Older Thinning Eyebrows
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Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:00 pm

I am in my early fifties and noticing that my eyebrows are getting really thin and its not caused by over plucking because its happening where I have never plucked. I have read that castor oil works but am wondering if it will only work for younger women? I have been using it on my brows and lash line for about a week but am starting to wonder if my age will prevent anything from working regardless of what it is. Sad

Does anyone else have this problem and if so, have you done anything other then fill them in with brow powder or pencil? It looks so awful when I don't fill them in. Embarassed

free skin care · Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:13 pm

Hi moonjewell, I have had sparse eyebrows on the outer edges for all my life, but since I never paid my eyebrows any attention until 2003, I just went about life completely oblivious to the fact that they are an essential beauty asset. Then I discovered the websitewww.eyebrowz.com and realized there's such a thing as shaping them. I did some plucking to create an arch as directed but that just made them look even sorrier than they were...so drawing them in became a skill I excelled in.

Well, I discovered that SkinBio had an eyebrow regrowth program and was intrigued. Turns out copper peptides do thicken hair...so if thin hairs are your problem then it may just work for you. In the time I've focused on eyebrows, I've used Castor oil (people said it regrew the hair--and without realizing that I never had hair follicles on the out edges of my eyebrows judging from my baby pics, I gave it a try)... I've used an essential oil concoction that grew back bald spots on my head; Ardell Brow Growth Accelarator, Emu oil, Brow Gain by Damon Roberts--the Eyebrow King...and they were I guess to thank for any changes that occurred between 2004 and 2008 in the main part of my eyebrow where I always had hair. I just couldn't say which one worked the best, since I didn't really stick to any religiously or pay attention. Because I draw my eyebrows in pretty well, and it doesn't take me more than a couple of minutes to do so, I usually drop the ball in the growing journey. Then now I don't bother because my baby photos confirmed to me that my outer edges never had hair so no follicles exist.

I shared my results on the SkinBio forum (link) below. What I do believe is that Folligen may thicken the hairs and make them appear darker and therefore less "invisible". Minoxidil which it is advised to be used with Folligen is a product I'm not a fan of because it's the active ingredient in Rogaine and while it WILL grow the hair in--meaning you'll grow more hairs albeit very fine ones, which Folligen may then thicken--you must never stop using Minoxidil or all the hair you grew with it will fall out. And I hate the idea of having that sort of life-sentence. So if I were you, I'd just try the thickening product. (Link to the SkinBio thread where I posted my results)

Oh and I don't believe products that make eyelashes longer will thicken eyebrows. Getting hair long and filling in hair are two different things. I think the lengthening products may just make your eyebrows long enough for a comb-over. Laughing

Many products on the market that promise eyebrows cost the price of a small kidney and that's w/o any results being shown so I just give them the side-eye. An example is a product that used to be sold by American Hairloss R&D Institute. Seems the website is non-existent now but it was $98 for a product whose results I couldn't be sure. The website used to bewww.eyebrowregrowth.com but now I can only find a cached image of the site. Here's the cached page showing the ingredients which sounded really good but not worth $98 for two 10 ml bottles. Yes, I'm cheap LOL. And the fact that it's gone POOF! just makes me feel even better that I never spent my money on something that didn't have any staying power.

Then there's Brow Revive Serum which is not that cheap either but I don't remember there being results for the brow product. They say it addresses hormonal loss so maybe you could write and ask them more about it.

Billion Dollar Brows though which I have used does show results--but I suspect you need to have had follicles there in the first place--which in your case you do--for these products to work. My sparse edges I don't think were ever going to benefit from the product.

I hope throwing so many things at you hasn't confused you but offered you a variety from which you can find a solution.

Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:28 pm

Thanks so much for taking the time to put down all that info Nonie! The outer parts of my brows are fine. Its the inner that are thinning as well as the top of one. I will have a look at the things you write about Smile

free skin care · Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:39 pm

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Oh and I don't believe products that make eyelashes longer will thicken eyebrows. Getting hair long and filling in hair are two different things. I think the lengthening products may just make your eyebrows long enough for a comb-over. Laughing

Products such as Careprost can increase the density of hair because they boost the amount of time a hair spends in the growth phase, therefore increasing the number of hairs in that same phase.

free skin care · Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:33 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Oh and I don't believe products that make eyelashes longer will thicken eyebrows. Getting hair long and filling in hair are two different things. I think the lengthening products may just make your eyebrows long enough for a comb-over. Laughing

Products such as Careprost can increase the density of hair because they boost the amount of time a hair spends in the growth phase, therefore increasing the number of hairs in that same phase.

Firefox7275 I've heard such claims but I'm yet to see results that are convincing. Even the eyelash results just show me longer not fuller. Look at the images here on Makeup Alley, mostly they show lash progress but the change in lash fullness doesn't seem to have changed IMO:
http://www.makeupalley.com/product/showreview.asp/ItemId=129458/Careprost~Generic_Brand_Latisse_/0/Eyes

What I see instead is the same change that occurs in my lashes when I use mascara: my lashes stand out more (not get fuller) but also look longer:

I've even written to Latisse folks coz of the same sentiments I have about lengthening vs thickening (and I believe the product is similar to Careprost) and questioned them about this and never heard back. Neutral

So yeah, not convinced that lash lengthening products can be brow thickening ie filling in. I'm more likely to believe two different products, one for lengthening and one for filling in.

free skin care · Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:36 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Products such as Careprost can increase the density of hair because they boost the amount of time a hair spends in the growth phase, therefore increasing the number of hairs in that same phase.

Just wanted to address the point in bold. Extending the growth phase of a hair doesn't mean there will be more hairs. Until a hair is shed, no other NEW hairs grow, so all that boosting the growth phase does is make the hair grow longer. So that instead of it shedding after growing to a shorter length, it'll grow much longer before it is shed.

For more hairs than usual to grow, either follicles that were inactive need to be awakened somehow...or you have to somehow create new follicles that were not there before so they can produce new hairs and add to the density of hair.

Now I can see thickening of hair strands as happens with copper peptides giving a fuller appearance because fine hairs tend to look "hardly there".

Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:17 am

I may just look into this copper pep-tide solution at some point. For now I am trying out the castor oil but finding, though many say it makes their mascara go on better, that it sort of mucks mine up, though I do wash my face in the morning! Think I will stay away from my lashes from now on and just concentrate on my brows. One week in and no difference. If after several weeks there is only length or nothing at all, I will give up this experiment. I am putting it on my husband head though where he is thinning too and we will see what happens with that. There is always something new that one doesn't expect when aging Sad

I am glad this has started a conversation though and love hearing from others on this topic.

free skin care · Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:03 pm

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Firefox7275 I've heard such claims but I'm yet to see results that are convincing. Even the eyelash results just show me longer not fuller. Look at the images here on Makeup Alley, mostly they show lash progress but the change in lash fullness doesn't seem to have changed IMO:
http://www.makeupalley.com/product/showreview.asp/ItemId=129458/Careprost~Generic_Brand_Latisse_/0/Eyes

What I see instead is the same change that occurs in my lashes when I use mascara: my lashes stand out more (not get fuller) but also look longer <snip>

I've even written to Latisse folks coz of the same sentiments I have about lengthening vs thickening (and I believe the product is similar to Careprost) and questioned them about this and never heard back. Neutral

So yeah, not convinced that lash lengthening products can be brow thickening ie filling in. I'm more likely to believe two different products, one for lengthening and one for filling in.

Just wanted to address the point in bold. Extending the growth phase of a hair doesn't mean there will be more hairs. Until a hair is shed, no other NEW hairs grow, so all that boosting the growth phase does is make the hair grow longer. So that instead of it shedding after growing to a shorter length, it'll grow much longer before it is shed.

