Is Tretinoin (Retin-A, Renova, etc) unsafe?
EDS Skin Care Forums Forum Index » Skin Care and Makeup Forum

Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:05 pm

I posted this on another message board and thought I would post it here to see if anyone else has heard of this:

I have been having lung problems over the last few month and have been reviewing medications I take. I have been using Retin-A for 19 years and in my research, I can across the following article that says:

Topical Tretinoin, Lung Cancer, and Lung-Related Mortality
Kenneth A. Katz, MD, MSc, MSCE

Amid continuing controversies over drug safety,1-2 results of a trial of topical tretinoin—a commonly used medication for acne3 and skin wrinkles, hyperpigmentation, and roughness4—raise serious concerns for the public health. The Veterans Affairs Topical Tretinoin Chemoprevention (VATTC) trial5-6 was a vehicle-controlled randomized controlled trial (RCT) that studied whether topical tretinoin, 0.1%, cream applied to the face and ears could prevent nonmelanoma skin cancer. As reported in an abstract published in 2005,6 the study observed 1131 subjects for at least 2 years. After 6 years, and about 6 months prior to the study's scheduled conclusion, a safety monitoring committee stopped the study because of excess mortality among subjects who applied tretinoin (n = 82 deaths [14%]) compared with those who applied vehicle (n = 53 [9%]) (P = .01). Differences in mortality from pulmonary disease (12 vs 4) and non–small cell lung cancer (NSCLC) (11 vs 4) were . . . [Full Text of this Article]

I was not able to link to the article as I am a new poster.

I can't list the whole article, as I had to pay to view it, so I feel the website owns the rights. It does say the doctor doesn't feel the risks to the lungs are worth any benefits of tretinoins and issues a warning. Has anyone else heard anything like this? I love my Retin-A

free skin care · Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:28 pm

I never heard that, but the thing about those studies is they always seem to ignore other factors such as, in this case, did one group happen to smoke more? Do they address that?

There are lots of studies where when two things happen, a causal relationship is assumed. I think that's bad science. There are so many factors that can influence the outcome of a study, they ALL have to be taken into account.

SO much hoopla on the internet is created based on studies that suggest a causal relationship solely based on the fact that something occurs during or after the study. That's not enough to create that relationship.

Having said that, I did not read the article in it's entirety. I am just speaking in general terms, so sorry about my rant. Laughing

Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:43 pm

No, no, there is no need to apologize! That's why I posted this so we could examine what we think of this. Dr. Katz is a noted dermatologist (I did some research on him) who is well published.

I really want to continue to use the Retin-A. It's basically a decision I'm going to have to make. A lot of it depends on whether or not I feel Retin-A is absorbed into the blood stream or not.

Thanks for the reply!

free skin care · Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:31 pm

It's hard to judge this study, since the article is only 2 pages long--no real information about data collection methodology, regression analysis of risk factors, and so forth. Hopefully a fuller version of this study will come out so that we can assess the reliability of the correlation.

For what it's worth, on the NIH website of clinical trials for cancer treatments, there's a Phase 2 trial currently recruiting Stage III and IV patients with non small cell lung cancer for a combination chemotherapy containing, among other agents, tretinoin. In the announcement of the Phase 2 trials, the researchers noted that tretinoin has been observed to make cancer cells behave more like non-cancerous cells, which is why they are investigating its use as an anti-cancer drug (in combination with other chemotherapy agents) for lung cancer.

So...either it causes or cures lung cancer. Or, more to the point, there really isn't much evidence yet either way.

free skin care · Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:46 pm

sahmisme wrote:

There are lots of studies where when two things happen, a causal relationship is assumed. I think that's bad science. There are so many factors that can influence the outcome of a study, they ALL have to be taken into account.

SO much hoopla on the internet is created based on studies that suggest a causal relationship solely based on the fact that something occurs during or after the study. That's not enough to create that relationship.

Having said that, I did not read the article in it's entirety. I am just speaking in general terms, so sorry about my rant. Laughing

I have to agree with Sahmisme on this too... There are a lot of studies which purport to show a *direct* link between one factor and another - but, given that human beings are far more complex - and lead greatly differing lives - it's hard to connect one single thing to another - unless there are numerous independent studies over time which show the same thing. Lots of studies out now - show one causal relationship (i.e. pink spandex leads to excessive eyeshadow usage) - and then other studies show the exact opposite (it's too much eyeshadow that leads to a craving for pink spandex!) It can drive you crazy if you believe each individual study.

