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Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:49 am  |
| I have been using Neostrata's 10% glycolic lotion once daily at night. I have not experienced any burning, stinging or tingling, even thought this is my first glycolic acid product. It just feels like a normal lotion. I have used the 10% glycolic acid for 5 days now, and have not experienced any dryness or flaking. I'm wondering if perhaps my cleanser and toner are counteracting the glycolic acid somehow? I am currently using Vivier hexam cleanser (pH of 7), and Vivier deep cleaning astringent (pH of 4.5). Should I be waiting awhile after I cleanse and tone to apply glycolic acid? I have tried reading the posts about pH and wait times, and I'm still confused. Any info would be greatly appreciated! |
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22yrs old, oily t-zone, prone to breakouts - especially on my chin |
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:48 pm |
Do you mean this thread?
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18360
What is the pH of your glycolic product? And what are you using afterwards, what pH is that how long are you waiting? You don't necessarily want burning, stinging, dryness or flaking from a daily AHA product - that would indicate irritation or inflammation which are damaging long term. If you want these effects you would be better doing a slightly stronger weekly exfoliation peel. |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:32 pm |
Thanks for the reply Firefox. Yes, that is the thread I was talking about.
I don't have the exact pH for the glycolic acid, the Neostrata website just says that all of their lotions are somewhere between a pH of 3.5 and 4. I am not applying anything afterwards. I'm glad that I'm not having any negative side effects from it, I just want to make sure that I'm using it correctly. |
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22yrs old, oily t-zone, prone to breakouts - especially on my chin |
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:26 pm |
| CindyLouise wrote: |
| I have been using Neostrata's 10% glycolic lotion once daily at night. I have not experienced any burning, stinging or tingling, even thought this is my first glycolic acid product. It just feels like a normal lotion. I have used the 10% glycolic acid for 5 days now, and have not experienced any dryness or flaking. I'm wondering if perhaps my cleanser and toner are counteracting the glycolic acid somehow? I am currently using Vivier hexam cleanser (pH of 7), and Vivier deep cleaning astringent (pH of 4.5). Should I be waiting awhile after I cleanse and tone to apply glycolic acid? I have tried reading the posts about pH and wait times, and I'm still confused. Any info would be greatly appreciated! |
If the PH is 3.5 then that is very high and it won't do much on your skin. That makes the free acid value of that glycolic around 5%. I would purhase the 10% Lactic Acid from Dianayvonne.com. It has a ph of 1.9 which will make it twice as strong as what you are using now. I have been using it since 2004. I guarantee you will feel that once you put it on and it will do a much better job of exfoliating your skin. |
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:39 pm |
| Are you not using a sunscreen CindyLouise? Am I right in thinking the Vivier Hexam is a foaming cleanser, if so why are you using an astringent right afterwards? What skincare issues are you trying to address? You are double cleansing and likely dehydrating the skin, this may cause the stratus corneum to thicken which doesn't really make sense if you are going to follow a product that should exfoliate. IMO you might consider a gentler cleansing method followed by a lactic acid product as Grhawk suggests. |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:00 pm |
Since I am only applying glycolic acid at night, I'm not using sunscreen until the morning. The vivier cleanser doesn't foam much, and I am using the astringent afterwards because the vivier site says so.. The reason they recommend using the astringent afterwards is so regulate the pH of my skin after cleansing. It seems like some people are very pro toner, and some people think that they arent necessary. I'm not sure what my opinion really is yet. I'm very new at all of this. I'm assuming that if I use a cleanser that is at the correct pH to begin with, I won't need a toner.
I understand that the Neostrata glycolic acid lotion is too alkaline to utilize the full 10%. From what I saw, it seems like any glycolic acid product you can buy at a retail store in Canada has to be at a minimum pH of 3.5. At least that's what the Neostrata site says. So I figured it still had to be pretty effective. Maybe I was wrong. |
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22yrs old, oily t-zone, prone to breakouts - especially on my chin |
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:11 pm |
If the Vivier is a foaming cleanser you do not need to remove any additional oils or residues, and it may be counter-productive to use an astringent because the product may remove those integral to the skin barrier. Resetting the pH does not restore the skin's acid mantle because that is more than just acidic/ alkaline. As you say better to use a lotion cleanser that is ~5.5 or does not have a pH such as an oil.
