. He did it for 2 days and it's AMAZING!! His eyelids have tightened and lifted - I don't know how it's possible so quick? I really want to give this a go but the horror stories are really holding me back. Were all the bad reports on 2nd Generation? Any Uglies experienced using the 1st Generation? Thanks for your help!!

Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:54 am

I wanted to add that I searched the forums for over an hour before I gave up and posted this. I couldn't find anyone having a bad reaction to 1st Generation Coppers but wanted confirm if it had been reported.

free skin care · Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:19 am

Sunlit,

I had some major irritation problems with the 2nd generation and have downgraded to the 1st generation because of it. I've had no problems using the 1st generation. I consider my skin to be sensitive.

Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:13 am

Have you had a chance to see this thread? Not sure if the issues described came from 1st or 2nd generation CPs, but there are a few links inside that may lead you to more info:

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=35786&highlight=copper

HTHs. Smile

Thu Nov 26, 2009 2:19 pm

Yes, I've seen that thread too Smile

It always seems to be about 2nd generation. I really want to know specifically if the 1st generation have ever caused any issues. It would make me feel a heap more secure in giving it a go.

I have read that there is a fine line with copper peptides - just the right amount and you get collegen synthesis among other benefits, but, too much and you get collegen breakdown. I'm thinking that the 2nd Generation, even in small amounts, are too much for some people and tip them over into collegen breakdown and cause the long term effect people have described.

I'm wondering if that risk is as high with the 1st Generation Coppers given the different chemistry of the product and lower dose. if I could find out if anyone has had a reaction to 1st Gen I could make a more informed opinion.

i'm starting to think I need to go out and get a chemisty degree just so I can put cream on my skin - now that's an obsession Rolling Eyes

free skin care · Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:58 pm

Hi Sunlit,

I've used Skin Biology 2nd generation copper serum which my eyes didn't like at all. My face was okay with it but around my eyes looked awful; puffy with some sagging, didn't look good at all & never did get used to it with continued use. I'm now trying PSF Bio-copper serum which is the 1st generation copper and so far so good. No sign of puffiness (other than what I normally have at times) and no sagging. I like this serum much better than the 2nd generation one & I'm hoping it will improve my eye area.

I should add that I've only used the PSF for a week but the puffiness & drooping from SB serum was the very next day.

free skin care · Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:21 pm

dear all,

anytime you see me referring to problems and complications from copper peptides, i'm referring only to 1st gen ghk copper peptides.
i had a long and terrible reaction to the least potent concoction, used very sparingly, only sseveral times per week. basically, it completely changed the texture of my skin and sapped the elasticity out of it for a year +. my skin is back to normal now, thank goodness, and thanks to NIA24 and sticking with osea.

--avalange

Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:56 am

Thanks Avalange,
That's what I wanted to know. Did you get good results initially or did it start going bad from the beginning? How long did the problems take to start showing? Also do you mind if I ask how old you are? I'm 29 and thinking of using it kist to fix my eyelids that are beginning to droop. Thank you so much for the information, Sunlit..

free skin care · Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:18 pm

sunlit - I have used the 1st Gen on my eyes with great success. I started w/ the Super GHK Cream and then moved on to the Night Eyes and then the Night Eyes Premier. I would expierence a little looseness in my upper lids when I made the switch to a stronger CP, so I would have to back off a bit for a week or 2. The 'uglies' never stayed.

And - like your DH, I had great results w/ the lifting of my inherited hooded lids that have sagged w/ age. I use to not see any of the lower half of the lid near the lashes and the skin would drag as I applied eye shadow. The texture was also poor - crepe paper like. The CPs changed all that! Lids lifted, firmed up, texture smoothed. They worked great for me and I'm sticking w/ them (having used them for almost 2 yrs now).

free skin care · Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:19 pm

sunlit wrote:

Yes, I've seen that thread too Smile

It always seems to be about 2nd generation. I really want to know specifically if the 1st generation have ever caused any issues. It would make me feel a heap more secure in giving it a go.

I have read that there is a fine line with copper peptides - just the right amount and you get collegen synthesis among other benefits, but, too much and you get collegen breakdown. I'm thinking that the 2nd Generation, even in small amounts, are too much for some people and tip them over into collegen breakdown and cause the long term effect people have described.

I'm wondering if that risk is as high with the 1st Generation Coppers given the different chemistry of the product and lower dose. if I could find out if anyone has had a reaction to 1st Gen I could make a more informed opinion.

i'm starting to think I need to go out and get a chemisty degree just so I can put cream on my skin - now that's an obsession Rolling Eyes

sunlit - where have you seen that posted? I have never seen that mentioned b4 and I would love to see it - so include a link if you can. That doesn't sound right to me from all that I've read on CPs.

In my opinion, when used too fast, the CPs can cause the uglies. At least that's how it happened with me. It's important to go slowly with them.
BUT, I have never heard you can get collegen breakdown with them.