For more hairs than usual to grow, either follicles that were inactive need to be awakened somehow...or you have to somehow create new follicles that were not there before so they can produce new hairs and add to the density of hair.

Now I can see thickening of hair strands as happens with copper peptides giving a fuller appearance because fine hairs tend to look "hardly there".

Thanks for your replies! Very Happy

I use Careprost and my lashes are definitely both longer and more of them on the inner corners at least. I have heard reports of eyebrows that have been overplucked filling in, but I haven't personally tried that. Latisse is licensed for a form of alopecia, so presumably the active ingredient is proven to 'awaken' dormant follicles in some circumstances.

Note that I said 'can' not 'do' in my earlier post because my understanding is that some users experience lengthening, some see more hairs, some both and a small percentage no change. I assume - not researched this - that is related to individual variance in how long their eyelashes naturally spend in the growth and dormant phases, and perhaps use patterns as it seems to be common to reduce from daily when the desired length is reached.

Please excuse the idiot model of how this *could* work, this is a reflection of my comprehension style not that I think you are anything less than intelligent. Embarassed

Numbers lifted from this linky.
http://www.radiantlash.com/eyelashes-regrowth

Anagen (lash growth) average 37 days
Assume doubled with bimatoprost
Catagen (dormant hair) average 17 days
Assume no change with bimatoprost
Telogen (empty follicle) 100 days
Assume no change with bimatoprost
Under normal circumstances total cycle takes 154 days, during which each follicle is 'occupied' for 54 days so ~35%. IF anagen doubled to 91 days with bimatoprost, the total cycle takes 191 days of which each follicle is occupied ~48% of the time. Is that enough to see in a photograph or mirror?

free skin care · Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:43 pm

Firefox7275 wrote:

Thanks for your replies! Very Happy

I use Careprost and my lashes are definitely both longer and more of them on the inner corners at least. I have heard reports of eyebrows that have been overplucked filling in, but I haven't personally tried that. Latisse is licensed for a form of alopecia, so presumably the active ingredient is proven to 'awaken' dormant follicles in some circumstances.

Note that I said 'can' not 'do' in my earlier post because my understanding is that some users experience lengthening, some see more hairs, some both and a small percentage no change. I assume - not researched this - that is related to individual variance in how long their eyelashes naturally spend in the growth and dormant phases, and perhaps use patterns as it seems to be common to reduce from daily when the desired length is reached.

Please excuse the idiot model of how this *could* work, this is a reflection of my comprehension style not that I think you are anything less than intelligent. Embarassed

Numbers lifted from this linky.
http://www.radiantlash.com/eyelashes-regrowth

Anagen (lash growth) average 37 days
Assume doubled with bimatoprost
Catagen (dormant hair) average 17 days
Assume no change with bimatoprost
Telogen (empty follicle) 100 days
Assume no change with bimatoprost
Under normal circumstances total cycle takes 154 days, during which each follicle is 'occupied' for 54 days so ~35%. IF anagen doubled to 91 days with bimatoprost, the total cycle takes 191 days of which each follicle is occupied ~48% of the time. Is that enough to see in a photograph or mirror?

Just wanted to clarify that during the Telogen phase also known as the resting phase is indeed when shedding of eyelashes (hair) occurs, but not suddenly so follicles are not really all empty, but a few shed a day. Remember every lash is on its own cycle so they don't all reach this phase together but it may just be a few and then only some of those shed today and so on.

