Skin Biology's Copper Peptides
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free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:29 pm

I’m a happy user of Skin Biology’s Copper Peptides (CPs) and have been asked to provide some info on them since they’ve been discussed in several different threads – just peppered around. This might put it all in one place for easier reference.

Copper Peptides are great skin remodeling products and have many studies behind them supporting their claims of: Rebuilds aged skin (tightens skin, improves elasticity and firmness, reduces fine lines, wrinkles, photodamage, and hyperpigmentation). Stimulates wound healing. Improves human hair growth and hair transplant success. Act as anti-inflammatories on irritated skin. Many of the studies provide exciting information about CPs. You can read about them here .

I’ve used CPs for 2 years, but took a 6 month break during ’09 while I tried another skin care line (unsuccessfully). When I started using CPs in ’08, I did a lot of research on them since there were both good and bad reviews on them. After a lot of reading, I felt *most* of the negative reviews were from people who either didn’t give the CPs a long enough time for a trial (they do take patience) or went too fast with them (they are very strong) and got some uglies. There are some reports of users who had some negative effects that lasted a long time or who so no improvement, so they do not work for everybody. It is very important to move slowly using CPs.

Moving on – I’d like to give some reviews of the CPs that I’ve tried. Skin Biology offers samples with the purchase of their products, so I’ve tried quite a few of them. CPs are also offered here at EDS, at NCN Skincare and at Diana Yvonne.com.

I have oily skin that tends to break out occasionally. I had very few *fine* lines or wrinkles on my face before I started(probably due to my oily skin and use of retinoids for so long). My concerns were mostly a ‘red’ appearance (from retinoids), some sagging from loss of elasticity, hooded eyelids that looked like they needed an upper bleph; a few wrinkles from expressions on my forehead, N/L’s and crow’s feet area. I had already started getting Botox for my 11’s and crow’s feet and had been investigating fillers for the N/L’s and a bleph.

Once I started using CPs, I ceased needing to investigate the need for the fillers and bleph. My elasticity improved enough that the N’Ls diminished quite a bit. Also, the skin on my upper eye lid firmed up immensely! I use to have a crepe paper texture to the skin there and the skin would drag when I applied eye shadow. If I pinched the skin – it would stay pinched for quite a few seconds. All this improved with the CPs within about 4 months or so. The flakiness and redness from the retinoids also diminished a lot. I have also had some scars (acne type ) fill in smooth with the use of CPs – simply amazing stuff for that. I even had a blemish of some sort (had been there for about 8 yrs) disappear with the use of CPs. A dr had even told me he could only remove that with surgery and the CPs did it with NO scar(it took some work – ie: exfoliatives and bathroom SX, though). Repeat – NO SCAR!

Overall, the texture and tone of my skin made a significant improvement. It was enough that I started to get carded in ’08 (I was 49 at the time). When I asked what the age requirement was – I found out that they had to card if they thought the customer was younger than 35. (!!!! That fed my ego). I also started using the CPs on my neck and found the texture there improved a lot too (still has some more to go). I have started using the CPs elsewhere (hands, body, for suntanning…). They have a product for just about any place on your body- LOL

I don’t consider myself an expert on CPs, but I may be able to point you in the right direction. Please add what you like about CPs that you have used so others may be able to decide what they should try. Just remember, they are strong remodeling agents and should be treated with respect. Also, you will get the best results if you add some sort of exfoliative (an AHA, BHA, manual or needling) to help ‘bring out the old’ skin and to let the CPs ‘bring in the new’ (SB’s marketing theme, not mine). CPs are called Skin Remodeling Copper Peptides (SRCP for short) for the action that they provide. I have found that they DO do that – esp on some newer scars I have had. I had a nasty blemish from a cyst last year (my experiment with that other skin care line) that looked like it was going to leave a huge depression. It filled in smoother and more poreless than the surrounding skin after I treated it repeatedly with CPs (mainly the SC2X). A few other scars left over from that experiment did not get treated right away and are noticeably depressed (in my mag mirror). I have had to work harder at getting those fixed since it takes using exfoliatives and repeated apps of CPs to get the skin filled in. It is coming along, slowly but surely. I see improvements every week and it has been 4 months since I started trying (I said it takes patience).