I don't personally use toners because I prefer to use as few chemicals on my sensitive skin as possible, instead I remove my lotion cleanser with water and a muslin cloth. If I did use a toner I'd go for one based on lactic acid, because it is humectant (water attracting) and keratolytic (gently exfoliating) depending on the percentage, plus is naturally found in the skin. If I had sturdy skin and very clogged pores I might use a salicylic acid toner - point being I'd make my toner work double duty.
For a newbie to skincare you are asking some great questions/ making some great points!  |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:33 pm |
| Thank you so much Firefox! I find the science behind skincare really interesting. I always love reading your posts on EDS. My skincare journey started with my impulsive vivier purchase. Once I'm out of that, I'll be looking for a cleanser that has the proper pH, an exfoliator (I'm thinking either another glycolic acid, or lactic acid), a new moisturizer (something light, as I'm prone to milia anywhere on my face), and a physical sunscreen. Diana Yvonne products look very interesting. I like seeing as few ingredients as possible. I hope I'm on the right track! |
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22yrs old, oily t-zone, prone to breakouts - especially on my chin |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:10 am |
| CindyLouise wrote: |
Since I am only applying glycolic acid at night, I'm not using sunscreen until the morning. The vivier cleanser doesn't foam much, and I am using the astringent afterwards because the vivier site says so.. The reason they recommend using the astringent afterwards is so regulate the pH of my skin after cleansing. It seems like some people are very pro toner, and some people think that they arent necessary. I'm not sure what my opinion really is yet. I'm very new at all of this. I'm assuming that if I use a cleanser that is at the correct pH to begin with, I won't need a toner.
I understand that the Neostrata glycolic acid lotion is too alkaline to utilize the full 10%. From what I saw, it seems like any glycolic acid product you can buy at a retail store in Canada has to be at a minimum pH of 3.5. At least that's what the Neostrata site says. So I figured it still had to be pretty effective. Maybe I was wrong. |
Use the Rosehip cleanser also from Dianayvonne.com. It is low ph and does not contain any harsh chemicals. It is the only cleanser I will use. I am fairly certain that Diana will send you a free sample if you email her. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:22 am |
| Thanks for the suggestion grhawk. I have been looking for a new cleanser, and finding it pretty frustrating that nearly all companies don't disclose the pH of their products. Diana Yvonne definitely looks interesting, I'll try to get a sample and see how it goes. Thanks again! |
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22yrs old, oily t-zone, prone to breakouts - especially on my chin |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:29 am |
| CindyLouise wrote: |
| Thanks for the suggestion grhawk. I have been looking for a new cleanser, and finding it pretty frustrating that nearly all companies don't disclose the pH of their products. Diana Yvonne definitely looks interesting, I'll try to get a sample and see how it goes. Thanks again! |
You can also check the second link on the page I linked to. 
pH-Balance and Skin Cleansers
Because buzzwords like "pH-balanced" are common advertising tools in the health and beauty industry, it's easy to ignore them and purchase a product regardless of its pH. However, when it comes to skin cleansers, pH levels do make a difference.
Your skin has a pH level of about 5.5. Skin -- or at least the outermost layer of it -- is slightly acidic [source: University of California Newsroom]. The acidic layer helps your skin retain moisture and keeps germs out. To help maintain the skin's fatty protective layer, use a cleanser with a pH level similar to that of the skin itself. If you use a soap that's too alkaline, it will break up the acid in your skin, causing dryness.
The pH level of most skin cleansers is slightly higher than 5.5, so the cleanser can break down dirt and oil on your skin. However, soap -- especially bar soap -- typically has a pH level of 9 to 12, which is too high if you're trying to keep your skin moist. Cleansers with lower pH levels leave your skin intact instead of breaking down the fatty tissue [source: Draelos].