Without a compilation of long term data - over a number of studies - I don't think you should be too worried just yet... Still, it's good to be aware of what studies are being done - and be a conscious consumer. Smile

free skin care · Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:02 pm

sahmisme wrote:

I never heard that, but the thing about those studies is they always seem to ignore other factors such as, in this case, did one group happen to smoke more? Do they address that?

The study by Dr Katz is a vehicle controlled randomized study, so that factors like smoking etc won't play a role. This is what characterizes published, scientific studies.

volmel -

thank you for posting the study. I have never heard that topical application of Retin-A is tied to lung problems, but I have experienced a very unpleasant side effect of tretinoin cream myself. I started using it this summer, and two months later my hair and eyebrow hairs changed texture and started to fall off. I lost up to eight hairs from each eyebrow every day.

I stopped using the cream six weeks ago, and now my hair and eyebrows are almost back to normal. So yes, the cream certainly enters the blood stream. Unnecessary to say, I won't use the cream again. That said, I believe hair loss is a rare side-effect from topical tretinoin.

On a general note, I tend to think that FDA-approved drugs are safe and that possible side effects are listed on the package. However, hair loss is not listed as a side-effect of topical retinoids (only the oral retinoid Accutane), and I am now 100 % sure that the hair loss I experienced was due to tretinoin. I also found one scientific study backing this theory.

I guess that we cannot blindly trust that all side-effects from drugs and medications are acknowledged and published. Confused

Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:27 pm

My breathing problems started this summer after 19 years of Retin-A use. Some of the research stated that oral tretinoin has been used in neonatal units to quickly develop preemies' lungs. This is what has happened to my lungs in a way. They are hyperextended (not correct, but sort of the idea - I don't have my report in front of me) and I have developed severe asthma. I have discovered that Retin-A does enter the bloodstream somewhat (it has appeared in the breast milk of nursing mothers). So is the REtin-A causing my lung problems? Who knows. Maybe it would have happened anyway.

I do know that when I am off the Retin-A, my lungs get better. When I go back on it, after one week, the problems start to return, even with the inhalers the doctors have me on.

Obagi has long kept me looking younger. This has been a shock to me. I have never had lung problems. I've ordered the Obagi C RX, to see how I like that it. I'm even getting somewhat afraid of using even over the counter Vit. A.

I wish I felt comfortable posting the whole article that I paid to see. I have contacted Dr. Katz to ask him if he would allow it, but have not heard back from him.

free skin care · Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:56 pm

Is Retin A the same as Retinol?? Confused

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:58 am

Retinol is a natural form of vitamin A, while Retin-A and Renova are based on retinoic acid, a synthetic derivative of vitamin A, which is prescription only and considered a pharmaceutical (hence usually is available only on prescription).

Stardustdy wrote:

Is Retin A the same as Retinol?? Confused

Wed Nov 05, 2008 7:42 am

flitcraft wrote:

It's hard to judge this study, since the article is only 2 pages long--no real information about data collection methodology, regression analysis of risk factors, and so forth. Hopefully a fuller version of this study will come out so that we can assess the reliability of the correlation.

For what it's worth, on the NIH website of clinical trials for cancer treatments, there's a Phase 2 trial currently recruiting Stage III and IV patients with non small cell lung cancer for a combination chemotherapy containing, among other agents, tretinoin. In the announcement of the Phase 2 trials, the researchers noted that tretinoin has been observed to make cancer cells behave more like non-cancerous cells, which is why they are investigating its use as an anti-cancer drug (in combination with other chemotherapy agents) for lung cancer.

So...either it causes or cures lung cancer. Or, more to the point, there really isn't much evidence yet either way.

Dr. Katz does address this:

"A causal link between tretinoin and mortality due to lung cancer or other lung diseases is consistent with previous RCT data. Specifically, the Alpha-Tocopherol, Beta Carotene Cancer Prevention Trial7 and the Beta-Carotene and Retinol Efficacy Trial8 both linked vitamin A–related compounds to lung cancer. Ironically, both trials were intended to demonstrate that these compounds could prevent lung cancer. In both studies, however, lung cancer rates in subjects taking vitamin A–related substances were, unexpectedly, significantly higher than in subjects taking placebo, leading to early discontinuation of the vitamin A–related interventions in both trials."

Again, I'm quoting from the full article published that I cited above. So who knows.