Sorry for the long post - will split up the rest for you from now on

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:34 pm

I want to add some additional information that I saved Oh-So-Long-Ago (when I first started my research on CPs). EDS has some awesome members and I would like to thank Molly (who may no longer participate) for what she shared:

COPPER PEPTIDES (contributed by Molly) 10-22-06 EDS

Copper peptides are always naturally present in the skin and there are higher levels of it when the skin has been damaged which triggers repair. Products containing Copper Peptides (CPs) are a way of introducing this function topically and using the natural process of healing to accelerate skin renewal. In tests copper peptides have been shown to; remove damaged proteins and collagen and stimulate the production of new GAGs (water holding proteins), elastin and collagen. CPs are also both anti-inflammatory and a potent anti-oxidant so skin improvements should be achieved without the kind of skin barrier irritation typically experienced when using retinoids or AHAs. The long-term result should be thicker, firmer skin with better moisture retention and (maybe) a reduction in wrinkles. This process is often referred to as ‘remodeling’.

What are they used for?
Primarily anti-aging, but also scar reduction and sometimes mole reduction or elimination. Some users recommend them just for healing after peels and microdermabrasion.

Product confusion!!! Which to use?
There are two types of copper peptide used in skincare products which causes some confusion; First generation CPs which are used in most products including Osmotics and Neutrogena and second generation CPs which are only used in Skinbio’s products and they have slightly different properties (so see note below about what you can use them with). Both were invented by Doctor Pickart who first worked for Procyte and then set up Skinbio (www.skinbio.com). More peer reviewed tests have been carried out on the ‘first generation’ CPs, but the products which use them have lower percentages than were used in those tests. The second generation CPs (Skinbio’s) only have tests behind them to prove healing not anti-aging so we can only assume that these will reduce wrinkles, but they do have the same percentages of the active in them.

What can’t you use them with
First generation CPs (e.g.Neova/Neutrogena) are not stable when used with acids so you cannot combine them with AHAs, BHAs, Retin A etc.

CPs of both kinds cannot be applied to the skin at the same time as Vitamin C because Vitamin C is neutralized by copper, (but only on the surface of the skin not once it has absorbed and become part of the skin matrix. In fact both copper and Vitamin C are naturally present in the skin at the same time.) A lot of users do combine CPs and Vitamin C by using one in the evening and the other in the morning.

How do you use them?
They can be used AM (as they do not make you sun sensitive) or PM, or both. It’s best to start with products with low concentrations until your skin is used to it. You can layer Skinbio’s CPs with acids (acids first then CPs) or Retinoids (retinoids first then CPs) and many other actives to speed up renewal.

Warning: Skinbio has some extra strong products – Tri-reduction, SuperCP serum, Supercop cream and Supercop X 2 which can be highly irritating and should only be used after months of use of the lower level products.

How long until I see results
A lot of people experience a glow and generally healthier skin very quickly down to the repair of the skin barrier and CP’s anti-oxidant properties, but to see signs of renewed proteins, increased moisturisation and collagen you should give it 3 months at least.

Problems
Some people experience ‘the uglies’ where people get fine lines and sagging skin at some point during use. There’s no agreement about the cause and it seems to particularly afflict people in the eye area. One theory puts this down to irritation from using too much too quickly or general overuse, another that some individuals might be hyper-sensitive to copper and finally that in some individuals the damaged proteins and collagen are being removed but for some reason the skin function does not replace these quickly enough . Some people carry on using albeit more slowly and ‘the uglies’ vanish, others find continued use doesn’t sort out their problem.

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:43 pm

Thanks for detailed information.