So, it must be important to use a skin cleanser that says it's pH-balanced, right? Yes and no. Most soap-free cleansers on the market today have balanced pH levels. Therefore, the words "pH-balanced" on a cleanser are more of a marketing ploy than anything else [source: Monroe].
Now that you're clear on what pH balanced means to you and your skin, you can be savvy in the skin care aisle. For more information on how pH affects your skin, take a look at the links on the following page.
http://health.howstuffworks.com/skin-care/cleansing/products/ph-balanced1.htm |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:56 am |
This was posted by MrsDowFire on this thread:
http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=30892
I found this information in case anyone else might be interested.
It was from the dianayvonne website:
The pH of Common Cleanser
The following list the pH of some of the more popular cleansers/soaps.
AHAVA Soaps 5.5
Alpha Hydrox Foaming Face Wash 6.1-6.5
Alpha Hydrox Optimum Series Moisturizing Cleanser 6.3-6.5
Beauty Without Cruelty Vitamin C Cleanser 6.0-6.5
Burt’s Bees Tomato, Carrot, and Lettuce soaps 10
Camay Soap 9.5
Camocare Gold Light Foaming Cleanser 6.5-7.0
Cellex-C Betaplex Cleanser 5.0-5.5
Cetaphil cleanser 6.7
Dermalogica Exfoliants: 3.4-3.9
Dermalogica The Bar 5.5
Dermalogica Dermal Clay Cleanser 6.2
Dial Soap (liquid and bar) 9.5
Dove Bar, Baby Dove Bar 7
Dr. Bonner Liquid Soaps 8
Earth Science Clarifying Facial Wash 5.0-5.5
Earth Science ADE Creamy Cleanser 5
Earth Science Apricot Facial Scrub Cream 5
Earth Science Aloe-Gel Cleanser Liquid 5
Ecco Bella Normal/Oily Cleanser 6.5-7.0
GlyTone Mild Cream Wash 3.4%GA, 3.5
GlyTone Mild Gel Wash 4.7% GA, 3.8
GlyTone Wipe Away Cleanser 7.8% GA, 3.8
Irish Spring Soap 9.5
Ivory Soap 9.5
Jevelle Magick Clear Gentle Apricot Scrub 5
Johnson & Johnson Head to Toe Baby Wash 6.5-7.0
Johnson & Johnson 5.5 5.5
Lever 2000 9
MD Forte Cleansers pH 3.8
MD Forte Facial Cleanser II 15%GA 3.8
MD Formulations Sensitive Skin Cleanser 4.4
MD Formulations Basic Facial Cleanser 5.5
MD Formulations Oily/Problem Cleanser 3.8
Neutrogena Deep Clean Facial Cleanser 3.8-4.6
Neutrogena Deep Clean Cream Cleanser 2.8-3.8
Neutrogena Deep Clean Cleansing Cloths N/A
Neutrogena Extra Gentle Cleanser 5.6-6.2
Neutrogena Extra Gentle Cleansing Bar 6.0-7.5
Neutrogena Facial Cleansing Bar Original Formula 8.7-9.2
Neutrogena Fresh Foaming Cleanser 6.2-6.9
Liquid Neutrogena 8.7-9.1
Neutrogena Pore Refining Cleanser 3.7-4.2
Neutrogena Cleansing Bar for Acne-Prone Skin 8.7-9.2
Neutrogena Oil-Free Acne Wash 3.6-4.4
Neutrogena Oil-Free Acne Wash Cream Cleanser 3.6-4.4
Neutrogena Oil-Free Acne Wash Foam Cleanser 3.5-4.2
Nutribiotic Non-soap skin cleansers 5.3-5.7
Olay Foaming Face Wash - 6.85-7.36
Olay Foaming Face Wash - Sensitive Skin 6.6 - 7.35
Olay Emollient Cleansing Lotion 6.0 - 7.2
Olay ADS Daily Renewal Cleanser 2.9 - 3.25
Olay ProVital Revitalizing Cleanser 2.9 - 3.25
Olay Daily Facials Normal/Dry 6.9 (when wet)
Olay Daily Facials Normal/Oily 7.6 (when wet)
Palmolive soap 10
Paula’s Choice (all formulations) 5.5
Physician's Choice pHaze1: Facial Wash 5%AHA 6
Physician's Choice pHaze1: Facial Wash oily/problem 7%AHA 5
Purpose Facial Cleanser 6.5-7.0 |
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I'LL SEE YOU ON THE DARKSIDE OF THE MOON.... |
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Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:31 pm |
| With my Vivier cleanser having a pH of 7, is it necessary to use a product afterwards to adjust the pH of my skin? Right now I'm using the Vivier deep cleaning astringent, with a pH of 4.5. I will be done the astringent before the cleanser. I was thinking about trying diluted ACV rather than spending another $45 on the astringent. |
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22yrs old, oily t-zone, prone to breakouts - especially on my chin |
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Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:03 am |
Acetic acid in vinegar will not give you the same beneficial effects as an AHA/ BHA toner, it is neither keratolytic nor humectant just risking irritation needlessly IMO. If you are interested in DIY purchase some pH test strips from eBay or a decent pharmacy. Check some of your hair products if you do, hair is also best served with acid pH.
