Leaf & Rusher / Dermaroller review
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Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:54 am

I started using a few of the products from the Leaf & Rusher line -- and I'm really pleasantly surprised!

There aren't that many ingredients in each product -- which is unusual, as creams these days are packed with everything but the kitchen sink -- most ingredients of which are non-active, but make the product look and feel more effective -- like lots of botanical extracts, etc.... but researching more into this line, I've found it has the highest yeast and marine algae concentrations of almost any product, and has a retinol my sensitive skin can handle! The formulation is also supposed to deliver the ingredients in a form that is maximal for absorbtion. It has other good things in it, like Vitamin C and licorice.

Am using the Skin Tonic, Active Serum for Sensitive Skin, and TX Eyes. I still continue to use my regular moisturisers, other treatments, etc... but since starting to use these products my skin is noticably firmer and plumped up! When I don't use them I see a difference.

I also love the Dermaroller -- am working on repairing sun damaged skin in the decollete area that I've ignored for years -- suddenly looks really aged. Anyhow -- I avoid using the dermaroller around my nose and cheeks, as that area is sensitive. But I can use it on the sides of my face, forehead, around the lips, neck, chest, etc... It doesn't hurt at all, and I'm excited seeing results in the future.

The TX Lips is a nice mild lip exfoliator/moisturiser, but not worth $20.

Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:25 pm

but can I ask, what age range you are in, do you really see a difference. What exactly is the dermaroller???

free skin care · Wed Oct 19, 2005 9:15 pm

I have used Leaf and Rusher on and off in the past few years and love it!! Their secret is in the serum it has a combination of 5% Vitamin C and Vitamin A(retinol). The sensitive skin has 2 % of this combo.

I havent tried the dermaroller and really dont need the gadget.

Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:04 pm

or lines around eyes, do you have any??

free skin care · Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:54 am

so, do you really use the dermaroller? it looks sort of midevil considering it is a roller with little pins on it. Does it hurt?

Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:36 am

I'm 44, definitly seeing damage surface from my years of sunning in California when I was a kid. I have to admit, I haven't been keeping up with using my dermaroller as much as I should -- but it does work nicely.

free skin care · Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:43 am

I love my Dermaroller! There is definitely a "breaking in" period for sensitive skin, but I eventually worked my way up to using it 2 times a day with no problem.

Q for the original poster: do use your Dermaroller once a day...twice a day? Also, do you use it with non-Leaf & Rusher products, and if so, do you roll before or after application of products?

free skin care · Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:01 pm

I'm looking for more feedback on Leaf & Rush products? Especially - are there any more people using the Active Serum or the Eye Treatment?

free skin care · Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:42 pm

bump - again

free skin care · Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:26 am

They have a travel kit in which you can find almost everything, gives you a good idea how their products are. I'd like to try their SPF30 as well but it's been out of stock for quite some time. Hope to get it soon.

free skin care · Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:33 am

I got both the Active Serum and the Eye Treatment from the same person I got the dermaroller from. I went away for a while and will begin using again -- only was able to use for 2 days before going away and having a limited "beauty routine". But I must say that the Eye Treatment is quite nice and not irritating to my eyes at all.

And the dermaroller is not the torture device it looks to be. The pins are really quite tiny and don't go too deep (on the regular commercial model). Yes, my face got a little red after using but it went away quickly. I definitely think I would need a longer depth for the body - Beauty Mouse.

Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:29 pm

Any more girls tried the dermaroller and get good results?

free skin care · Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:04 am

I have it and definitely notice a difference -- especially on my arms (!) I got the 1.5 mm and it is too long/deep for my forehead, and I admit it always brings tears to my eyes when I use it on my face, any part of it. I don't press at all -- I got the long needles thinking I could always go gentler, but this will never work on my neck or chest. I might have to get another one for those areas.

I'm sure it works for some and not others. Just like certain vitamins, actives, antidepressants, and men. . . .

free skin care · Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:47 am

I should add here, perhaps, that I know Dr. Norman Leaf as a cosmetic surgeon and he is top-notch, as well as being a very smart, ethical, respectable guy. I would never have tried the dermaroller, but the fact that Leaf & Rusher offer one made me do a complete about-face, and I got one without hesitation. Dr. Leaf would not be involved in anything that wasn't researched and superior. He truly wants to do good.

free skin care · Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:02 am

Has anyone had permanent red pinprick marks from the dermaroller?

free skin care · Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:39 am

I just noticed this morning the EDS is carrying Leaf & Rusher. I wonder if they will add the Derma Roller? Over the past year I have read most of the threads about this gadget. Just might have to give it a try....short needles of course. Laughing

free skin care · Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:53 am

<<Has anyone had permanent red pinprick marks from the dermaroller?