My skin is very similar to yours. I think I will write the mfg for suggestions on where to start. The SB are reasonably price IMO. I only have one product but it does work. (SB Sebum Be Gone. reviewed)

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:49 pm

Hi Autumn - it funny that you like the Sebum Be Gone. That one doesn't do much for my hyper-oily skin. Oh well

I do have some information that might help you decide where to start:

Strength of CPs: (from weakest to strongest)

• Super GHK-Copper Cream & Serum -Very, Very Mild ; Ideal for very sensitive skin. Can be used all over the face as well as around the eye area:
• Night Eyes Premier Very Mild: Ideal for skin around the eyes alone, a cream
• CP Night Eyes- Mild: Next step up to use around the eyes after Night Eyes Premier, a cream
• Body Lotion Mild; cream; no added fragrance (not a great smell either)
• Day Cover Mild: Facial Sun’screen’ with a small amt of TiO2 and loaded with antioxidants
• CP Serum Moderate, good on oily skin; serum based (thin)
• Protect & Restore #2 – Classic Moderate, good on oily skin, a cream
• Protect & Restore #3 – with Retinol Moderate, good on dry skin; a cream
• Trireduction with Retinol Strong, good on drier skin; a cream
• P&R for Breasts, Nipples, and Décolletage; Strong, good on sensitive skin; also works well on the neck area; a cream
• BioHeal Strong, meant for very sensitive or irritated skin: contains camphor and menthol as soothing agents;a cream
- Skin Signals Strong, good on acne prone skin; newest CP that has added peptides from enzymatically hydrolyzed elastin and collagen. Very thin (no thickening agents)- thinner than CP and Super CP serums.
• Super CP Serum – strong ; water based serum; takes a while for skin to adjust (work up to it with weaker CPs)
• Super Cop Cream Very Strong; cream based. Definitely need to work up to using this one. Spot treat best use, but some skin can handle it all over.
• Super Cop Cream 2X- Extra Strength Very, Very Strong: Best used for spot treating scars only

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:00 pm

Foxe - I'm so delighted you started this thread - honestly it's long overdue and You're right most information has been peppered around helter skelter. I'm glad we have a place for it all to land and actually answer questions and share information about this product.

I currently use skin signals every other night and I'm real happy with it so far as it seems to tighten the skin. I particularly love the idea of restructuring the skin. I have not had uglies.

I am like you in that I started with CP's a few years ago and was doing fine with them but some bad press here on EDS made me rethink (and for no good reason at all). I stopped using them. I think it was Foxe who encouraged me back and then jj Beachum came along and theat clinched the deal.

I'd like to ask Foxe a few questions as I am interested in the incorporation of (more) CP's in my routine.

I think many here would find it helpful to know:

What kind of routine do I use and how do you dilute CPs?
I know water can be used - I posted a dilution schedule I found somewhere but I'm interested in your viewpoints here.

I would also like to know if you use CP's on the body - lotions, suntanning, etc.

Thanks for all of your help.

sis

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:18 pm

Hi sis - I can help answer a few questions.

For my routine, this is how I did it.
You can change this up to fit your schedule better. The important part about using CPs successfully is to use them with exfoliatives and to use a wait time between applications or to use your exfoliative at the opposite end of the day from the CPs. Also, if you use a topical Vitamin C, separate the C from the CPs for 12 hours (I will do 8 with no problem).

Cleanse – use a gentle pH balanced cleanser. pH is important if you include a low pH acid based exfoliative
Exfoliate – apply a BHA or an AHA product and then wait for it to work (about 20 minutes) You may use this in the evening or in the morning depending on your schedule. You may also alternate use in the evening if you wish with you CPs. You can be flexible with how you use these – experiment and find the best routine for YOU.
Treat – apply CPs about 20-30minutes after an exfoliator.
Moisturize – apply a biological healing oil like Emu Oil or Squalane oil. These oils have lipids very similar to human sebum and because of that they are readily accepted by our skin and sink in really well. Because of this, putting them on TOP of CPs will enhance the effect of them by pushing in the CPs. You can also put them under the CPs if the CPs is too strong for you. Do it this way until your skin is use to the CPs.

