Skinbiology CP Serum
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free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:10 pm

I found this protect unpleasant in its texture, smell and colour. It didn't do anything.

I now buy Copper peptide as a raw material and add to cream. I don't know if it does anything but it is supposed to be backed by scientific research, so I just use it.

The raw material that you buy is actually very clear in colour with a very slight tint of blue. You only need it in very low concentration to aid wound healing. The finished product will NOT be blue. What I now realise is that Skinbiology actually add dye in the product to make it look blue and "potent". Sounds gross, doesn't it.

Awful stuff.

free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:05 pm

Here are the ingredients for SkinBiology CP Serum (from EDS):

Purified water, hydroxyethylcellulose, copper-peptides (hydrolyzed soy protein plus copper chloride), allantoin, polysorbate-20, diazolinydinyl urea, methylparaben, propylparaben, vitamin E TPGS, bronopol

I don't see any dye/pigments on the ingredients list ... how do you know they are added?

I am not sure where you are buying your copper peptide ingredient from, but I don't believe it is the same ingredient used by SkinBiology in their CP Serum.

free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:16 pm

skinactives
Copper Peptide is not that colour

free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:33 pm

If you are buying your copper peptide from SkinActives, then you are buying Copper Peptide (GHK). That is a different ingredient than the one found in CP Serum, namely copper-peptides (hydrolyzed soy protein plus copper chloride).

If SkinBiology is adding a pigmenting ingredient as you say, wouldn't it appear on the ingredients list? Wouldn't we see an FD&C Blue on the list?

free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:50 pm

Here is the literature behind it: (I actually remember the colour being on this list of one of the Skinbiology ingredient labels)

Copper peptides are used at VERY low concentrations. This is Dr. Sivak's write up on them:

The % concentration we recommend is .0017%. The justification for this can be found below (it is written by Dr. Sivak our resident scientist):

In human serum, copper spontaneously binds to glycyl-histidyl-lysine (GHK), a tripeptide complex that has high affinity for the copper (II) anion. This complex has been shown, both in vitro and in vivo, to accelerate wound healing. One study reported that the addition of GHK-copper complex to human fibroblasts induced a specific, concentration-dependent stimulation of collagen synthesis A later study demonstrated a dose-dependent stimulation of glycosaminoglycan synthesis, specifically heparan sulfate and dermatan sulfate, by adding GHK-copper complex to human skin fibroblasts.

Please note that there are several forms of copper used in the skin care market. The most common are copper gluconate, a copper salt, a mixture of soy protein hydrolizate with copper and the coppper tripeptide. These forms are not equivalent and only the copper tripeptide has been shown to aid in wound healing and to stimulate synthesis of dermis macromolecules.

I suggest that the concentration of copper tripeptide in the finished skin care product is about 2 ppm. I chose this concentration on the basis of the scientific literature available. Why 2 ppm and not a higher concentration? The beneficial effects of copper tripeptide does not show a linear relationship with copper tripeptide concentration. As concentration increases, there is an optimum range and then the benefits decrease. There is also the problem of copper stimulating the activity of proteases, enzymes capable of breaking down collagen and elastin.

I am well aware that skin care manufacturers may be using higher concentrations of copper peptide. There are two possible reasons for this. One is that they are not using copper tripeptide but soy protein hydrolizate, and that the concentration they refer to is that of the protein and not the copper. The second reason is that they may not be aware of the possible drawbacks of copper, although many users have reported problems with commercially available copper products.

References:

Maquart, Francois Xavier; Pickart, Loren; Laurent, Maryvonne; Gillery, Philippe; Monboisse, Jean Claude; Borel, Jacques Paul (1988) Stimulation of collagen synthesis in fibroblast cultures by the tripeptide-copper complex glycyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine-copper(2+). FEBS Lett. 238 : 343-6.

