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Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:29 pm  |
Hey everyone its great to be back again. I've been absent for about month studying for a test, but I am glad to be back.
So anyways since Ive been gone there have been two things that I have been looking to increase in my routine 1) anti-inflammatory and skin barrier ingredients 2) anti-elastase ingredients, and I just wanted to share my thoughts on some of them and hear what you all use.
First is anti-inflammatories ingredients and skin strengthening ingredients like ceramides, cholestorol, and fatty acids. I had the best conversation with Bethany (Hey Bethany  ) about an article stating the importance of these two areas of skin care that get overlooked in terms of anti-aging. The article stated what I think is very true that inflammations is one of the biggest culprit for aging skin and instead of focusing on harsh skin treatments all the time like peels, lasers etc that cause inflammation/irritation (inflammation sets off immune response that is damages skin cells) we should focus on nourishing our skin by making sure to incorporate skin strengthening ingredients/inflamm ingredients along with say retinoids etc.
Anyways its been hard to fit in other products into an already packed regimen but two products I have fallen in love with are Md Formulations Antioxdiant pray and Dove Sensitive Essentials face moisturizer. The MD Antioxidant Spray has amazing skin barrier ingredients and anti inflamm ingredients all in a very light spray so it has been very easy to incorporate into a routine. In fact I like using it after washing my face and then waiting 30 min before a retinoid to decrease inflammation from the tretinoin. The Dove Sensitive Essentials lotion is another favorite moisturizer bc it has all the ingredients for healthy skin like ceramides, cholesterol, fatty acids, and anti-inflam ingredietns like bisabol, licorice extract. It has the same ingredients as a derm favorite ATOPALM but at a quarter of the price and a lot more product!
The second other product I was looking to incorporate and am most interested in adding to my regimen is CF Phloretin and using it before CE Ferulic. I was looking for a product to prevent elastin breakdown and phloretin is supposed to be a potent anti-elastase ingredient that helps skin remain supple. There are many products that reduce/prevent collagen breakdown but its been harder to find how to prevent elastin from being depleted in the skin.
So has anyone tried CF Phloretin yet or used the combo with CE Ferulic? Also has anyone heard of other products that have shown anti-elastase properties? I feel like its one area of aging prevention that is missing in my routine.
Good to be back! |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:59 pm |
Hi, Ocean14.
Relastin is the only cream I have heard of that has shown some promise in boosting elastin. I just bought the Relastin eye cream, but have not opened it yet.
There is a reference to a clinical trial and some testimonials from well-known dermatologists on their website:
http://www.relastin.com/products/1-Relastin-Skin-Revitalizer |
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Female, 40, Norway. Normal/dry skin, starting to see signs of aging. Staples: Glycolic acid cleanser, SkinCeuticals Phloretin CF, Revaleskin, NIA24. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:33 pm |
The Obagi Elastiderm is supposed to help with replenishing elastin. I only used it for 6 weeks, but I did not see a difference in that time.
Ocean14, I have used the Skinceuticals Phloretin and CEF. I first used the Phloretin before the CEF, but that really left my skin very tacky for a long time. I tried the Phloretin by itself and it is very drying. Now I have been trying what Kassy suggested 2 drops of Phloretin mixed with 3 drops of CEF. It is ok, but I really still prefer the CEF texture over the Phloretin. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:10 pm |
| I use the CF Phloretin by itself and it is fine. I have oily skin and it works just fine for me. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 7:32 pm |
Hi there...we missed you!!! 
Thanks for sharing some skin barrier options that are affordable!
As far as elastin, Relastin has gotten rave reviews from some top dermatologists (like Leslie Baumann), but I haven't looked into it any further.
