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Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:51 pm  |
I am a 39 year-old (turning 40 in June) who has fought severe melasma for 10 years now. I've tried the laser and light treatments...to no avail. I'm finally taking the Obagi challenge, and I absolutely dread the redness/peeling. I'm a high school English teacher...and 9th graders can be brutally honest, so I suspect I will hear about my appearance often. Please...dear Lord...let it be worth it!
I do have one question: can I use self-tanner at the same time as the Obagi Nu-Derm in order to hide at least some of what's to come? Thanks!! |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:05 pm |
Nu-Derm greatly speeds up exfoliation, so I seriously doubt you will see much help from a self tanner. You'll just see browner shreds of skin peeling off, lol.
BTW, you might want to consider the Nia24 sunscreen since you can use any brand...the Nia24 Pro-Niacin ingredient helps repair/prevent pigmentation problems, and it will also help with some of the skin barrier issues while using NuDerm. I just finished reading all the clinicals this week, and was pretty impressed.
You can see DianaP's pigmentation improvement pics on page 3 of the following thread:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?p=403209#403209 |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 1:08 pm |
I don't recommend using self-tanner, which usually requires a smooth skin surface for best effect. Have you ever had a sunburn that eventually peeled? The peeling starts in separate areas and then the spots spread outwards, like the ripples from a stone thrown into water. The peeling skin is white (if you are Caucasian, as I am). Self-tanner would give you brown splotches, with little dark brown peelies of skin. Many of us use enzyme exfoliator to control the peelies, but that could leave lighter patches if the rest of the skin is darkened by tanner. It just sounds like a mess...  |
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50+, fair brown/brown, Obagi, L2K, AALS; battling: pigmentation, crepeyness, sag |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:28 pm |
| tessera wrote: |
| I don't recommend using self-tanner, which usually requires a smooth skin surface for best effect. Have you ever had a sunburn that eventually peeled? The peeling starts in separate areas and then the spots spread outwards, like the ripples from a stone thrown into water. The peeling skin is white (if you are Caucasian, as I am). Self-tanner would give you brown splotches, with little dark brown peelies of skin. Many of us use enzyme exfoliator to control the peelies, but that could leave lighter patches if the rest of the skin is darkened by tanner. It just sounds like a mess... |
I totally agree. No self-tanner with Nu Derm. It will not be a pretty look!  |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:26 pm |
| No I don't think self tanner would be good look but I know some people use MMU, which seems to look better than Liquid Make up. HTH Lou |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:38 pm |
What is your skin type? are you sensitive? I am sensitive and I find that Obagi was too harsh for me and it was honestly constant redness. Months later I still have some residual redness and my skin is more sensitive than before. I know those kids can be brutal. You might want to avoid the cleanser, toner, and exfoderm, or use the exfoderm very rarely. you could subsititute with a moisturizing milk cleanser like cetaphil. I use the Nia sunscreen and i love it, but since it is physical i dont know if it would get chalky in the peeling areas- it could. I agree that Niacin is great though. It has so far raelly improved my skin barrier and calmed my skin and sofened it up so much. Vitamin C, according to Dr Baumann, can cause facial redness, and I have experienced this first hand. So you might not want to add that either. I would start with the retin A and the hydroquinone which are the 2 most important ingredients. see how your skin reacts, and use it daily or every second day accordingly. Then, if all goes well, maybe add the exfoderm and/or vitamin C. Exfoderm was a nighmare for me and I found it unnecessary since the retin A exfoliates your skin so much already, and initially thins the first layer of your epidermis causing your skin to be more sensitive to irritants like glycolic acids etc (eventually your skin gets thicker though)... Since I was using the Vitamin C and the exfoderm together, I am not sure which caused me the most grief, but i tend to think it was the exfoderm.