So extending the Anagen phase just means they will grow to a greater length before they enter the shedding phase. So when you first start using it, there may be that appearance of more hairs because the ones that just finished the normal cycle will have started growing while the ones with the extended growth phase are still hanging on. But after a while everything evens out so that when the first set that grew to longer lengths sheds, then you'll have the same density as you had before, because now all the hairs will be growing for the same long period, transitioning for the same period (as always) and resting for the same period (as always). In other words, the density will remain the same only you'll have longer hairs--which seems to agree with the images shown.

free skin care · Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:15 am

I use Careprost (bimatoprost)now and when I just started using eyelash enhancing products (RapidLash, RevitaLash and even Careprost) I had almost no results, then a little growth, then all my grown lashes would fall off almost at the same time leaving only new short lashes. The growth was not significant at first couple of cycles and no fill at all. But I continued with Careprost, and now I am very pleased. It's been 3 years since I started using lash enhancement, my eye lashes are much much fuller and quite long and noticeable even with no mascara on (well I have to permanently tint them). So I guess, with this products, for some people like me it takes time to see the fill and growth.

free skin care · Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:12 am

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Just wanted to clarify that during the Telogen phase also known as the resting phase is indeed when shedding of eyelashes (hair) occurs, but not suddenly so follicles are not really all empty, but a few shed a day. Remember every lash is on its own cycle so they don't all reach this phase together but it may just be a few and then only some of those shed today and so on.

I am aware of that but you can't do probability without making certain assumptions. If the assumptions are the same with and without bimatoprost they don't change the net result. It is irrelevant whether individual hairs are at the start or end of a phase because my model is not on average length of hairs, just presence or absence (i.e. density). If not all telogen follicles are empty then you would have greater density of hair than I allowed for, but it would be greater with or without bimatoprost, so the net change would be nil.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

So extending the Anagen phase just means they will grow to a greater length before they enter the shedding phase. So when you first start using it, there may be that appearance of more hairs because the ones that just finished the normal cycle will have started growing while the ones with the extended growth phase are still hanging on. But after a while everything evens out so that when the first set that grew to longer lengths sheds, then you'll have the same density as you had before, because now all the hairs will be growing for the same long period, transitioning for the same period (as always) and resting for the same period (as always). In other words, the density will remain the same only you'll have longer hairs--which seems to agree with the images shown.

I think you are confusing more occupied follicles with a greater number of follicles? Or do you think bimatoprost makes lashes grow faster, reaching a greater terminal length without increasing the duration of anagen? Feel free to adjust my earlier model to what you believe is realistic. It is completely possible I am mistaken, but I cannot follow your logic without a realistic mathematical equation.

free skin care · Sun Dec 18, 2011 3:00 pm

Eyebrow thinning is one sign of hypothyroidism.

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:03 pm

I, too, thought my eyebrows were thinning. Upon closer examination I realized that many were still there, but just really light. I have dark hair so it seems I have entered that dreaded graying phase. As a result, I have started getting my eye brows dyed whenever I get my hair done. It is amazing how much this has helped my eyebrows come back to life. In between the dye job, I touch up with MAC eyebrow mascara.

Now if we could come up with a product to stop graying ... that would be perfect! Smile

free skin care · Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:18 am

Firefox7275 wrote:

Nonie aka AD wrote:

Just wanted to clarify that during the Telogen phase also known as the resting phase is indeed when shedding of eyelashes (hair) occurs, but not suddenly so follicles are not really all empty, but a few shed a day. Remember every lash is on its own cycle so they don't all reach this phase together but it may just be a few and then only some of those shed today and so on.

I am aware of that but you can't do probability without making certain assumptions. If the assumptions are the same with and without bimatoprost they don't change the net result. It is irrelevant whether individual hairs are at the start or end of a phase because my model is not on average length of hairs, just presence or absence (i.e. density). If not all telogen follicles are empty then you would have greater density of hair than I allowed for, but it would be greater with or without bimatoprost, so the net change would be nil.

OK, let me try and explain this better. If the anagen phase is extended, it means the hairs that are in the anagen phase that were supposed to enter the resting phase before going into telogen will continue to grow (hence the increase in length). The follicles that were empty from having just shed hair will start a new cycle on this new but longer spell of growth. So you have the hair that were supposed to rest before shedding yesterday, still growing because their growth phase has been extended. And you now have new hairs that have started growing on this new prolonged schedule. So what you have at this point or two days from now is hair that was supposed to shed still holding on...and now new hairs joining them so the density will be great. Hairs that were supposed to shed two days ago didn't shed but are now joined by new hairs.