Dr. Baumann said:
| Quote: |
...Sun exposure, cigarette smoke, and stress can all deplete the skin of its elastin - and its resiliency. Until now, no product or procedure has been proven to replace this crucial component of healthy skin. But Relastin, a new eye cream, prompts elastin production, which in turn restores springiness to skin and diminishes fine lines and wrinkles. In a snap test - which determines how long it takes the skin to bounce back after being pulled - under eye skin treated with Relastin recovered more quickly. Doctors have also seen some evidence that Relastin improves puffiness and dark circles and may even tighten hand and abdominal skin as well.
http://www.relastin.com/pages/16-dermatologists#jessica |
http://www.relastin.com/ |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:42 pm |
Bethany- Just in with both feet now that they have both eye and face products. Go to the website. I keep saying I am done searching. You know that will never be the truth  |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:48 pm |
Bethany- First I meant "Jump"..........
also Nimue very interesting and thank you. I am trying to simplify my routine so I think I will stick with the CF with my oily skin. I know I get E in other products. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:07 pm |
Hey everyone thanks for all the responses. I went on the Melbourne Dermatology Site and found this info on phloretin.
Phloretin has been shown to inhibit nearly 80% of the elastin destroying enzyme elastase, although it is not the only bioflavonoid to show anti-elastase activity.
Potent antioxidant effects inhibiting age spots and activation of cell renewal have been demonstrated by phloretin.
Phloretin prevents the entrance of glucose into skin cells and therefore prevents glycogen formation and produces glycogen depletion.
Phloretin may also have antifungal, antibacterial, antiviral, and anti-inflammatory uses.
They also have an article about what composes the dermal matrix and the role of elastin:
In molecular biology, elastase is an enzyme from the class of proteases, or peptidases, that break down the protein elastin, an elastic fiber that, together with collagen, determines the mechanical properties of connective tissue, providing skin which is firm, full and taut to a greater or lesser degree depending on its quality and quantity.
Elastin is also an important constituent of lung and vein tissues where, as in the skin, it is subject to repeat expansion and contraction.
The primary structural components of the dermal matrix are collagen fibres, elastin fibres and glycosaminoglycans.
All three of these decrease and deteriorate in quality and quantity due to intrinsic and avoidable extrinsic factors to give the appearance of "aging."
Although rarely used to optimal effect, an array of stimulants and protectants of collagen, and to a far lesser extent, glycosaminoglycans are available. [Refer Mature Skin Analysis — Firmness and Elasticity of Healthy vs. Unhealthy Mature Skin.]
Elastin remains an orphan, with no widely available solutions for its protection or replacement.
Accordingly, while you may potentially increase your skin's volume to give it an appearance of greater fullness, you cannot regain its ability to recoil and remain inherently taut as it was in youth.
As if to add insult to injury, elastin production more or less stops by the end of the teenage years, long before most will consider its protection.
Some findings suggest zinc may benefit elastin, however useful forms and concentrations of zinc are absent from most skincare.
Recently, zinc sulphate was removed from the revised Skinceuticals C E Ferulic Formulation although marketing communicates generally enhanced skin protection when compared with the original C + E Formulation.
Unfortunately both very low and very high concentrations of zinc have been seen to increase elastase activity (increasing the rate of elastin breakdown), such topical and systemic zinc supplementation is problematic.
Thiotaine and a chemical compound found in Gernetic Anti-Radical Eye Gel may help prevent elastase activity.
To avoid loss of high quality elastin, at minimum don't smoke, always confer optimal photoprotection for your skin and avoid rough or unnecessary treatment — this includes facials with massage which subject the skin to movement while providing no considerable or lasting benefit.
http://www.treatment-skincare.com/Active-Ingredients/Phloretin.html |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:18 pm |
| rileygirl wrote: |
| Ocean14, I have used the Skinceuticals Phloretin and CEF. I first used the Phloretin before the CEF, but that really left my skin very tacky for a long time. I tried the Phloretin by itself and it is very drying. Now I have been trying what Kassy suggested 2 drops of Phloretin mixed with 3 drops of CEF. It is ok, but I really still prefer the CEF texture over the Phloretin. |
Thanks Rileygirl for sharing your experience with using both CE Ferulic and CF Phloretin. Thats sounds like a good idea to use 2 drops phloretin and 3 drops of CEF. I love the slightly moisturizing texture of CEF so I doubt I could use only Phloretin which many say is drying due to the alcohol present.