You should not necessarily associate rich moisturisers with clogged pores, the larger saturated molecules found in some solid oils and butters are too large to get lodged in the pores but can be taken up directly into skin cells. Conversely many light textured unsaturated oils are highly comedogenic. Devita sunscreens have gentle ingredients lists inc. some anti-ageing actives, get positive reviews and can be used as combined moisturiser and sunscreen. The Rx Ultrasolar 50 is very light, the Solar Protective and the Body Block are apparently much dewier. Might be worth considering? |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:12 am |
| Quote: |
| Since I am only applying glycolic acid at night, I'm not using sunscreen until the morning. |
CindyLouise - It doesn't matter what time you're using AHA products, if you are using them at all you absolutely need to be using a sunscreen. Your skin is at much higher risk of developing skin cancer if you use AHA products without adequate skin protection, to say nothing of the excessive pigmentation and wrinkles you will get by exposing your sensitized skin to UV radiation. |
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23yo, upper lip melasma and sudden onset moderate comedonal acne. PC Clear 2% SA toner, Nia24 Skin Strengthening Complex, Finacea (AM), MaMa Lotion 20% (PM) |
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Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:55 am |
| Dietgrrl, I am using SPF during the day. I am just not applying it right before bed after the glycolic acid. |
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22yrs old, oily t-zone, prone to breakouts - especially on my chin |
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Tue May 01, 2012 12:00 pm |
Just wondering, how long do the protective effects of Rx Ultrasolar 50 last? What if combined with a Titanium Dioxide powder?
| Firefox7275 wrote: |
Acetic acid in vinegar will not give you the same beneficial effects as an AHA/ BHA toner, it is neither keratolytic nor humectant just risking irritation needlessly IMO. If you are interested in DIY purchase some pH test strips from eBay or a decent pharmacy. Check some of your hair products if you do, hair is also best served with acid pH.
You should not necessarily associate rich moisturisers with clogged pores, the larger saturated molecules found in some solid oils and butters are too large to get lodged in the pores but can be taken up directly into skin cells. Conversely many light textured unsaturated oils are highly comedogenic. Devita sunscreens have gentle ingredients lists inc. some anti-ageing actives, get positive reviews and can be used as combined moisturiser and sunscreen. The Rx Ultrasolar 50 is very light, the Solar Protective and the Body Block are apparently much dewier. Might be worth considering? |
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Tue May 01, 2012 1:38 pm |
| fitgineer wrote: |
Just wondering, how long do the protective effects of Rx Ultrasolar 50 last? What if combined with a Titanium Dioxide powder?
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According to the packaging you should "Reapply after swimming, excessive perspiration or anytime after towel drying". |
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Sensitivity, forehead pigmentation & elevens, nose & chin clogged pores. Topicals: Aloe vera, squalane, lactic acid, Myfawnie KinNiaNag HG: Weleda calendula, Lanolips, Guinot masque essentiel, Flexitol Naturals, Careprost. Gadgets: Vaughter dermarollers, Lightstim. |
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