He also says that a link between tretinoin and lung-related mortality is biologically plausible, with the putative culprit not tretinoin itself but harmful tretinoin metabolites. This line of association begins with the finding that topically applied tretinoin can be absorbed systemically and therefore can reach lung tissue. Once inside cells, tretinoin can induce its own metabolism; continuous dosing with tretinoin may lead not to higher levels of tretinoin but to higher levels of tretinoin metabolites. It is those tretinoin metabolites that may injure lung tissue, particularly in the presence of cigarette smoke.

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:45 am

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Retinol is a natural form of vitamin A, while Retin-A and Renova are based on retinoic acid, a synthetic derivative of vitamin A, which is prescription only and considered a pharmaceutical (hence usually is available only on prescription).

Stardustdy wrote:

Is Retin A the same as Retinol?? Confused

So basically applying any form of Vit A to the skin is gonna cause lung damage in the long run as stated by the other members?? Confused

free skin care · Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:26 am

Stardustdy wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Retinol is a natural form of vitamin A, while Retin-A and Renova are based on retinoic acid, a synthetic derivative of vitamin A, which is prescription only and considered a pharmaceutical (hence usually is available only on prescription).

Stardustdy wrote:

Is Retin A the same as Retinol?? Confused

So basically applying any form of Vit A to the skin is gonna cause lung damage in the long run as stated by the other members?? Confused

that`s what I`l like to know too! Shock

is retinol/retinaldehyde also unsafe???

Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:35 pm

Aiva wrote:

Stardustdy wrote:

SeanySeanUK wrote:

Retinol is a natural form of vitamin A, while Retin-A and Renova are based on retinoic acid, a synthetic derivative of vitamin A, which is prescription only and considered a pharmaceutical (hence usually is available only on prescription).

Stardustdy wrote:

Is Retin A the same as Retinol?? Confused

So basically applying any form of Vit A to the skin is gonna cause lung damage in the long run as stated by the other members?? Confused

that`s what I`l like to know too! Shock

is retinol/retinaldehyde also unsafe???

We still don't know if pure Retin-A does cause lung problems. There may not be anything to it at all. This is just one dermatologist's conclusions. I really don't know if that would include any form of Vitamin A. He ends his article by saying "It is not clear whether tretinoin caused the excess lung-related deaths in the VATTC trial. But concern is warranted, certainly, both because a causal link is plausible and because topical tretinoin is indicated for the treatment of relatively minor conditions."

So we all have to think about what is best for us individually. It could be that my lung problems had absolutely nothing to do with my long-term Retin-A use. In fact, that probably is the case. It was probably my cats more than anything. It's just something I want to watch. I'm off the Retin-A for now and will get my lung capacity as close to 100 percent as possible and then try one more experiment with the Retin-A

Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:07 pm

Septembergirl wrote:

sahmisme wrote:

I never heard that, but the thing about those studies is they always seem to ignore other factors such as, in this case, did one group happen to smoke more? Do they address that?

The study by Dr Katz is a vehicle controlled randomized study, so that factors like smoking etc won't play a role. This is what characterizes published, scientific studies.

volmel -

thank you for posting the study. I have never heard that topical application of Retin-A is tied to lung problems, but I have experienced a very unpleasant side effect of tretinoin cream myself. I started using it this summer, and two months later my hair and eyebrow hairs changed texture and started to fall off. I lost up to eight hairs from each eyebrow every day.

I stopped using the cream six weeks ago, and now my hair and eyebrows are almost back to normal. So yes, the cream certainly enters the blood stream. Unnecessary to say, I won't use the cream again. That said, I believe hair loss is a rare side-effect from topical tretinoin.

On a general note, I tend to think that FDA-approved drugs are safe and that possible side effects are listed on the package. However, hair loss is not listed as a side-effect of topical retinoids (only the oral retinoid Accutane), and I am now 100 % sure that the hair loss I experienced was due to tretinoin. I also found one scientific study backing this theory.

I guess that we cannot blindly trust that all side-effects from drugs and medications are acknowledged and published. Confused

September Girl, I am very interested in what you are using now for wrinkle control since the
Retin-A caused you to have those problems. How horrible! I feel like I'm in such a dilemma. I'm 53 and the Obagi kept my skin looking great. Where do I go from here? Do you have any suggestions? What do people use that absolutely cannon use Retin A

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:46 am

Did the study divide people into two groups and give one group retin-a and the other a placebo, or did they just study people who were using retin-a already and people who weren't?

