I hate that some docs poo poo on at home LED's...
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skincare Tools & Do-It-Yourself Skincare

free skin care · Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:29 pm

I hate that some doc's poo poo on at home LED's, when it seems to be improving my skin. It makes me think that I am under some kind of illusion. Just sayin' Sad

free skin care · Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:12 pm

shellybutorac wrote:

I hate that some doc's poo poo on at home LED's, when it seems to be improving my skin. It makes me think that I am under some kind of illusion. Just sayin' Sad

Have you taken before and after photos to confirm what you see? Maybe you could take those to your doc?

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:07 am

How long have you used it Rileygirl?

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:39 am

blueeyes wrote:

How long have you used it Rileygirl?

I used the Prolight for 3 months, blueeyes, and saw nothing. I am seriously thinking about the AALS though, but wouldn't get it until late summer!

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:16 pm

shellybutorac wrote:

I hate that some doc's poo poo on at home LED's, when it seems to be improving my skin. It makes me think that I am under some kind of illusion. Just sayin' Sad

why what are they, the doc's, saying???
i have a red babyQ.

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:03 pm

said that my aals probably wasn't strong enough to do any good.

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:37 pm

I would check out the AALS thread - there's a lot of information there. I have a Prolight and use in conjunction with some actives. Recently I started use with dermarolling. I like it. Also wish I had an AALS (Kassy on The AALS thread adores hers).

I grew up with doctors and dated a few and what I have learned is no matter how good the doc may be in one area, they may be less informed or enlightened in another. Always do your own research, be your own advocate and make judgements based upon many sources (not just one physician). That's why people get second and third opinions. I value the opinions of modern medicine (where would we be without it) but most things are pioneered and tested before the actual outcome is truly known.
I for one do not discount anecdotal evidence when shown to be reputable. I include it with the whole ball of wax and look at the total picture from there.

You really need to know your comfort zone with things and what is meaningful to you in terms of decision-making. Good Luck shelly! ~~Sis

free skin care · Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:50 pm

sister sweets wrote:

I would check out the AALS thread - there's a lot of information there. I have a Prolight and use in conjunction with some actives. Recently I started use with dermarolling. I like it. Also wish I had an AALS (Kassy on The AALS thread adores hers).

I wouldn't go quite so far as 'adoring', but it is the most effective gadget I've ever used, and that covers quite a few or 15.. Embarassed

(Vaculifter is my close 2nd..♥)

As for Drs opinions on any gadgets for home use, I'm not interested personally. They don't know enough about them to make an informed comment. They just prefer to assume that if it isn't a professional model, it must be mediocre at best... It would be sad if a truly nice, effective gadget for home use slips through the cracks, because an uninformed *Dr* says so.

For me, I'm happy to do my own research, so I don't miss out on the next great thing that comes along... (Too bad they're so few and far between.. Sad

) I just love my gadgets, and think that it's great that we can enjoy some really beneficial treatments, in the comfort of our own homes... Love that!

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 5:13 am

I'm not at all surprised that doctors don't like to recommend home-use gadgets. The premise being that they can be misused in untrained hands. Their whole sphere of training is based around methodology and practice that has been rigorously tried and tested and they have a duty of care to pass that knowledge on to their patients. They can't really be expected to recommend something to their patients that has not had sufficient clinical trials and evidence based studies. They would leave themselves open to litigation were they to do so. I'm sure if my doctor knew what I got up to at home with all of my skincare gadgets, he'd roll his eyes in horror!

But I guess the bottom line is - if they're not selling it, they're not going to recommend it. We did have Dr Perricone selling and recommending his LED device - not sure whether he's still doing so though.

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:55 am

shellybutorac wrote:

said that my aals probably wasn't strong enough to do any good.

I think that is the general consensus from the derms. Home units are not as strong as the panels they use in a doctors office. Just like on the AALS thread, you have to be consistent in using it, use it so many days a week at first, and it is a long term process, which does tell me that the doctors are at least partially correct.

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:00 am

rileygirl wrote:

shellybutorac wrote:

said that my aals probably wasn't strong enough to do any good.

I think that is the general consensus from the derms. Home units are not as strong as the panels they use in a doctors office. Just like on the AALS thread, you have to be consistent in using it, use it so many days a week at first, and it is a long term process, which does tell me that the doctors are at least partially correct.

It's the same thing for the huge professional models in the Drs office or spa. You have to go for a specified amount of treatments, and then they recommend a maintenance program... Same thing really. (Except the price in the Derms office would put us in the poor house!) Shock

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 1:39 pm

i have been thinking to buy a LED for a while, but there are several choices, and the more post I read the less I know which one i want to buy...

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:32 pm

The salon/derms devices use the same wavelengths as our home devices there is so much evidence to say these devices work - we might have to have longer exposure times as our home devices don't have as many LEDS but the facts say that these devices do work:

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-151960136.html

PQ

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:57 pm

rileygirl wrote:

shellybutorac wrote:

said that my aals probably wasn't strong enough to do any good.