Another, less effective option, but still effective, is Tri-Luma, which has a steroid added. It is basically Retin A, hydroquinone, and a light steroid added. It is supposed to be a good product too, and would have much less redness I am sure. Still, I tend to think that obagi would be more effective though. If you have to, you can add a moisturizer on top, although some will disagree. Basically it comes down to if you are sensitive and prone to redness to begin with (like me) or if your skin can tolerate more, then you might be fine doing it the regular way.
One thing is certain, if you at least use the hydroquinone and Retin A, you WILL get some improvement. Those are the main Obagi ingredients that cause the most change. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:41 pm |
| amonavis wrote: |
| Another, less effective option, but still effective, is Tri-Luma, which has a steroid added. It is basically Retin A, hydroquinone, and a light steroid added. It is supposed to be a good product too, and would have much less redness I am sure. |
I used Triluma for 9 months with no improvement in my pigmentation. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:12 pm |
Darn...no self-tanner, then. My skin type is fair and dry, but I do tan pretty easily. I tried to acclimate my skin a little bit by using the Tretinoin (.05) for the past 3 weeks before I started the whole regimen today. My skin took to the Tretinoin quite well...it never peeled; it just felt tight.
I've never tried mineral makeup. This will look better than liquid foundation during Obagi? Thanks so much for everyone's help! |
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Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:16 pm |
| jadereneabby wrote: |
Darn...no self-tanner, then. My skin type is fair and dry, but I do tan pretty easily. I tried to acclimate my skin a little bit by using the Tretinoin (.05) for the past 3 weeks before I started the whole regimen today. My skin took to the Tretinoin quite well...it never peeled; it just felt tight.
I've never tried mineral makeup. This will look better than liquid foundation during Obagi? Thanks so much for everyone's help! |
That was a smart move to acclimate yourself with the RA prior to starting Nu Derm. Are you using the Obagi sunscreen? If so, that should help with the flakes. At least for me it helped, and it definitely diminished the red face look! Most of your flaking will probably come around your mouth area. You might think of trying a microfiber cloth on your lunch break and then reapply the sunscreen. That should at least get you through the day without too many flakes! |
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Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:53 am |
| Re the brutal 9th graders, I know this is probably carrying coals to Newcastle, as you are much more of an expert on 14 years olds than I, but in my experience, transparency is the best offense/defense. Meaning that as soon as you see visible effects from Obagi (for me, it was turning bright red), you announce to the class that you're undergoing a physician-supervised skin regimen that is going to make your skin healthier and help it recover from unprotected sun exposure(or whatever phrase you can use to make this a medical, rather than purely cosmetic, event)but it's going to look weird in the meantime. As teenagers, they can probably understand skin issues. That way, any whispers or lizard-lady comments can be dealt with up front,out loud and matter-of-factly. They'll be less inclined to mock you if you enlist them and aren't embarrassed. Just my opinion... |
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50+, fair brown/brown, Obagi, L2K, AALS; battling: pigmentation, crepeyness, sag |
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Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:59 pm |
tessera, I completely agree! I have one student who went on Accutane about a month ago, and she is verrrrry self-conscious about it. I'm hoping it will make it a little bit easier for her if the focus is on my scaling instead of hers...and I think talking about the process as I go through it will make them a part of my little experiment!