Hey Nimue,
Thanks for the link. Looks like shes using the combo as well. I like how she posted her skin care regimen.
| platinumrose wrote: |
| I am trying to simplify my routine so I think I will stick with the CF with my oily skin. |
Me too Platinumrose! However everytime I try I get excited about another product and I feel like it HAS to find its way into my skin care routine. BTW do u mind if I ask where you purchase the CF Phloretin from? |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:23 pm |
| Ocean14 wrote: |
Recently, zinc sulphate was removed from the revised Skinceuticals C E Ferulic Formulation although marketing communicates generally enhanced skin protection when compared with the original C + E Formulation.
Unfortunately both very low and very high concentrations of zinc have been seen to increase elastase activity (increasing the rate of elastin breakdown), such topical and systemic zinc supplementation is problematic.
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Interesting...Zinc is a major component in the Relastin line. But I would assume that they have the amount right if their clinicals show an increase in elastin. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:25 pm |
| Quote: |
Hi there...we missed you!!!
Thanks for sharing some skin barrier options that are affordable!
As far as elastin, Relastin has gotten rave reviews from some top dermatologists (like Leslie Baumann), but I haven't looked into it any further.
Dr. Baumann said:
Quote:
...Sun exposure, cigarette smoke, and stress can all deplete the skin of its elastin - and its resiliency. Until now, no product or procedure has been proven to replace this crucial component of healthy skin. But Relastin, a new eye cream, prompts elastin production, which in turn restores springiness to skin and diminishes fine lines and wrinkles. In a snap test - which determines how long it takes the skin to bounce back after being pulled - under eye skin treated with Relastin recovered more quickly. Doctors have also seen some evidence that Relastin improves puffiness and dark circles and may even tighten hand and abdominal skin as well.
http://www.relastin.com/pages/16-dermatologists#jessica |
Hey there Bethany!
You know what I completely forgot about the article we discussed earlier about elastin regeneration using retinoids. Here it is for others who might not have seen it. Its just another reason to love tretinoin!
Loss of elastic fibers causes skin wrinkles in sun-damaged human skin.Lee JY, Kim YK, Seo JY, Choi CW, Hwang JS, Lee BG, Chang IS, Chung JH.
Skin Research Institute, Amorepacific Corporation/R&D Center, Yongin-si, Gyeonggi-do, Republic of Korea.
BACKGROUND: Although wrinkling is the most obvious sign of aged skin, the detailed pathomechanism of wrinkle development has not been elucidated. OBJECTIVES: In this study, we investigated the role of elastic fibers in the formation of skin wrinkles. METHODS: Loss of elastic fibers was measured quantitatively in the facial skins of subjects representing seven decades, and then compared with wrinkle severities. We also investigated whether topical retinoic acid treatment to photoaged human skin can restore destroyed elastic fiber, and the correlation between wrinkle improvement with increase in elastic fibers in RA-treated facial skin. RESULTS: We found a significant correlation between decreases in the length, width, number and total area of oxytalan fibers and wrinkle severity. Furthermore, we found that topical application of retinoic acid (0.025%) to chronically photodamaged skin regenerated and restored elastic fibers, and that there was a significant positive correlation between the amount of newly regenerated elastic fiber and the wrinkle improvement caused by retinoic acid. CONCLUSIONS: Our results provide an objective insight into the role of elastic fibers in skin wrinkle formation by providing a quantitative correlation between changes in oxytalan fibers and the severity of skin wrinkling.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18201872 |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:31 pm |
| Quote: |
| Interesting...Zinc is a major component in the Relastin line. But I would assume that they have the amount right if their clinicals show an increase in elastin. |
Yea I found that part interesting as well but I too would assume they had the correct amount as well due to the clinical trials and plus the fact respected derms like Dr. Baumann recommend the product. There might be differences in the types of molecules that zinc is complexed with for example Relastin used zinc citrate and the article above stated for example Skinceuticals used zinc sulphate. |
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Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:43 pm |
| Ocean14 wrote: |
Hey there Bethany!