Downey, Daniel; Larrabee, Wayne F., Jr.; Voci, Vincent; Pickart, Loren (1985) Acceleration of wound healing using glycyl-histidyl-lysyl copper(II). Surg. Forum: 36 573-5.

May, Peter M.; Whittaker, Jill; Williams, David R. (1983) Copper complexing by growth stimulating tripeptide, glycylhistidyllysine. Inorg. Chim. Acta: 80(1-2), L5-L7.

Wegrowski, Y.; Maquart, F. X.; Borel, J. P (1992) Stimulation of sulfated glycosaminoglycan synthesis by the tripeptide-copper complex glycyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine-Cu2+. Life Sciences, 51: 1049-56.

free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:43 pm

arielstar08 wrote:

Here is the literature behind it: (I actually remember the colour being on this list of one of the Skinbiology ingredient labels)

Copper peptides are used at VERY low concentrations. This is Dr. Sivak's write up on them:

The % concentration we recommend is .0017%. The justification for this can be found below (it is written by Dr. Sivak our resident scientist):

Please note that there are several forms of copper used in the skin care market. The most common are copper gluconate, a copper salt, a mixture of soy protein hydrolizate with copper and the coppper tripeptide. These forms are not equivalent and only the copper tripeptide has been shown to aid in wound healing and to stimulate synthesis of dermis macromolecules.

I suggest that the concentration of copper tripeptide in the finished skin care product is about 2 ppm. I chose this concentration on the basis of the scientific literature available. Why 2 ppm and not a higher concentration? The beneficial effects of copper tripeptide does not show a linear relationship with copper tripeptide concentration. As concentration increases, there is an optimum range and then the benefits decrease. There is also the problem of copper stimulating the activity of proteases, enzymes capable of breaking down collagen and elastin.

I am well aware that skin care manufacturers may be using higher concentrations of copper peptide. There are two possible reasons for this. One is that they are not using copper tripeptide but soy protein hydrolizate, and that the concentration they refer to is that of the protein and not the copper. The second reason is that they may not be aware of the possible drawbacks of copper, although many users have reported problems with commercially available copper products.

References:

Maquart, Francois Xavier; Pickart, Loren; Laurent, Maryvonne; Gillery, Philippe; Monboisse, Jean Claude; Borel, Jacques Paul (1988) Stimulation of collagen synthesis in fibroblast cultures by the tripeptide-copper complex glycyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine-copper(2+). FEBS Lett. 238 : 343-6.

Downey, Daniel; Larrabee, Wayne F., Jr.; Voci, Vincent; Pickart, Loren (1985) Acceleration of wound healing using glycyl-histidyl-lysyl copper(II). Surg. Forum: 36 573-5.

May, Peter M.; Whittaker, Jill; Williams, David R. (1983) Copper complexing by growth stimulating tripeptide, glycylhistidyllysine. Inorg. Chim. Acta: 80(1-2), L5-L7.

Wegrowski, Y.; Maquart, F. X.; Borel, J. P (1992) Stimulation of sulfated glycosaminoglycan synthesis by the tripeptide-copper complex glycyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine-Cu2+. Life Sciences, 51: 1049-56.

I agree with Hanna; they are two different ingredients. They are used at different concentrations; she recommends using her ingredient at .0017%. Could you please specify which product you recall has blue pigment listed on the ingredients list? I don't see it in this serum, assuming the EDS store has the correct ingredients list. TIA

free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 10:49 pm

I use the Skinbiology CP Serum, and it's always been the same dark blue color. Quite a watery serum. (I believe this is the weakest of the CP's.)

Here's the ingredient list from Skinbiology's website for CP Serum;

Purified water, hydroxyethylcellulose, copper-peptides (hydrolyzed soy protein plus copper chloride), glycerin, propylene glycol (and) diazolidinyl urea (and) methylparaben (and) propylparaben, polysorbate-20, allantoin, glycine, cupric chloride, tocophersolan (Vitamin E), fragrance, aloe barbadensis leaf juice (aloe vera) gel.

http://store.reverseskinaging.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=23&Show=ExtInfo

I looked through the ingredients for a couple of their stronger CP products, and didn't see any "coloring" agents either.