So for argument's sake let's just take a random time and say that the lashes were growing for 30 days before entering the resting phase that precedes shedding. But thanks to Careprost they now hang on for up to 50 days. But after that time the hairs that got more life do shed, and you will be left with just the normal density of hair you always had. Why because now your lashes growth cycle for all has adjusted to this new cycle. In other words, every hair follicle will grow hair for 50 days before they go into resting phase. The extended anagen phase means hairs will be longer...but there'll be no hairs overstaying their time on the lids (as before when you just gave them an extension so they didn't shed)...but now all your lashes will be on the same schedule, meaning the density will return to what it used to be.

Before the anagen phase was increased you had hairs growing for 30 days and a percentage being shed daily. Now you have them growing for 50 days and the same percentage being shed daily. The difference will be longer lashes because they grow for long, but density will return to what it was.

Now if the product does darken lashes as well, then you will indeed see the "illusion" of fullness too. I already showed you how mascara does that for me.

Nonie aka AD wrote:

So extending the Anagen phase just means they will grow to a greater length before they enter the shedding phase. So when you first start using it, there may be that appearance of more hairs because the ones that just finished the normal cycle will have started growing while the ones with the extended growth phase are still hanging on. But after a while everything evens out so that when the first set that grew to longer lengths sheds, then you'll have the same density as you had before, because now all the hairs will be growing for the same long period, transitioning for the same period (as always) and resting for the same period (as always). In other words, the density will remain the same only you'll have longer hairs--which seems to agree with the images shown.

I think you are confusing more occupied follicles with a greater number of follicles? Or do you think bimatoprost makes lashes grow faster, reaching a greater terminal length without increasing the duration of anagen? Feel free to adjust my earlier model to what you believe is realistic. It is completely possible I am mistaken, but I cannot follow your logic without a realistic mathematical equation.[/quote]

I am not confusing anything really. I realize that more follicles will be occupied at the start of the use of the product because the ones that would normally have spit out the hair at this point suddenly get an "extended-stay pass" so those follicles that would normally have been empty remained filled. The ones that were empty would also grow new hairs because their anagen phase starts. So if this were a hotel, you'd have new guests filling the empty rooms and the guests that were supposed to check out yesterday still around. So the hotel would be full.

However, all you've done is just decided that all guests can now stay for a total of 50 days. Meaning those whom you gave an extension who were supposed to check out at 30 days will now stay for another 20. So after 50 days, they check out. The rooms they left are now empty. Density/occupation is no longer as high as it was when all rooms were occupied because the first checkout has occurred since the start of Careprost. So other guests start to move in, but guess what, some other guests are also checking out. In other words, the density will never be as high as it was when all follicles were occupied because now the new schedule is in place and shedding it happening as it should. The hairs will be longer though.

But now that I think about it, while density may not be as it was when all follicles were full, perhaps it is slightly greater than it would be without the Careprost at all because the fact that anagen phase is longer, and none of the other phases change, it means the new growth hairs show up relatively sooner so join those checking out albeit for a brief time, so perhaps the extended anagen phase does allow for some overlap in the phases where new "guests" show up after a relatively short time and find the other guests still completing their stay. Idea

But I can't marry this idea with how it'd be good for eyebrows. I don't like the idea of long eyebrows, so if extending the anagen phase is what it takes to see a tiny bit of fullness, and it means I'll have to start trimming eyebrows, then I'd justpass. I think I'd like a product that lengthens the catagen phase and just shortens the telogen phase without affecting the anagen phase. That way my eyebrows don't grow any longer but the resting phase is long enough for my eyebrows to just stay dormant at their final length so new hairs arrive while the old are still around, and then the shedding time be so short that the new hairs show up before the shedding has had a chance to leave scarcity.

Aah...I can only dream.

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