I don't believe this is possible. If you prick your finger with a pin, does it leave a scar?

Diabetics puncture themselves regularly with a lancet to check their blood glucose levels. These don't leave permanent marks.

The needles are not THAT long or wide. I've never even bled and think THAT would signal much too aggressive an approach.

It's no big deal. I have very sensitive skin and I can definitely feel it -- but my face and scalp both have extra nerve endings, I think. I used to wail in pain while my mother combed tangles out of my hair. I'm verrrry tender-headed. (And tender-hearted, but that's a whole other thread.)

The dermaroller sensation may lessen if I press harder, as noted above. I'm going to try it.

free skin care · Fri Apr 04, 2008 11:53 am

I have had mine for maybe 2 months and I still cant believe that anyone could use longer needles than the original derma roller. Because i have other skin gadgets- I dont use it everyday. But Ive used it at least 20times and my skin still gets red and feels like its burning. Im assuming thats not a bad thing. As of seeing any results - I cant really tell because of the fact that im doing other things to my skin.

free skin care · Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:12 pm

Sidda wrote:

I should add here, perhaps, that I know Dr. Norman Leaf as a cosmetic surgeon and he is top-notch, as well as being a very smart, ethical, respectable guy. I would never have tried the dermaroller, but the fact that Leaf & Rusher offer one made me do a complete about-face, and I got one without hesitation. Dr. Leaf would not be involved in anything that wasn't researched and superior. He truly wants to do good.

Sidda - Did you buy your 1.5 mm roller from L&R? I've never seen one that long sold by them before.

free skin care · Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:55 pm

AnnieR wrote:

Has anyone had permanent red pinprick marks from the dermaroller?

No, I haven't had this experience or known (or heard) of anyone else with this problem either. I think a bit more background info is needed to understand why this might be happening.

Annie, if you don't mind, can you answer the following questions as a means of trying to determine what is happening with your skin (and if the roller is the cause).

1) What brand of roller are you using and what is the size (length of needles) and diameter of the needles?
2) When did you start to roll?
3) How many times a week do you roll?
4) What 'pattern' of rolling are you using (ie/ a star formation or strictly up/down, then left/right).
5) Are you lifting the roller when you roll a new area or when you change directions? If you do not lift the roller each time you move to a new patch of skin when you are rolling left or right or side to side or diagonally, it's possible you are re-rolling a lot of existing pinpricks, instead of creating new pinpricks, and this can 'enlarge' the size of the holes that you keep penetrating (and these holes will not only looked bruised, but they will take longer to heal).
6) How many passes (or rolls) are you performing on each area? Do you roll up and down 5 times, 10 times, etc., before you move to the next patch of skin?
7) How would you classify your skin barrier; fragile, thin, dry, damaged, other?
8 ) Have you had broken capillaries in the past? If so, where were they located?
9) Where are the broken caps from the derma rolling located?
10) When did they develop - after one rolling session or many sessions?
11) Do you use any kind of active or topical or CP shortly before or after you roll your skin? Or applied anything within 1-2 hours of rolling? If so, what kind of products have you been using pre and post rolling?
12) Are you using any kind of beauty tool after a rolling session (ie/ BabyQ, etc).
13) Are you using retin-a right now?
14) Lastly, when you say you have 'permanent' red pinpricks, how long have you had the marks since your last rolling session?

Sorry for the long list of questions, but there are all sorts of possibilities as to why your skin is reacting the way it is and without the additional info, it's too difficult to narrow things down.

Sat Apr 05, 2008 4:07 pm

I've tried Tx Lips and Rapid Resurface.

I agreed that Tx Lips is not worth $20. It smells nice, and a little goes a long way. But I don't see any difference on my lips. I'll not buy it agian.

Rapid Resurface is exceptional dermabrasion product! I love it! It's very gentle, but effectively exfoliates rough cells.

free skin care · Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:51 am

ScotsLass-sorry, didn't mean to mislead but I haven't had any myself, but with fragile skin I thought I would ask (asked also on the dermaroller thread). I've been rolling about a month once a week very lightly with a 1.5 and it's been great, no problems, but I hear of people that push harder and have bruising so I was just curious. Since I can have a red mark left from an acne scar I thought it might be worth checking into. I don't use topicals directly after, just a bit of Active Serum with hydracool in about an hour and it does soak in nicely. I have followed the crisscross pattern on my Leaf and Rusher directions so it's going well, no blood or even peeling.
My caps have always been there, but I just had an IPL and didn't want to make any more permanent marks. Thanks for the help.

free skin care · Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:38 pm

I've been posting on the other Roller thread I started it actually several months before I bought one (now have 2 1.5mm). I couldn't be happier. My hands look great (I've greatly reduced a scar on my arm and seen a real reduction in "age" spots). It doesn't hurt, some areas get red but look great the next day. I never bleed but sometimes get a red spot or 2 (gone the next day). This is definately one of the best things I've ever tried. I suggest anyone thinking of rolling look at the other thread as there are many experiences described there.