I wonder why EDS's ingredient list is short by a few ingredients?

free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:01 pm

Just for the heck of it I checked Nanci's (NCN) site, and here are the ingredients for all the SB CP products she carries; (BTW, this matches what Lacy has found in the EDS store for CP Serum)... I still don't see any coloring agents, and like Lacy, I'd be interested in hearing more about the accusation of "dye being added to make it appear more potent".

COPPER PEPTIDE PRODUCTS:

CP Serum - Purified Water, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Copper-Peptides (Hydrolyzed Soy Protein Plus Copper Chloride), Allantoin, Polysorbate-20, Diazolinydinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, vitamin E TPGS, Bronopol.

Super CP Serum - Purified Water, Copper-Peptides (Hydrolyzed Soy Protein Plus Copper Chloride), Hydroxyethylcellulose, Salicylic Acid, Allantoin, Polysorbate-20, Glycine, Diazolinydinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Vitamin E TPGS, Bronopol.

Super Cop - Purified Water, Aloe Aera Gel, Squalane, Octyl Palmitate, Glycerol Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Copper Peptides (Hydrolyzed Soy Protein And Copper Chloride), Safflower Oil, Cetyl Alcohol, Myristyl Ether Proprionate, Propylene Glycol, Stearic Acid, Olive Oil, Allantoin, Salicylic Acid, Glycine, Polysorbate 20, Diazolinydinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Oil Of Lavender, Retinyl Palmitate, Camphor, Menthol, Mixed (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta) Tocopherols, Mixed (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta) Tocotrienols, Ubiquinone, Bronopol.

Super Cop 2X Extra Strength - Purified Water, Aloe Aera Gel, Squalane, Octyl Palmitate, Copper Peptides (Hydrolyzed Soy Protein And Copper Chloride), Glycerol Stearate, PEG-100 Stearate, Safflower Oil, Cetyl Alcohol, Myristyl Ether Proprionate, Propylene Glycol, Stearic Acid, Olive Oil, Allantoin, Salicylic Acid, Glycine, Polysorbate 20, Diazolinydinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, Oil Of Lavender, Retinyl Palmitate, Camphor, Menthol, Mixed (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta) Tocopherols, Mixed (Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta) Tocotrienols, Ubiquinone, Bronopol.

Super CP Serum - Purified water, copper-peptides (hydrolyzed soy protein plus copper chloride), hydroxyethylcellulose, salicylic acid, allantoin, polysorbate-20, glycine, diazolinydinyl urea, methylparaben, propylparaben, vitamin E TPGS, bronopol.

free skin care · Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:20 pm

The copper in SkinBiology's CP Serum is Copper Chloride. According to Wikipedia, Copper(II) chloride is the chemical compound with the formula CuCl2. This is a light green solid, much like neon green, which slowly absorbs moisture to form a blue-green dihydrate. Copper(II) chloride dissociates in aqueous solution to give the blue color of [Cu(H2O)6]2+ and yellow or red color of the halide complexes of the formula [CuCl2+x]x-. Concentrated solutions of CuCl2 appear green because of the combination of these various chromophores. The color of the dilute solution depends on temperature, being green around 100°C and blue at room temperature.

I don't think any dye is added to make it appear blue in colour. That's just my opinion though.

ncnskinpro.com also lists the ingredients in CP Serum as Purified Water, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Copper-Peptides (Hydrolyzed Soy Protein Plus Copper Chloride), Allantoin, Polysorbate-20, Diazolinydinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, vitamin E TPGS, Bronopol.

Either the formula has changed recently, or there is an error on the SkinBiology website.

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:01 pm

arielstar08 wrote:

I found this protect unpleasant in its texture, smell and colour. It didn't do anything.

