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Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:49 am  |
Hi Everyone  ,
The C serum I use is produced by Cellex C. I don't hear this serum mentioned much on this forum.....Does anyone know off-hand what the difference in formulation is amongst the various "Cs" out there? How is the efficacy different between Cellex C, Skinceuticals and Vivier? The Cellex C feels entirely aqueous - what is the texture like of the other topical Cs?
Any comments and/or recommendations would be greatly appreciated! |
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 8:53 pm |
| Cellex-C uses water in their formula. This is old-school. Newest technology uses nonaqueous solutions (propylene/butylene glycol - helps with penetration of C into skin) or silicone bases that protect the l-ascorbic acid from water/air. Some believe that tyrosine helps prevent L-ascorbic acid from reacting with oxygen in water but it's fairly well-known here that a bottle of Cellex-C will "turn" fairly quickly (within 4 weeks). When your clear C starts looking amber/brownish, then it's oxidized and shouldn't be used any longer. My personal favorite C is CellularSkinRx.com's C+ Firming serum. Vivier is also popular here. |
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Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:17 pm |
| I love Pure "C" from CosMedix. It is 100% pure L-ascorbic acid in pure crystal form. Much more active than C-esters or products that are already mixed. It is free from oxidative damage since it is not activated until you mix it with a product of your choice. This is not the same as oral powder form L-ascorbic acid as you would find in a health food store. This is made for topical application only. It is great because it never oxidizes. It's always fresh, pure and ready to use with whatever products you choose. The company states 3 shakes are = to 15% L-ascorbic and 5= to approx 20%. |
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:51 am |
WOW - thanks Betterat40 and Skindoc....very interesting stuff...which begs the question - powder or serum? I've actually heard that the powder/crystal is not as effective as the serums....go figure....any other thoughts re: the serum vs. crystal route? How expensive is the crystal form?
Thanks again - this is great!!! |
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:37 am |
| If you are not a licensed professional, the 100% L-ascorbic acid is going to cost you approx. $75 - $100. Contrary to what you may or may not have heard about it's efficacy, it is very effective as a topical in powder form. This is revolutionary, but beware of companies that will offer you just any vitamin C powder. It is not all the same. It is not the same as oral Vitamin C as I stated earlier, so you cannot go to the health food store and get vitamin c tablets, crush them and make your own serum! check out CosMedix websitewww.cosmedix.com for more information. Good Luck! |
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Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:18 pm |
Excellent - thanks a million!
Annie |
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Mabsy
Moderator
 
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 9644
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:11 am |
| skindoc wrote: |
Contrary to what you may or may not have heard about it's efficacy, it is very effective as a topical in powder form. |
In powder form? You mean powder diluted in water? I was under the impression that most serums have the vit C dissolved in ingredients that actually help the absorption of the vit C?
Btw, I would also like to add that from what I understand a vit C serum is not useless when it turns orange. It means that it's not as potent as it once was but can still be used for quite some time with effect. Just adding my Au$0.02. |
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:13 am |
skin doc, what is the difference between the L- ascorbic acid sold by cosmedix and that sold by the local chemist? My chemist has pure L- ascorbic acid powder for £2. surely L-ascorbic acid is L-ascorbic acid?  |
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my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:32 am |
skindoc, could you please explain what you mean when you say "but beware of companies that will offer you just any vitamin C powder. It is not all the same".
Are you aware of any difference between the CosMedix product you recommend and the Philosophy hope in a prayer vitamin C powder in particular? |
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Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:01 pm |
| I can only speak about CosMedix and about what you should be aware of....CosMedix Pure-C is 100% L-ascorbic acid. It is not ascorbic acid, a 50/50 variation of L-ascorbic acid and D-ascorbic acid. Confused? It is chiral, and plain ascorbic acid is not. It is the combination of L and D ascorbic acid which costs less and isn't very effective. That particular version cannot communicate well with your skin cell receptors, so it may not be effective or it can be very irritating to the skin, but usually, it just is non effective. So choose your product wisely. Look for vitamin c's that state "L-ascorbic acid" on the labels. Also, the CosMedix Pure C is a different cosmeceutical grade than that of oral L-ascorbic acid. I cannot say that there is any difference to whoever was asking that question with reference to your chemist! |
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Mon Jan 24, 2005 3:08 am |
Skindoc, do you use any products other than CosMedix? I find it really quite curious that ALL of your posts are pushing this line. I appreciate that it is only available through derms etc, but you do seem to be flagging up this company whilst slagging off others. I hope that you have read forum guidelines before posting...we take a very dim view of shilling here!