I think that is the general consensus from the derms. Home units are not as strong as the panels they use in a doctors office. Just like on the AALS thread, you have to be consistent in using it, use it so many days a week at first, and it is a long term process, which does tell me that the doctors are at least partially correct.

Regardless of which device you are using, and current research, the fact of the matter is that these devices have only been used over the last few years. Our grandmothers and mothers didn't use them, so we have no real idea of results after long term usage. We're told that LEDs will increase collagen and elastin - so I'm hoping that I will reap long term benefits. I have never seen any visible short terms results (I never do with anything I use). However, there is no denying that my skin looks a whole lot better than many of my peers who are the same age).

It will be interesting to see how those who are now in their 20s and using LED consistently age, will they have less wrinkles and sagging when they're 60 compared to their friends who didn't use it? Only time will tell.

free skin care · Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:33 pm

Keliu wrote:

rileygirl wrote:

shellybutorac wrote:

said that my aals probably wasn't strong enough to do any good.

I think that is the general consensus from the derms. Home units are not as strong as the panels they use in a doctors office. Just like on the AALS thread, you have to be consistent in using it, use it so many days a week at first, and it is a long term process, which does tell me that the doctors are at least partially correct.

Regardless of which device you are using, and current research, the fact of the matter is that these devices have only been used over the last few years. Our grandmothers and mothers didn't use them, so we have no real idea of results after long term usage. Exactly my point. Everything is subject to anecdotal studies, outcomes measured and the test of time until the theory becomes accepted We're told that LEDs will increase collagen and elastin - so I'm hoping that I will reap long term benefits. I have never seen any visible short terms results (I never do with anything I use). However, there is no denying that my skin looks a whole lot better than many of my peers who are the same age). And Keliu - that tells the story, I'd say. What you are doing is working. I can always tell someone who cares about their skin and is into their life that way. There is a look that exists
It will be interesting to see how those who are now in their 20s and using LED consistently age, will they have less wrinkles and sagging when they're 60 compared to their friends who didn't use it? Only time will tell. Wholeheartedly Agree

free skin care · Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:37 am

Keliu, as usual, I agree completely. We are all in effect guineapigs for the products we are using--by definition, there can't be longitudinal studies for these serums, creams, devices, etc. because they are all too recent. I personally am most comfortable with using products where there is either preliminary refereed science on efficacy or good anecdotal evidence coupled with a plausible scientific mechanism explaining how it works, or both.

LEDs have *some* peer-reviewed research behind them, though mostly not for the anti-aging purposes we tend to be most interested in, and here on EDS you will find considerable anecdotal evidence of efficacy, coupled with reasonable scientific theory about how they might work. (Same is true of dermarolling, for example.) So, though I appreciate that we don't really know about the long term effectiveness of home LEDs, we probably know at least as much as the average doctor.

free skin care · Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:55 pm

llina wrote:

shellybutorac wrote:

I hate that some doc's poo poo on at home LED's, when it seems to be improving my skin. It makes me think that I am under some kind of illusion. Just sayin' Sad

why what are they, the doc's, saying???
i have a red babyQ.

I think shellybutorac is referring to this thread (I posted a link to Dr Schultz's opinions of LEDs). http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=36973

It would be interesting to hear what a UK dermatologist thinks of LEDs. There's not as much of a litigious culture, and I'd presume they're less inclined to generalise and stay on the safe side; which is what I feel Dr Schultz is doing.

free skin care · Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:46 pm

I doubt that doctor skepticism has anything to do with litigiousness--in fact, if that were the case, UK doctors would be the most cautious of all in commenting about LEDs, since British libel law is so extreme in its provisions allowing supposedly defamed businesses sue!

Personally, doctors are usually pretty conservative about jumping onto bandwagons, even those that turn out to be real advances. Here's an example. My dad had a form of leukemia for which a new potentially game-changing drug became available. I'd read all the clinical trial studies on in and was impressed by the science behind it and pushed his oncologist to consider it for him. Surprisingly to me, his doctor pooh poohed it and was quite dismissive. I had to really push to get him to approve it. That was several years ago. Now the drug in question is the accepted, first line drug for that particular leukemia.

free skin care · Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:48 pm

It's often hard to know whose "informed" opinion to side with.

When pressed, I usually tend to look at who has the most to gain from a product pitch or product criticism....follow the money.

BF

free skin care · Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:10 pm

Barefootgirl wrote:

It's often hard to know whose "informed" opinion to side with.

When pressed, I usually tend to look at who has the most to gain from a product pitch or product criticism....follow the money.

BF

BF, whose money are we following here then - the doctors who don't sell the LED's but want you in their office spending money, or the sellers of the LED's?

free skin care · Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:27 am

rileygirl wrote:

Barefootgirl wrote:

It's often hard to know whose "informed" opinion to side with.