I now buy Copper peptide as a raw material and add to cream. I don't know if it does anything but it is supposed to be backed by scientific research, so I just use it.

The raw material that you buy is actually very clear in colour with a very slight tint of blue. You only need it in very low concentration to aid wound healing. The finished product will NOT be blue. What I now realise is that Skinbiology actually add dye in the product to make it look blue and "potent". Sounds gross, doesn't it.

Awful stuff.

arielstar - I doubt the stuff you bought as a raw matierial is the real stuff. SB has a patent on the 2nd generation CP, so I doubt there's anything out there like it yet. The first generation CPs, (GHK-Cu) do have other mfgr's using that technology, as the patenet has expired.

In any case - can I ask how long you used the CP Serum, at what strength (how many drops) and how often? Also - did you use an exfolient? And, what cleanser did you use? Did you incorporate a wait time between any of these steps.

I find that a lot of ppl that claim to have no luck could try a diff method with better success.

free skin care · Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:07 pm

HI foxe,

Thanks for your feedback.

The raw material was copper tripeptide. Please take a look at the literature and explanation from the supplier on my second post.

I used the SB, the exfoliant and the CP serum. I read many reviews saying that the skin will turn bad before good, etc. It didn't happen for me, for better or worse.

I have since stopped acidic peel, I only use Vit A/ retinol.

What about your experience? Are you getting good results from CP?

Thanks Smile

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:21 am

The reason for the different shades of blue is concentration and actual chemistry of the GHK-Cu and the SkinBio CP's is different.

Skin Actives sells GHK-copper which is really more true blue and lighter.

SkinBio's CP serum would be more green-blue and deeper in colour. It's is much more concentrated than the Skin Actives copper active, but is also used at a much higher concentration because it is chemically different, and acts slightly differently than GHK-Cu.

For my own experience, I used the SkinBio CP, and it worked great for me - tightened up my jawline and firmed my skin well. I never got bad skin from it - it's generally accepted now that people who go though "the uglies" are older people with less resilient skin... so the SkinBio CP routine breaks down the existing skin support structure (so skin looks bad) before rebuilding it (looking good again). With younger or younger-acting skins, the CP routine does also break down some of the skin support, but younger skin is more able to cope with this and doesn't go through "the uglies"

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:14 am

What I continue to come back to is that the research I can find in support of CP's regenerative capabilities were done on the original, supposedly weaker, GHK. Sometimes more of or an improved version of something isn't as good..
I cannot speak to the addition of pigment..

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:08 pm

arielstar08 wrote:

HI foxe,

Thanks for your feedback.

The raw material was copper tripeptide. Please take a look at the literature and explanation from the supplier on my second post.

I used the SB, the exfoliant and the CP serum. I read many reviews saying that the skin will turn bad before good, etc. It didn't happen for me, for better or worse.

I have since stopped acidic peel, I only use Vit A/ retinol.

What about your experience? Are you getting good results from CP?

Thanks Smile

arielstar - I don't see a copper tripeptide on the Skin Actives list - but I do see a copper tetrapepetide (Matrixyl 3000). That's a completely differenent product.

I also see a GHK-Cu from Skin Actives, but as maiea mentions, the Skin Actives version would not be as strong as the Skin Bio version.

If this is what you've been using, I am not suprised you have had dismal results.

I personally have had AWESOME results from Skin Biology's CPs. I've tried most of them over the course of the last 2 years. They have improved the elasticity in my skin, (greatly - esp above my eyes), and gotten rid of the rudiness I use to have from using retinoids (a dr had tried to sell me on a laser treatment for my 'rosacea' - which the CPs got rid of. I had no rosacea, just the retinoid redness instead Rolling Eyes

), and tightened up loose skin - esp above my eyes. I guess my eyes had been the worse on my face and that's why I've seen such great improvements there. I use to be able to pinch the skin ther and it would stay pinched for a few seconds. After using the CPs, the skin bounces right back now. The skin also doesn't drag along when I apply eye shadow anymore. I've also seen a lesseneing of my N/LL's and crow's feet.