As regards L-ascorbic acid, what IS the difference between 'cosmeceutical' grade and 'oral' grade? I asked my chemist, and he said that there is no difference. I told him about what you said, and his response was that possibly in the states there are 2 grades and that the oral grade is presumably purer as it is taken internally. |
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my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:35 pm |
| I do. I use only, medical/professional products...Kinerase, for some of my clients, some items from Visual Changes, but mostly I do love Cosmedix because of the results I have personally seen and because of the results my clients see without irritation and inflamation. Your chemist is probably correct is stating that the oral version is purer. |
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Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:33 pm |
| skindoc wrote: |
| Your chemist is probably correct is stating that the oral version is purer. |
but I still don't see what is the difference between Cosmedix mega expensive L-a.a. and pure L-a.a. that is suitable for internal use Is it an American thing or what? I couldn't find anything on the internet about there being ANY difference at all!
God...I must stop researching skin stuff and get on with my damn dissertation...this crap takes too long!  |
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my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:28 pm |
| I love your closing line...her vanity was exceeded only by her stupidity..... |
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Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:36 pm |
Does anyone know anything about the Perricone/Jan Marini C technology? Any comments/thoughts re: ascorbic acid vs. ascorbyl palmitate? JM employs ascorbyl palmitate (lipid soluble) in the C-Esta line as does Perricone (I think)...which "they' say is far more effective than ascorbic acid......(sigh...) - and just when I thought I knew what I was doing!!  Anyway, any insights would be greatly appreciated!
Annie |
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Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:48 am |
| skindoc wrote: |
| I love your closing line...her vanity was exceeded only by her stupidity..... |
 no need to be offensive!
I am trying to understand what the difference is...you are obviously a dermatologist or connected with the skincare industry in some other way and you make statements like
'CosMedix Pure-C is 100% L-a.a. .... It is the combination of L and D a.a. which costs less and isn't very effective. ... Also, the CosMedix Pure C is a different cosmeceutical grade than that of oral L-ascorbic acid.'
So, are there 2 grades of pure L-a.a. or not? If so, please can you show a link explaining how and why they are different. And if not, what are you going on about?
Liz  |
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my new jewellery website:www.gentle-medusa.com |
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Mabsy
Moderator
Joined: 17 Aug 2003
Posts: 9644
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Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:56 am |
Pudoodles - from what I understand the Jan Marini vit C is not as effective but it's less irritating so better for more sensitive skins. At least that's the impression I'm under.
Skindoc - be very careful what you write on an online forum. These posts are here to stay for ever. If you offend people, that tends to get tied to your credibility and the credibility of your previous posts and recommendations. Guapagirl asked a valid question which you didn't answer, choosing instead to post what you did. Next time please consider how your post can be interpreted before you hit "submit".
| skindoc wrote: |
| I love your closing line...her vanity was exceeded only by her stupidity..... |
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Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:52 am |
Sorry if I offended you, however, I simply stated that I loved what you selected to close each post with. That is what you chose to say, not I. Now, I have realized that I entered a Forum, for the consumer and not the professional, and I apologize for that also. My job is not to convince everyone to understand what is beyond their comprehension, especially if you (generally speaking) have not had formal training. On the other hand, if you have had formal, esthetic, medical or biochemistry education, then this should all make perfect sense to you. As far as answering questions, they have all been answered, in fact, several times!
So forgive me for trying to educate the consumer, I will not try to help again.  [/b] |
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Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:22 am |
Skindoc, if you wanted to educate us you would have answered Guapagirl's question! As long as you don't I assume you don't know the answer..
But while we're waiting I've put my lovely chemist/scientist on the case. So far he's 99% sure there is only one type of L-ascorbic acid.. |
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Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:10 am |
| Well, since you're entering the game late, I can only assume you didn't read all of my posts completely. So, before speaking out of context, please do, have your chemist get on this HUGE case that we've ALL made it! From Norway to Austrailia, to the UK, we will all have a difference of opinions and so will our chemists who will all think that they know best. So...where will we go from here? It is a matter of one's belief, accompanied with the experience of the aforementioned products or ingredients. |
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Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:37 am |
| Actually I did read all your post! And as to answering Guapagirls question, there is only one type of L-ascorbic acid. On this I'm quite certain as my husband is a graduate engineer chemist, not a drugstore chemist( Sorry if anybody got confused). |
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