rileygirl...I am using the Obagi sunscreen and like it so far. I need to find a microfiber cloth, however. I assume it's okay to exfoliate lightly--even when the products are irritating the skin so much? |
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Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:05 pm |
| jadereneabby wrote: |
| I assume it's okay to exfoliate lightly--even when the products are irritating the skin so much? |
You can lightly exfoliate, jadereneabby. You can use a microfiber cloth (again gently), or an enzyme exfoliant, or even the ZO Skin Health exfoliating polish. I suggested the microfiber cloth, as it is easy (just wet the cloth), and if you did that at your lunch time, you could just reapply your sunscreen and you should be able to make it the rest of the school day with no flakes! |
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Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:46 pm |
| Awesome! I'll find a microfiber cloth (I like easy!). I do have one more question. Although I met with an aesthetician to learn about Obagi and plan my course to some degree, I ended up buying everything online because it was so much cheaper. She had never mentioned the Vit. C serum. Is it a good thing to incorporate if my primary goal is to lighten the melasma? |
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Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:24 pm |
| if you haven't start this yet, I would suggest waiting until your Spring/Easter break. It would give your skin a few days to adjust before school. My face was its worst the first 4 days with NuDerm. |
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46 yrs old, I live at the beach and love being out in the sun. |
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Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:10 pm |
| jadereneabby wrote: |
| Awesome! I'll find a microfiber cloth (I like easy!). I do have one more question. Although I met with an aesthetician to learn about Obagi and plan my course to some degree, I ended up buying everything online because it was so much cheaper. She had never mentioned the Vit. C serum. Is it a good thing to incorporate if my primary goal is to lighten the melasma? |
A topical C is great to add in. You can use the Obagi C (which I don't like!), or one of Skinceuticals (C, E, Ferulic or their Phloretin). You would apply the C after the toner, and before the Clear in the morning only. (Just my own opinion, but NCN skincare has the best microfiber cloth. Here is a link to NCN. http://www.ncnproskincare.com)
Chrissie really has a smart suggestion to start on your Spring break. The only thing I would say is that everyone is different and not everyone has the worst problems in 1 week. A lot of people don't start having the flaking, etc, until at least several weeks in! |
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Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:26 pm |
This was actually the end of my Spring Break. I would have started earlier in the week, but I was waiting for the Clear to arrive in the mail. It's okay, though...I can survive being flaky at school. My students already think I'm a dork  !
I'm interested in adding the Skinceuticals C...but wow, there are too many choices! Is one better than the other in complimenting the Obagi? |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:40 pm |
Jadereneabby,
I just wanted to know how the Obagi Nu Derm was going? I started it a week and a half ago, right before our spring break. When I got back today, lots of weird looks. I look as if I have vacationed on the surface of the sun. I can't decide if I am more embarassed by the neon red flare of my face, or the fact that the entire thing is peeling off, leaving me with a pile of skin at my keyboard.
I was not given any vitamin C either with my regimen--I like rileygirl's suggestion, and rileygirl--I read your older posts over and over again, as you have so much good information on this skin care system. My main issue is that my derm. has so many products, and she was really pushing me to get her laser treatments, that they just gave me the box and that was really all--never really told me how to apply, or how much. Maybe with all the redness, I am using too much? Can I at least put a little lotion on during the day at work so I am not as scary?
I might not make it through the next 4 weeks...I really want to put some lotion on the flakes... |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:51 pm |
| elwyatt wrote: |
Jadereneabby,
I just wanted to know how the Obagi Nu Derm was going? I started it a week and a half ago, right before our spring break. When I got back today, lots of weird looks. I look as if I have vacationed on the surface of the sun. I can't decide if I am more embarassed by the neon red flare of my face, or the fact that the entire thing is peeling off, leaving me with a pile of skin at my keyboard.
I was not given any vitamin C either with my regimen--I like rileygirl's suggestion, and rileygirl--I read your older posts over and over again, as you have so much good information on this skin care system. My main issue is that my derm. has so many products, and she was really pushing me to get her laser treatments, that they just gave me the box and that was really all--never really told me how to apply, or how much. Maybe with all the redness, I am using too much? Can I at least put a little lotion on during the day at work so I am not as scary?
I might not make it through the next 4 weeks...I really want to put some lotion on the flakes... |
You really should not use any lotion for the flakes, elwyatt. You have to go through the process. Sometimes it is not pretty, but you will be very pleased with your skin when it is done. I'll post the "regular" Nu Derm instructions and amounts for you.
AM:
Cleanse
Tone
Topical C if you are using one. This would be 4-5 drops applied to your face.