When pressed, I usually tend to look at who has the most to gain from a product pitch or product criticism....follow the money.

BF

BF, whose money are we following here then - the doctors who don't sell the LED's but want you in their office spending money, or the sellers of the LED's?

I am interested in the answer also, we have so many that seem to love these gadgets, and not many Doctors recommending home devices! It makes it all quite confusing! I have no opinion either way at this time, I have not used one or had any treatments, just honestly interested! Smile

DM

free skin care · Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:50 pm

None of my doctors have started selling them yet but all of them have commented from one time or another how great my skin looks.
I answer this question on a weekly question as to does it honestly work. I always answer that although I still use my Baby Q bi-weekly and have for several years, I still say results are superficial at best. It does something, whether that is simply helping my products to absorb better or just "plump up my skin". It can also be just my products, general health and/or lifestyle. But it is not a miracle, wrinkle-busting machine that can replace what photofacials and such do for my skin. If so, I would honestly and whole-heartedly recommend it, which I won't.
When I did that article in the New York Times in 2007 I stated my honest opinion (along with the docs) and that has not changed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/fashion/14skin.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1
My derms say that they just haven't seen enough indisputable results as a direct and absolute correlation to the product to pitch them at the cost it would require. I respect that, which is why I can't in good conscience always advise someone to run out and buy one, given the cost factor.
It is a personal choice. I made it and I stubbornly use it in order to justify that choice (and cost).
I don't want my doc/derm/med spa to turn into a Jiffy Lube and recommend things that they are not completely behind. I have to trust that they will recommend something that is proven to help me, especially at the prices they charge these days.
So that being said, I called my derm (personal friend and instigator of trouble) to weigh in on this debate. Her reply was that there is evidence that in the future these LEDS MIGHT provide SOME benefit to skin maintenance, but they were not powerful enough to reverse any aging for which many make claims. It might also be dangerous in the hands of the average consumer in terms of making these devices stronger until further studies can provide actual data by independent studies, not just the companies that produce them. Her final (and personal) take was that there just wasn't enough evidence yet to convince her to sell them . She has used several that were given to her by the reps for a trial basis and was honestly just not impressed, bottom line.
As I have always said, my personal response on the results is that to me it's like the Emperor's New Clothes, yet I still use it. My hubby swears I use it because I feel guilty over the cost rather than let it sit in my closet, therefore justifying my purchase. Yes it's true, go figure.

free skin care · Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:03 pm

AnnieR, thank you very much for such an honest and well thought out answer. I greatly appreciate hearing your opinion on this, as well as what your doctors/friend had to say. I tend to still think that the results are a temporary plumping (not that this is a bad thing if it helps one look better), but I just haven't seen enough to tell me the results are permanent or making a change at a cellular level. Thanks again for weighing in.

free skin care · Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:14 pm

AnnieR,

I want to thank you for your honest and in depth response! It's very helpful to hear your unbiased opinion about this!

Very much appreciated!

DM

free skin care · Thu Feb 04, 2010 1:51 pm

You are so very welcome.
I sat on the sideline reading this thread for a day or two, debating whether to chime in.
There are so many people who have had really good results that sound like have come from these devices that I didn't want to rain on any ones parade. And I do not like engaging in debates on products and techniques here as I have seen it get too far out of hand when someone feels very strongly as to their opinion.
All I can do is post my own HONEST opinion and results (and my derms opinion) and happily defer to those that have their own albeit different results to share. (In other words, I am thread gun shy now).
In the beginning, I really wanted to believe I saw more than what was there (especially since i paid that for it), but it in all honesty looking back I believe had more to do with finding some really great product lines that changed my skin as well. When you are trying new techniques, products and ways of dealing with your skin all at once, you can't help but change it for the better.
But the proof came in the time of using the device according to the specs and that nothing changed beyond that initial "plumping". I wanted and looked for it to be more.
I do honestly believe if it was a device that TRULY showed measurable results, the derms/docs would be on the bandwagon for sure as they do make money off of selling these. My friend sells Clarisonic for an unbelievable mark up in her med/spa, (she should be ashamed) and boy do they push them. In the treatments, facials, cleansing, exams/consults, it's the thing to buy to change your skin. I bought mine on EDS, you can't match the price. Yet, we all have our opinion on those too (some days I too am on the fence on this one)!
So as my friend said, if in fact docs are poo-pooing these devices, it is because the concrete results are just not there, YET. She doesn't naysay when asked, just says she is waiting to see.
Aren't we all?

Automatic Message

If this is your first visit to the EDS Forums please take the time to register. Registration is required for you to post on the forums. Registration will also give you the ability to track messages of interest, send private messages to other users, participate in Gift Certificates draws and enjoy automatic discounts for shopping at our online store. Registration is free and takes just a few seconds to complete.

Click Here to join our community.

If you are already a registered member on the forums, please login to gain full access to the site.