My neck is more sensitive than my face but I have improved the skin texture (it was beginning to look like chicken skin). The other thread had a nice article with skin biopsies showing improvement in the thickness of both top layers.

free skin care · Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:54 pm

AnnieR wrote:

ScotsLass-sorry, didn't mean to mislead but I haven't had any myself, but with fragile skin I thought I would ask (asked also on the dermaroller thread). I've been rolling about a month once a week very lightly with a 1.5 and it's been great, no problems, but I hear of people that push harder and have bruising so I was just curious. Since I can have a red mark left from an acne scar I thought it might be worth checking into. I don't use topicals directly after, just a bit of Active Serum with hydracool in about an hour and it does soak in nicely. I have followed the crisscross pattern on my Leaf and Rusher directions so it's going well, no blood or even peeling.
My caps have always been there, but I just had an IPL and didn't want to make any more permanent marks. Thanks for the help.

Hey Annie - Glad to hear that you were asking a question out of curiosity and not because you experienced anything adverse with your own roller. Smile

Bruising happens as a result of blood rupturing beneath the skin from an intensive rolling session (meaning more pressure was applied and for a longer period of time). Pinpricks of blood will not cause bruising, unlike oozing area's of blood, so as long as you continue to roll the same way you've been doing, you shouldn't bruise at all. If anyone finds they have areas of their skin that oozes with blood they really ought to use an antiseptic immediately after a treatment, as infection is a legitimate concern and should be taken seriously.

Generally speaking, bruising will not happen if you are using the smaller rollers such as 0.5 mm, 0.75 mm and 1.0 mm, as they do not target the deeper skin layers and instead create 'channels' in the upper layers of your skin that allow topicals to penetrate further. The shorter needle sizes can also be used more than once a week as they are not able to damage new collagen formation the same way that the longer needles can.

The longer needles break down old damaged collagen strands and this abrasion, or minor injury in the dermis, induces the production of fresh new collagen. If you repeatedly roll your skin with the longer rollers (1.5 mm and up) more than once a week, you are effectively breaking down the new collagen before it has time to properly re-stimluate. In other words, you are mowing down the new collagen during the time frame that it requires to start 'building' again. This is why you'll find many articles or documents about dermarolling that suggest you roll with the longer rollers once a week for 6 weeks then STOP rolling entirely for a period of 12 weeks. It then takes at least 90 days of no rolling for your skin to fully regenerate. So you will not know the real results of this 6 week session until that time.

In the meantime, while you are waiting to see the FULL results of your 6 week cycle with the 1.5 mm roller, you can still use the smaller rollers 2 to 3 times a week as a means of helping your topicals & actives penetrate deeper. I've actually married the two protocols together and use a smaller roller for product penetration Monday's and Wednesday's before bed with my serums, and the 1.5 mm roller on Friday's for my weekly intensive session. Once my 6 week cycle with the larger roller is done, I will continue to use the smaller roller at least twice a week at night before I apply my evening products. The reason I do this at night verus the day is because collagen production is higher while you're sleeping.

FYI to those using Skinbiology's Copper Peptide serums. CP's are not to be used directly on any kind of open wound; and area's with oozing blood classify as such. For this reason, CP's should NEVER be used immediately after a rolling session if your skin is OOZING at all as the CP's can inadvertently trigger the formation of *scar collagen*. If your skin is not oozing, you can safely apply a copper peptide product. It is advised by Skinbio that you start with a milder CP and dilute it with water if you intend to use it right after a rolling session as the product is being delivered significantly deeper into your skin and this can cause a great deal of inflammation and/or a sensation of burning and itching. IF your skin does become super inflamed after you've applied a CP right after you've rolled, and the inflammation does not subside, rinse it with water repeatedly and then use Emu oil alone until the next day.

free skin care · Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:27 pm

Wow, Winnie, thanks for pointing out that EDS carries Leaf & Rusher now!!!!

I'm still using Leaf & Rusher products. I noticed that the Day Tx is very soothing as I had over exfoliated my skin and the Tx cream took the red right out and got rid of the "sunburn" feeling my skin had.

I agree that the Leaf & Rusher lip Tx is not worth the money. Luckily, I got it for less on Ebay but I won't repurchase it. I think it has sugar in it to exfoliate. You can do that on your own with cheaper products or just using a toothbrush on your lips or microdermabrasion cloth or sponge.

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