Clear - 1 gram
Exfoderm - 1/2 gram
Sunscreen (general rule is 1/4 tsp for the face)
PM:
Cleanse
Tone
Clear - 1 gram
Blender (1/2 gram) mixed with Retin A (1/2-1 gram)
How to measure: You can use your pinky finger and starting at the tip of your finger going down to the 2nd fold is 1 gram. 1/2 gram is the tip of the finger going down to the 1st fold. Or, you can use the letters OBAGI on the bottle. From the O to the A is 1/2 gram and from the O to the I is 1 gram.
Use a microfiber cloth gently to get rid of the flakes, or a gentle enzyme product, or ZO Skin Health Exfoliating Polish. That will help with the flakes.
I definitely advise following whatever "routine" your derm has put out for you, but what I listed above is the "standard". You can adjust the amounts if you get too flaky and/or red. The Exfoderm is the main thing that is causing the redness, and the Clear, Blender/Retin A is what is causing the flakes. No moisturizer - that defeats the purpose of the program to be honest with you. The goal is to get your skin "turned over" so that it will be healthier and you won't need the moisturizer. You can, however, add in the ZO Growth Factor Serum in the a.m. and p.m. and that will help with the redness. But, be warned, that stuff will burn when first applied!
Stick with it, and you will love your results! Good luck.  |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:51 pm |
elwyatt...today completed day 3 for me, and so far (knock on wood) I've had a really easy go of it. I am a little red, but it only looks like I got some sun over the weekend. The flakes aren't too bad either...again, it just looks like I got too much sun. Of course, I have no doubt that this could and probably will get much worse. It's possible that spending 3 weeks on the Tretinoin before starting the whole program is allowing for an easier entry.
I will say that the only "cheat" I am doing is using the A&D ointment with Zinc verrrrrry lightly on the creases (sides of nose and mouth) because I read on several forums that this is a savior for those areas so they won't crack and bleed. Otherwise, I'm going by-the-book using the standard plan.
No matter what, I will complete the Obagi. I hate this melasma SO much, and I get weird looks from it anyway...so weird looks from a red face are at least temporary! |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:00 pm |
| rileygirl...thanks SO much for all your great advice! I ordered some Vit. C serum to add in. I wonder...is there a way to post pics of progress in this forum? |
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Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:48 pm |
| jadereneabby wrote: |
| rileygirl...thanks SO much for all your great advice! I ordered some Vit. C serum to add in. I wonder...is there a way to post pics of progress in this forum? |
You are most welcome!
To post progress pics, you need to use photobucket or the like, and then you insert the image on the forum here. |
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Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:40 am |
| jadereneabby wrote: |
| No matter what, I will complete the Obagi. I hate this melasma SO much, and I get weird looks from it anyway...so weird looks from a red face are at least temporary! |
Hang in there! Pre-Obagi, I used to feel I couldn't go out of the house without foundation, because my melasma made my face look so odd. Now, I don't even think about it. The melasma isn't all gone (that's an on-going process), but is so minimized that I no longer feel self-conscious about going bare-faced (with sunscreen, of course). I predict you will be thrilled with the results, if you stick with it (and it sounds like you will). |
_________________
50+, fair brown/brown, Obagi, L2K, AALS; battling: pigmentation, crepeyness, sag |
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Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:27 am |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| You can, however, add in the ZO Growth Factor Serum in the a.m. and p.m. and that will help with the redness. But, be warned, that stuff will burn when first applied! |
Rileygirl...thanks again for the advice. I have a sample of the ZO growth factor serum, and I did try a little--when it burned I wiped it off, because I thought it would make the redness worse--I am going to try it tonight, this time I won't wipe it off
Ok, so no moisturizer--I can do this...I hate my melasma and acne spots, what's a little flaky dry skin, right?! |
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Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:05 pm |
| elwyatt wrote: |
| Ok, so no moisturizer--I can do this...I hate my melasma and acne spots, what's a little flaky dry skin, right?! |
You can do it! Good luck! |
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