Personally, I prefer to go with the man who invented the CPs - Dr Pickart of Skin Biology, His CPs are reasonably priced and work really well.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:16 pm

Alien wrote:

What I continue to come back to is that the research I can find in support of CP's regenerative capabilities were done on the original, supposedly weaker, GHK. Sometimes more of or an improved version of something isn't as good..
I cannot speak to the addition of pigment..

I notice that too, alien. I wish SB would put some $$ into studies for the 2nd gen CPs, but they always have the ones on the first gen and say things like "the 2nd generation performs even better". I've taken their word for it and like the 2nd gen - but have actually gone back to the 1st gen on my eyes (that's the one I started with, before moving up to the 2nd gen ones there). I think the move hasn't made much difference. No gain nor any loss. Since it's more expensive than the 2nd gens, I'll probably go back to them. I did gain alot when I first started the CPs on my eyes( and subsequently moved up in strength), so I'm glad moving down in strength didn't do any reversal of what I gained.

free skin care · Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:23 pm

As a side note - EDS sells some of the Skin Bio CPs. Great for those who have some discounts coming!!

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:03 am

Alien wrote:

What I continue to come back to is that the research I can find in support of CP's regenerative capabilities were done on the original, supposedly weaker, GHK. ......

Hi Alien,

I have 2 questions:

Which serum is the first generation of CP?

Also, which one is the mildest? GHK serum or CP serum?

The reason I get confused is that from Skinbiology website, it says GHK serum is milder than CP serum; while in NCN, it says CP serum is the mildest.

http://reverseskinaging.com/productguide.html

http://www.ncnproskincare.com/virtuemart/68.html

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:02 pm

foxe wrote:

As a side note - EDS sells some of the Skin Bio CPs. Great for those who have some discounts coming!!

I'd love your opinion before placing my next 'CP Serum' order. It seems there are variations in the ingredient list regarding the "Skin Biology CP Serums" (for different distributors.) Do you have any idea of why this is, and also do you have a preference for where you purchase?

EDS Store + NCN Pro Skincare:

CP Serum - Purified Water, Hydroxyethylcellulose, Copper-Peptides (Hydrolyzed Soy Protein Plus Copper Chloride), Allantoin, Polysorbate-20, Diazolinydinyl Urea, Methylparaben, Propylparaben, vitamin E TPGS, Bronopol.

Skin Biology website:

CP Serum - Purified water, hydroxyethylcellulose, copper-peptides (hydrolyzed soy protein plus copper chloride), glycerin, propylene glycol (and) diazolidinyl urea (and) methylparaben (and) propylparaben, polysorbate-20, allantoin, glycine, cupric chloride, tocophersolan (Vitamin E), fragrance, aloe barbadensis leaf juice (aloe vera) gel.

From the SB list of ingredients 'bronopol' has been excluded, and 'glycine' and 'aloe juice' have been added.. (These are a plusses IMO, and I'll just leave it at that!)

Am I totally mixed up and looking at two different products, or is this a typical "SB" practice, to keep a slightly different (better IMO) product for their personal distribution? I haven't compared the other Copper Peptide products, but now I'm curious and will have a look when I have a little time.

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:04 pm

Ooh! Ooh! I know this one! LOL! Laughing

OK. GHK is the mildest of all copper peptides & the one used in the studies (first generation). CP Serum is the mildest of the second generation ones. I did notice too that the SB serums have different ingredients on different websites. I don't know why? Maybe the websites that resell their products don't update the ingredient lists when they change? I don't know...