The reason I ask is that smokers suffer far more from the skin issues that cause people to want to use retin-a ie prematurely aged, dry skin, so the retin-a group pre-selects people more prone to lung cancer.

And I agree with what everyone else has said. There's no way of knowing what other factors influence the outcome of the study... even if it was a controlled experiment of two random groups the fact that retin-a makes the skin look clearer/healthier might mean that the users are less likely to address their diet or exercise or supplementation than women whose skin is ageing at the normal rate. There's so much a study can't take into account

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:59 am

volmel wrote:

September Girl, I am very interested in what you are using now for wrinkle control since the
Retin-A caused you to have those problems. How horrible! I feel like I'm in such a dilemma. I'm 53 and the Obagi kept my skin looking great. Where do I go from here? Do you have any suggestions? What do people use that absolutely cannon use Retin A

Hi, volmel.
That is a good question. I was very sad that I could not use Retin-A because I had high hopes that it could erase my under eye lines and prevent further signs of aging.

Sooner or later I think I will try a retinol cream instead. There has been one good study showing that retinol has many of the same benefits as Retin-A, although it takes longer to see the results. I do wonder though if a retinol product will cause the same side effects that I experienced from the use of Retin-A. I don't dare trying I retinol cream until my hair growth is back to normal. I still lose a couple of eyebrow hair from each brow every day.

The last 4-5 weeks I have been using Remergent DNA Repair every night. It's too early to vote for its effectiveness, but this is about the only cream - besides retinoids and vitamin C serums - that have some independent studies supporting its anti-aging properties.

Here is a link to the reviews of Remergent DNA Repair on EDS forum

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=16358

Smile

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:19 am

Septembergirl wrote:

sahmisme wrote:

I never heard that, but the thing about those studies is they always seem to ignore other factors such as, in this case, did one group happen to smoke more? Do they address that?

The study by Dr Katz is a vehicle controlled randomized study, so that factors like smoking etc won't play a role. This is what characterizes published, scientific studies.

volmel -

thank you for posting the study. I have never heard that topical application of Retin-A is tied to lung problems, but I have experienced a very unpleasant side effect of tretinoin cream myself. I started using it this summer, and two months later my hair and eyebrow hairs changed texture and started to fall off. I lost up to eight hairs from each eyebrow every day.

I stopped using the cream six weeks ago, and now my hair and eyebrows are almost back to normal. So yes, the cream certainly enters the blood stream. Unnecessary to say, I won't use the cream again. That said, I believe hair loss is a rare side-effect from topical tretinoin.

On a general note, I tend to think that FDA-approved drugs are safe and that possible side effects are listed on the package. However, hair loss is not listed as a side-effect of topical retinoids (only the oral retinoid Accutane), and I am now 100 % sure that the hair loss I experienced was due to tretinoin. I also found one scientific study backing this theory.

I guess that we cannot blindly trust that all side-effects from drugs and medications are acknowledged and published. Confused

Septembergirl,

Have you considered using Tazorac as an alternative to Tretinoin? Maybe you'd have the same issues as it's also a retinoid, but just thought I'd mention it

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:11 am

otherloulou wrote:

Septembergirl wrote:

sahmisme wrote:

I never heard that, but the thing about those studies is they always seem to ignore other factors such as, in this case, did one group happen to smoke more? Do they address that?

The study by Dr Katz is a vehicle controlled randomized study, so that factors like smoking etc won't play a role. This is what characterizes published, scientific studies.

volmel -

thank you for posting the study. I have never heard that topical application of Retin-A is tied to lung problems, but I have experienced a very unpleasant side effect of tretinoin cream myself. I started using it this summer, and two months later my hair and eyebrow hairs changed texture and started to fall off. I lost up to eight hairs from each eyebrow every day.

I stopped using the cream six weeks ago, and now my hair and eyebrows are almost back to normal. So yes, the cream certainly enters the blood stream. Unnecessary to say, I won't use the cream again. That said, I believe hair loss is a rare side-effect from topical tretinoin.

On a general note, I tend to think that FDA-approved drugs are safe and that possible side effects are listed on the package. However, hair loss is not listed as a side-effect of topical retinoids (only the oral retinoid Accutane), and I am now 100 % sure that the hair loss I experienced was due to tretinoin. I also found one scientific study backing this theory.