You know what I completely forgot about the article we discussed earlier about elastin regeneration using retinoids. Here it is for others who might not have seen it. Its just another reason to love tretinoin!
Loss of elastic fibers causes skin wrinkles in sun-damaged human skin.Lee JY, Kim YK, Seo JY, Choi CW, Hwang JS, Lee BG, Chang IS, Chung JH.
Skin Research Institute, Amorepacific Corporation/R&D Center, Yongin-si, Gyeonggi-do, Republic of Korea.
BACKGROUND: Although wrinkling is the most obvious sign of aged skin, the detailed pathomechanism of wrinkle development has not been elucidated. OBJECTIVES: In this study, we investigated the role of elastic fibers in the formation of skin wrinkles. METHODS: Loss of elastic fibers was measured quantitatively in the facial skins of subjects representing seven decades, and then compared with wrinkle severities. We also investigated whether topical retinoic acid treatment to photoaged human skin can restore destroyed elastic fiber, and the correlation between wrinkle improvement with increase in elastic fibers in RA-treated facial skin. RESULTS: We found a significant correlation between decreases in the length, width, number and total area of oxytalan fibers and wrinkle severity. Furthermore, we found that topical application of retinoic acid (0.025%) to chronically photodamaged skin regenerated and restored elastic fibers, and that there was a significant positive correlation between the amount of newly regenerated elastic fiber and the wrinkle improvement caused by retinoic acid. CONCLUSIONS: Our results provide an objective insight into the role of elastic fibers in skin wrinkle formation by providing a quantitative correlation between changes in oxytalan fibers and the severity of skin wrinkling.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18201872 |
Guess what...I forgot that too, so thanks for the reminder!
I haven't been able to use my Retin A for the last 4 weeks or so due to some dermarolling reactions, so I am looking forward to starting it back up next week. |
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No longer answering PM's due to numerous weird messages. |
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:18 am |
| Ocean14- I buy on ebay small vials for freshness. |
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:43 am |
| Let me know if you try the Phloretin mixed with CEF, Ocean14. I would like your take on it. I love the moisturizing effect of the CEF, myself, so we sound like similar skin types in that respect! |
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:00 am |
| Does anyone know the ingredients to Phloretin? I'm curious how much alcohol it has. I'm surprised the Skinceuticals website does not list ingredients. |
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Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:53 am |
^
Got the complete list:
Aqua
Dipropylene Glycol
Alcohol Denat
Ascorbic Acid
Butylene Gycol
Triethyl Citrate
Phloretin
Ferulic Acid |
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 1:39 pm |
I'm wondering if anyone has used Relastin. If so, have you found that it helped with facial sag?
In researching elastin this afternoon - after following the discussion about facial exercise - I found a couple of interesting articles.
This is a patent, so I don't know how much validity it has, but it mentions testing of vitamin C and its derivatives for skin elastin synthesis. I found it interesting that MAP did a better job.
| Quote: |
| It is further observed that for the tests reported herein, the promoting activity of the synthesis of elastin is maximum (+171%) in the case of the cultures treated at 150μM of magnesium ascorbyl phosphate, which is remarkable, while this activity is at the minimum of 85% in the case of the cultures treated at 25 μM of sodium ascorbate, which is also exceptional. It is therefore demonstrated that the use of ascorbic acid or one of its derivatives, in particular a salt or an ester thereof, enables promoting the synthesis of elastin by the fibroblasts in a significant and particularly unexpected manner. |
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5801192.html
The other article found that an extract of Zingiber officinale (L.) Rose (ginger) inhibits the UV-induced decrease in skin elasticity and prevents or improves wrinkle formation in skin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17968573 |
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:18 pm |
http://www.smartskincare.com/skinbiology/skinbiology_elastin.html
This article says, in a study, Retinoic acid was shown to increase elastin synthesis in chick embryonic vascular smooth muscle cells up to 2.8-fold, but retinol had no such effect.