Also, I have been using the PSF Bio-Copper serum for a while now (it's GHK-Cu type). When I first got it in the mail it was a lighter blue than the SB serums, so I thought it was less concentrated. I emailed PSF about the color & this was their reply:

"Dear Heather,
Chad asked that I get back to you in regard to your concern with the color of our Bio-Copper Serum. There seems to be a general misunderstanding about the color of copper peptides and their potency. Many people believe that the darker blue the product is, the more powerful or concentrated the copper peptides are. This is untrue. The depth of color in a copper peptide solution is dependent on many things. It can vary due to raw materials, pH, impurities, and the level of free copper ions present in the solution. Free copper ions are left-over copper ions that did not bind to the peptide to create a complex. So they are copper ions that are not part of a copper peptide complex. Free copper ions are not desirable in a cosmetic product. They can cause irritation & edema in the skin, as well as dryness and what some customers call "the uglies". To alleviate this problem, we remove 99.9% of the free copper ions in our copper peptide solution. In so doing, the color becomes a lighter blue, due to the fact that we are only keeping copper ions that are bound to a peptide chain. Also, GHK-Cu (first generation copper peptides) are not as dark as the soy-copper digest products available (second generation) due to the difference in raw materials.

Some other manufacturers of copper peptides make a big fuss about how "deep blue" their serums are. Why they do this I do not know; marketing tactics I suppose. You can mix copper chloride and water, and bring the pH up with regular household ammonia and achieve a beautiful, rich cobalt blue serum - but not a peptide to be found. And it would be toxic to boot! Certainly not something you would want to be using on your skin, despite the pretty dark blue color. We are more concerned with the integrity of the actual peptides, not the resultant color of our serum. That is why we do not add color enhancers such as lutein, lycopene or azulene. We believe that our copper peptides are some of the best that are currently available. We stand behind our products 100% with a money-back guarantee. If you are unhappy for any reason, please let us know and we will happily issue you a refund. Thank you again for your email and for your inquiry. We are always happy to help.
Regards,
Darren White
President/CEO
Pure Skin Formulations, LLC www.psfskincare.com
"
In another email they told me that the concentration of their serum was over 2% pure GHK-Cu. And I read on the SkinBio forum that their GHK-Cu is around 1% GHK-Cu. So I really don't think that the color does relate to the strength? I don't see how it could considering all the facts? What do y'all think?

summer2004 wrote:

Alien wrote:

What I continue to come back to is that the research I can find in support of CP's regenerative capabilities were done on the original, supposedly weaker, GHK. ......

Hi Alien,

I have 2 questions:

Which serum is the first generation of CP?

Also, which one is the mildest? GHK serum or CP serum?

The reason I get confused is that from Skinbiology website, it says GHK serum is milder than CP serum; while in NCN, it says CP serum is the mildest.

http://reverseskinaging.com/productguide.html

http://www.ncnproskincare.com/virtuemart/68.html

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:01 pm

I used Super CP Serum for 8 months, which I felt was a fair trial. It never harmed my skin or made it sag, but I couldn't tell that it did much otherwise, other than to keep my skin at a certain level with no new sagging or wrinkles. I recently began using the new Skin Signals from Skin Biology over Exfol Serum and I am in love!!!! And both the Super CP and Skin Signals serums are second-generation serums.

Within two weeks of using the Skin Signals, I could tell such a difference in my skin. It's tighter, firmer, finer. Keep in mind that I have been rolling with short-needled dermarollers during this time, but many days I use only the SkinSignals over Exfol Serum or on its own, without rolling. When rolling, I wait about 30 minutes to apply the Skin Signals. During the day, I apply sunscreen over S/S. At night I apply emu oil. I really love this product and can't wait to see what continued use brings. I'm very careful to keep my skin exfoliated as well.