I guess that we cannot blindly trust that all side-effects from drugs and medications are acknowledged and published. Confused

Septembergirl,

Have you considered using Tazorac as an alternative to Tretinoin? Maybe you'd have the same issues as it's also a retinoid, but just thought I'd mention it

oh no, I wouldn`t advise Septembergirl to go this route again Shock

would you use it being aware of hair loss risk if you were her?? Rolling Eyes

- I doubt it...
I would suggest to wait till her hair will grow back to normal, and then try the mildest version of retinol and see how she reacts. If her hair does not responds negatively, it`s possible to go to a higher % of retinol.
Being at such a risk it`s wise to try to introduce it mildly and cautiously.
but she knows it herself, don`t you, Septembergirl? Wink

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:11 pm

hhm besides Retinol, I heard that the AlphaDerma CE serum helps with lines & wrinkles too. They used a 10% Airgeline(sp?) to act like Botox to relax your muscles. But I heard long term use of this might lead to neurological problems such as Bell's Palsy.

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:35 pm

Stardustdy wrote:

hhm besides Retinol, I heard that the AlphaDerma CE serum helps with lines & wrinkles too. They used a 10% Airgeline(sp?) to act like Botox to relax your muscles. But I heard long term use of this might lead to neurological problems such as Bell's Palsy.

I don`t know much about neurological problems that might cause long term use of Argireline, but I still would not use it all over my face - as I do not want ALL my face to be RELAXED Rolling Eyes

botox is used locally for forehead lines, crows feet but NOT ALL OVER the face Shock

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:05 pm

I looked up Retinoids and cancer on MEDLINE

There are many articles talking about the preventative effects. I put a paragraph from a review article below. I did not see any linking retinoids to causing cancer. Is this a peer reviewed article or some doctor's Website?

Sun and Lotan Crit Rev oncol Hem.(2002)Retinoids play an important role in regulating the growth and differentiation of normal, premalignant and malignant cell types, especially epithelial cells, mainly through interaction with two types of nuclear receptors: retinoic acid receptors (RARalpha, beta and gamma) and retinoid X receptors (RXRalpha, beta and gamma). Vitamin A deficiency in experimental animals has been associated with a higher incidence of cancer and with increased susceptibility to chemical carcinogens. This is in agreement with the epidemiological studies indicating that individuals with a lower dietary vitamin A intake are at a higher risk to develop cancer. At the molecular level, aberrant expression and function of nuclear retinoid receptors have been found in various types of cancer including premalignant lesions. Thus, aberrations in retinoid signaling are early events in carcinogenesis. Retinoids at pharmacological doses exhibit a variety of effects associated with cancer prevention. They suppress transformation of cells in vitro, inhibit carcinogenesis in various organs in animal models, reduce premalignant human epithelial lesions and prevent second primary tumors following curative therapy for epithelial malignancies such as head and neck, lung, liver, and breast cancer.

PMID: 11796231 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Related ArticlesReviewRetinoids in cancer chemoprevention. [FASEB J. 1996] ReviewRetinoids in cancer chemoprevention. [Curr Cancer Drug Targets. 2004] ReviewThe retinoids and cancer prevention mechanisms. [Oncologist. 2000] Breast cancer progression in MCF10A series of cell lines is associated with alterations in retinoic acid and retinoid X receptors and with differential response to retinoids. [Int J Oncol. 2004] ReviewRetinoids and chemoprevention of aerodigestive tract cancers. [Cancer Metastasis Rev. 1997] » See Reviews... | » See All...

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:27 pm

Septembergirl,

Maybe the 302 A boost would be a good mild version of a retinoid? It had retinyl palmitate and retinol. I was on the fense about retinoids for a while, but I have just now ordered the A boost. (From Nemo, and he applies the forum discount)

Septembergirl wrote:

Hi, volmel.
That is a good question. I was very sad that I could not use Retin-A because I had high hopes that it could erase my under eye lines and prevent further signs of aging.

Sooner or later I think I will try a retinol cream instead. There has been one good study showing that retinol has many of the same benefits as Retin-A, although it takes longer to see the results. I do wonder though if a retinol product will cause the same side effects that I experienced from the use of Retin-A. I don't dare trying I retinol cream until my hair growth is back to normal. I still lose a couple of eyebrow hair from each brow every day.

The last 4-5 weeks I have been using Remergent DNA Repair every night. It's too early to vote for its effectiveness, but this is about the only cream - besides retinoids and vitamin C serums - that have some independent studies supporting its anti-aging properties.