LightStim web site says their anti-aging light stimulates the production of both collagen and elastin. |
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:46 pm |
right now I am trying a cream called
Vitacreme B12 , that claims to help with skin elasticity
from their website
Pharmacological studies have shown that, when applied by percutaneous method, vitamin B12 increases the elasticity of the skin by promoting the reorganisation of the network of elastin fibres and the production of thin and even collagen fibres. This action has the overall effect of 'rejuvenating' the skin. These studies, which used Vitacreme B12, found that the vitamin promotes:
- Very significant reductions in the number of wrinkles and folds in the skin. - Significant improvement in skin elasticity - Correction of dry skin - Decreases in skin folds These clinical studies were conducted in Switzerland and France. The principal actions of Vitacreme B12 are: - Stimulation and renewal of the skin cells - Correction of dry skin and deep skin hydration - Prevention of premature wrinkles - Diminishment of existing wrinkles and skin folds - Relief after prolonged exposure to the sun and accelerated skin healing - Smoothing or reducing visibility of new and old scars - Relief of chapped skin
http://blog.taragana.com/pr/vitacreme-b12-vitamin-creme-proven-to-revitalize-skin-4181/ |
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:00 pm |
| nibn wrote: |
right now I am trying a cream called
Vitacreme B12 , that claims to help with skin elasticity
from their website
Pharmacological studies have shown that, when applied by percutaneous method, vitamin B12 increases the elasticity of the skin by promoting the reorganisation of the network of elastin fibres and the production of thin and even collagen fibres. This action has the overall effect of 'rejuvenating' the skin. These studies, which used Vitacreme B12, found that the vitamin promotes:
- Very significant reductions in the number of wrinkles and folds in the skin. - Significant improvement in skin elasticity - Correction of dry skin - Decreases in skin folds These clinical studies were conducted in Switzerland and France. The principal actions of Vitacreme B12 are: - Stimulation and renewal of the skin cells - Correction of dry skin and deep skin hydration - Prevention of premature wrinkles - Diminishment of existing wrinkles and skin folds - Relief after prolonged exposure to the sun and accelerated skin healing - Smoothing or reducing visibility of new and old scars - Relief of chapped skin
http://blog.taragana.com/pr/vitacreme-b12-vitamin-creme-proven-to-revitalize-skin-4181/ |
How long have you been using this nibn and how are you liking it?
ETA: There is another product that is supposed to increase elastin fiber content, Ethocyn. |
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:54 pm |
Rileygirl,
I was reading about ethocyn. Does anyone know much about it? Are there products that contain this?
I also did the "skin pinch" test for elastin: Pinch the skin on the back of your hand, let go and see how long it takes to bounce back or lie flat. Youthful skin will bounce back immediately while "mature" skin will take several seconds. My skin was definitely mature! 
Info found atwww.smartskincare.com |
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50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:11 pm |
| kims wrote: |
Rileygirl,
I was reading about ethocyn. Does anyone know much about it? Are there products that contain this?
I also did the "skin pinch" test for elastin: Pinch the skin on the back of your hand, let go and see how long it takes to bounce back or lie flat. Youthful skin will bounce back immediately while "mature" skin will take several seconds. My skin was definitely mature!
Info found atwww.smartskincare.com |
I have that "mature" skin, too, kims!
Regarding the Ethocyn. Here is the website.
http://www.ethocyninfo.com/skinphysi.php
I did use that product, and did not have results, but I would have to try and find out how long I used the product for. It has been a while ago, and I don't remember much about it! |
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:19 pm |
Thanks, Rileygirl! Guess you took the test too.
Well, knowing how it is with both of our skin, if it didn't work for you, it probably won't work for me either! |
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50 Is definitely NOT nifty!! |
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