For anyone who would like to try the Skin Signals, dilute it with a few drops of water at first, just as you should most of the copper serums. I now use it full-strength and it's really something. I'll update in a few weeks. ~ JJ

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:25 pm

jjbeacham wrote:

I used Super CP Serum for 8 months, which I felt was a fair trial. It never harmed my skin or made it sag, but I couldn't tell that it did much otherwise, other than to keep my skin at a certain level with no new sagging or wrinkles. I recently began using the new Skin Signals from Skin Biology over Exfol Serum and I am in love!!!! And both the Super CP and Skin Signals serums are second-generation serums.

jjbeacham - the new Skin Signals is a good mix of the CPs and some added collegen and elastin. another researcher (friend) of Dr Pickarts happened to discover a way of breaking those 2 ing. down to make them better at penetrating the skin. Apparantely it's a good 1-2 punch. I just got done w/ a sample of it and liked it, but I had already been using the Super CP serum, so I don't think it was much different for me. It's a ramped up version of the regular CP serum. Also, keep in mind for those who want to try this first (before any weaker CPs) - it's just as strong as the CP serum (in % of CP) and needs to be approached slowly. Glad to hear your're liking it.

BTW - all CPs beside the Super GHK are 2nd gens at Skin Bio.

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:31 pm

Kassy - I'm not sure why there are different ingredients listed for the same products at different venders, but I do believe I 've seen comments from Dr Pickart on his forum about them 'reformulating' some of the CPs every now and then as ppl have written asking whey the product is diff than the one they had earlier. They seem to continue to 'tweek' the formulas, trying to take as much out of them as possible that isn't neccessary. Perhaps the ones offered by EDS and NCN are older ones - not changed up by the mgf? (Or consistent ones not changed up??). I'd ask Nanci about that one.

I don't think it matters where you buy yours. I buy mine from Skin Bio because I like their free sample program. I've managed to try most all of their CPs that way, so if you need to know anything about them, ask away.

HTH - foxe

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:53 pm

doodebug - how do you like the PSF product? Have you ever tried the Skin Bio one?

I know that Nuetrogen and Procyte (Osmotics, and a few other brands) have the GHK in them, but Im not sure about the PSF one. I say this because Dr P commented on the PSF one once by saying:

Quote:

The ProCyte product is actually GHK-Cu.

I could not figure out what PSF was using. You could ask them. Many companies just mix up some peptides and copper and say it works but even some types of copper peptides can damage skin. So ask them about published studies on their products. Make certain they are published in journals because internal company studies are not trustworthy

Let us know how you like it - K? I'm curious if this is actually a good product or not. (even if it has the real stuff in it or not). It's good they offer a money back guarantee. AS you can see from the quote - Dr P is big on 'published studies'.

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:36 pm

foxe wrote:

doodebug - how do you like the PSF product? Have you ever tried the Skin Bio one?

I know that Nuetrogen and Procyte (Osmotics, and a few other brands) have the GHK in them, but Im not sure about the PSF one. I say this because Dr P commented on the PSF one once by saying:

Quote:

The ProCyte product is actually GHK-Cu.

I could not figure out what PSF was using. You could ask them. Many companies just mix up some peptides and copper and say it works but even some types of copper peptides can damage skin. So ask them about published studies on their products. Make certain they are published in journals because internal company studies are not trustworthy

Let us know how you like it - K? I'm curious if this is actually a good product or not. (even if it has the real stuff in it or not). It's good they offer a money back guarantee. AS you can see from the quote - Dr P is big on 'published studies'.

Hi Foxe. Could you provide me with some links to the published studies on the second generation copper peptides? Since Dr Pickart is so in favour of published studies, I am assuming that some have been done and published on his own second generation products? I am aware of the GHK-Cu studies. TIA

free skin care · Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:29 pm

I am so grateful for all your feedbacks!

maiea: I did have the full range of Skinbio, inc the Copper Peptide Serum. But didn't see much results and really disliked the texture/ smell, esp the Day Cover!!! So I thought to experiment and made my own using Skinactives.

Doodlebug: Thank you for posting the reply from PSF... 2% sound great and I rather it "not so blue" and hopefully more pleasant on the skin than the SB one. Did you buy and try it. What do you think?

I currently have some redness that I persist with Retinol. I hope that the PSF 2% will fix it.

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