Here is a link to the reviews of Remergent DNA Repair on EDS forum

http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=16358

Smile

free skin care · Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:23 pm

Aiva wrote:

otherloulou wrote:

Have you considered using Tazorac as an alternative to Tretinoin? Maybe you'd have the same issues as it's also a retinoid, but just thought I'd mention it

oh no, I wouldn`t advise Septembergirl to go this route again Shock

would you use it being aware of hair loss risk if you were her?? Rolling Eyes

- I doubt it...
I would suggest to wait till her hair will grow back to normal, and then try the mildest version of retinol and see how she reacts. If her hair does not responds negatively, it`s possible to go to a higher % of retinol.
Being at such a risk it`s wise to try to introduce it mildly and cautiously.
but she knows it herself, don`t you, Septembergirl? Wink

Oh yes, Aiva. Smile

No more prescription strength retinoids for me. Since OTC retinol is the natural form of vitamin A, as opposed to tretinoin and tazarotene which are synthetic derivatives, I hope it will be OK, but who knows. Confused

Nimue wrote:

Septembergirl,

Maybe the 302 A Boost would be a good mild version of a retinoid? it had retinyl palmitate and retinol. I was on the fense about retinoids for a while, but I have just now ordered the A Boost.(From Nemo, and he applies the forum discount)

Thank you for your suggestion, Nimue. If I remember correctly, the 302Skincare A Boost contains more retinyl palmitate than retinol. I suspect it being to mild to combat wrinkles. I still think you landed on the right side of the fence. A Boost might be a good choice for young people like you. Smile

Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:06 am

Did the study divide people into two groups and give one group retin-a and the other a placebo, or did they just study people who were using retin-a already and people who weren't?

The reason I ask is that smokers suffer far more from the skin issues that cause people to want to use retin-a ie prematurely aged, dry skin, so the retin-a group pre-selects people more prone to lung cancer.

And I agree with what everyone else has said. There's no way of knowing what other factors influence the outcome of the study... even if it was a controlled experiment of two random groups the fact that retin-a makes the skin look clearer/healthier might mean that the users are less likely to address their diet or exercise or supplementation than women whose skin is ageing at the normal rate. There's so much a study can't take into account

I looked up Retinoids and cancer on MEDLINE

There are many articles talking about the preventative effects. I put a paragraph from a review article below. I did not see any linking retinoids to causing cancer. Is this a peer reviewed article or some doctor's Website?

Sharky and otherloulou: The study was done as a hopes of preventing skin cancer. It was done in two groups with one group getting the placebo. The study had to be stopped after a few years because the one getting the Tretinoin starting getting serious pulmonary issues. Not just lung cancer bet serious lung issues just like I have developed. They had high hopes that it would prevent skin cancer, that's why they started the study.

Dr. Katz is well published. This article appeared in the Archives of Dermatology. It appears he submitted this article so that dermatologists could be aware of this issue.

Like I said before I can't post the link until I have a few more posts under my belt here. I'll try to post it without a direct link:

archderm dot ama-assn dot org/cgi/content/short/144/7/945?rss=1

Put a . where I have the word dot.

Like I said I went ahead and paid to be able to view the whole article. It seemed that it could be a cause to these awful lung problems I am having. It does worry me that they started the trials to try to prevent skin cancer and had to stop it because of lung problems to the patients. It did make me stop and think.

free skin care · Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:28 pm

Aiva wrote:

Stardustdy wrote:

hhm besides Retinol, I heard that the AlphaDerma CE serum helps with lines & wrinkles too. They used a 10% Airgeline(sp?) to act like Botox to relax your muscles. But I heard long term use of this might lead to neurological problems such as Bell's Palsy.

I don`t know much about neurological problems that might cause long term use of Argireline, but I still would not use it all over my face - as I do not want ALL my face to be RELAXED Rolling Eyes

botox is used locally for forehead lines, crows feet but NOT ALL OVER the face Shock

Well that's what I think too. I don't think ppl have Botox all over the face. But the AlphaDerma CE is to apply all over the face so guess it's not a good idea? BTW, is Botox used on the nasal folds too?

So regarding the Retinol or RetinA issue. If I don't use it every night, would that be safer? Also, what if it's just a small amount?

Also, I always wonder if AHA is the same as Retinol cuz it sloughs off the surface of the skin too??

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