Sorry to hear they didn't work for you, avalange. I'm glad you found something that did.

free skin care · Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:57 pm

Not "sunlit", but I read the same thing here;

http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/copper.html

Caution: While moderate use of copper peptides stimulates collagen synthesis and has antioxidant effect (by stimulating the antioxidant enzyme superoxide dismutase), excessive use can have an opposite effect by increasing the levels of free copper and/or by triggering excessive production of metalloproteinases. Free copper promotes free radical damage and collagen breakdown leading to accelerated skin aging. Metalloproteinases can digest collagen and elastin, weakening the skin and causing sag. These problems do not seem to occur among the majority of copper peptide users. However, there are anecdotal reports indicating that such side-effects might happen with overuse or, rarely, even normal use in sensitive individuals. Ideally, a sufficiently large study is needed to better quiantify these risk.

free skin care · Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:59 pm

dear sunlit and foxe,

exactly. they seem to work for some people, and really do damage for others, whether it be 1st or 2nd gen.
for myself, i got a bit of tightening and irritation at first, but gradually, after about 2 months, i got a pitted orange peely texture all over my skin, and lost elasticity. little bumps all over, i think there are pics poisted somewhere. the texture of my skin is smoothed out now and normalized, but not after over a year of distress about its appearance. it sounds like foxe jumped right into the strong stuff and never had issues.
i never had what some people call the
"uglies," for the record; i just think i had a bad reaction to the active.
i was 30 when i began using the product.
when i directed an inquiry to the dr. who developed cps, he responded with utter surprise and defiance that such a young person would be using his product. so what i took from that experience is that it's NOT an anti-aging, preventative product, but more of a reparative product for skin that is already damaged.
I hope that helps! I think you'd be hard pressed to find success stories from people using it for anti-aging benefits.
as for droopy eyelids, i'd do facial exercises for that. topicals don't really work to tighten skin to the extent it sounds like you need. there is no "facelift in a bottle," so to speak.

--avalange

sunlit wrote:

Thanks Avalange,
That's what I wanted to know. Did you get good results initially or did it start going bad from the beginning? How long did the problems take to start showing? Also do you mind if I ask how old you are? I'm 29 and thinking of using it kist to fix my eyelids that are beginning to droop. Thank you so much for the information, Sunlit..

free skin care · Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:24 pm

Thanks for posting that Kassy

That would've been the one place I suspected of a comment like the one mentioned coming from.

I don't hold much water to that statement. Dr Pickart has said there seem to be no studies backing this particular claim whereas he has all of his studies backing his claims and said "There are zero reports of skin damage from the academic studies". (He must not count these forums LOL).

In any case, sunlit, you can see the results from DH's use of the CPs. Go slow on yourself for a mo or so to give it a try.

avalange- I did NOT jump right into the strong CPs. Quite the opposite. I took a very slow approach - esp since I had read a few negatives from some ppl on its use. For my eyes, I started w/ the Super GHK - that's the gentlest CP Skin Bio makes - B4 moving up to Night Eyes (next on the strength list), and then Priemier Night Eyes. For my face, I diluted the CPs in a 1:8 ratio of CP:H2O. I gradually changed that ratio over the course of a couple of mos and never had the uglies at all.

I should detail that a bit - I did see some uglies on my face a few times - it was when I spot treated w/ Super Cop 2X. Until my skin got use to that, I needed to be cautious about its use. AND, I did see some 'uglies' when I moved up in strength on my eyes - but never did w/ the Super GHK (and I never diluted the eye CPs)

free skin care · Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:35 pm

dear foxe,

sorry, i assumed that "super-ghk" was the super-strength product, since i have not looked at the line in quite a while. sorry for that!
i searched in my old email account for dr. pickart's "response" to my skin problems, and it's really quite alarming, in fact. He said that he is considering advertising that cps are not suitable for skin under 40 years of age, and wonders why i'd be using his products at age 30. then he speculates that i used a bunch of other products on my face that did damage my skin, and reiterates that there have been NO reports of adverse effects at all.
Here are the main tidbits; if you want, pm me and I'll send you the full email.

--avalange

Quote:

"These problems can be difficult and I don't always have an answer - at least one that will satisfy your client. We have many clients who have used our products for years and are very happy. But these are mainly women above 40. Younger women are very often unhappy and for reasons that may have nothing to do with our products. At times I have thought of putting a post on the website that we will not sell to women under age 30.
...

Your client may have over peeled her skin or she may have developed an allergy to the preservatives. She looks very young and I wonder why she is even using the products. Sometimes the cps increase skin oil. This is great for mature women but can be a problem with younger women.

But in general, our problems with GHK are about zero.

Sincerely yours,

Dr. Pickart"

foxe wrote:

Thanks for posting that Kassy

That would've been the one place I suspected of a comment like the one mentioned coming from.

I don't hold much water to that statement. Dr Pickart has said there seem to be no studies backing this particular claim whereas he has all of his studies backing his claims and said "There are zero reports of skin damage from the academic studies". (He must not count these forums LOL).

In any case, sunlit, you can see the results from DH's use of the CPs. Go slow on yourself for a mo or so to give it a try.

avalange- I did NOT jump right into the strong CPs. Quite the opposite. I took a very slow approach - esp since I had read a few negatives from some ppl on its use. For my eyes, I started w/ the Super GHK - that's the gentlest CP Skin Bio makes - B4 moving up to Night Eyes (next on the strength list), and then Priemier Night Eyes. For my face, I diluted the CPs in a 1:8 ratio of CP:H2O. I gradually changed that ratio over the course of a couple of mos and never had the uglies at all.

I should detail that a bit - I did see some uglies on my face a few times - it was when I spot treated w/ Super Cop 2X. Until my skin got use to that, I needed to be cautious about its use. AND, I did see some 'uglies' when I moved up in strength on my eyes - but never did w/ the Super GHK (and I never diluted the eye CPs)

free skin care · Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:37 pm

Hi avalange - sorry I hadn't responded in so long (I wasn't getting a notice on this thread)

Dr P's email sounds like a typical response of his from his posting on his forum. He's pretty fond of his products and thinks no wrong of them. He should at least admit there are some (like you) you had bad results. Sorry 'bout that. Glad your skin returned to normal.

BTW - do you remember which product it was you were using at the time? They have a lot now.

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