I tend to do this in the evenings. I actually use a retinoid for my ‘exfoliator’, but will alternate using a BHA with the retinoid once in a while. I think the best way to do this is actually alternating one night with the use of an exfoliator and the next night the CPs. This is a slow way to use them, but is a very gentle approach too. I have used CPs twice per day for spot treating scars with really good results.

I also do use the Suntanning Lotion and the Body Lotion during the summer and also the Nail Peptide and Foot Cream (can't remember the name). I bought the Folligen for my DH and have used that for my thinning eyebrows and a thinning widow's peak (does work). The nail and foot cream are awesome too.

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:22 pm

Diluting CPs
When first starting CPs, slower is better – especially if you have sensitive skin. I used this method diluting the CP serum with water (and subsequently – stronger CPs, too, as I introduced them):

Week 1 – 4 drops CP/4 drops H2O
Week 3 – 5 drops CP/3 drops H2O
Week 5 – 6 drops CP/2 drops H2O
Week 7 – 7 drops CP/1 drop H2O
Week 9 – 8 drops CP undiluted

Using water is the way to dilute the serums, but to dilute the creams – either use less of them, put emu oil on under them, or alternate days to start. Once your skin is use to the CPs, you should have no problem using them full strength.

Occasionally I experienced ‘uglies’ (usually looser skin or some unexpected wrinkles due to the remodeling process) when I moved too fast with the CPs. I would back off of them for a little bit, just applying some Emu oil perhaps, and the uglies would go away. Slow is important. I no longer experience any uglies, even with the strongest CPs. It did take some time to get use to the strongest of them, but no problems now.

I would always dilute the stronger CPs when I moved up in strength too. And, I would find the change would cause me some ‘uglies’ along the way. Those always went away, thankfully, with continued use of the CPs. It seems the process of the CPs – the skin remodeling process – was right in the middle of working, and I happened to have pushed it too far when I moved up in strength. But, continuing the use of the CPs just continued the Skin Remodeling, so my uglies would go away.

You're lucky sis, that you didn't get any uglies. Did you happen to dilute them? What CPs did you start with a couple of years ago (since the Skin Signals just came out last summer)

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:28 pm

foxe, do you dilute the skin signals, as well?

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:32 pm

rileygirl wrote:

foxe, do you dilute the skin signals, as well?

I never did - didn't need to as I had already worked up to a much stronger CP (SC2X). The Skin Signals is between the CP Serum and the Super CP Serum in strength of CPs (but acts differently with the added elastin and collagen.)

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:06 pm

Thanks Foxe - I hope you won't mind answering a few more questions.

I started out with CP serum and worked up to Super CP (no diluting) and also used SuperCop (diluted this) at times. At first I used maybe 2-3X a week to start and worked up to every other night.

When I started back with the skin signals I did not dilute this.

Let me know if I'm following you right Foxe - Do you use the retin a followed by CP's one night and then an exfoliator but no CP's the next?

At this point I'm wondering is it best to use every night if you can for best results?

Do you always put Emu oil over the CP's? Does it have to be the one Dr. Pickart sells?

Regarding C serum - does the C negate the CP's or do the CP's negate the C?
I know it's supposed to be 12 hours between so what do you mean by ...you do 8 with no problem?

Do you have a specific cleanser that you like?

The nail peptide - What does this seem to do for you?

I guess that's enough for now. Thanks for your help.

free skin care · Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:59 pm

foxe: I wonder if I've been using the Neutrogena Visibly Firm serum for some time with no problems (alternate days), should I be able to use the CP serum or should I proceed via the GHK? I'm not sure if the Neutrogena has the same amount of 1st generation copper peptides as the GHK or not.

Thanks for your time and patience in answering questions on this thread.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:18 am

Dr. Pickart told someone on the skin biology forum to use the Trireduction cream as a moisturizer, so I've been thinking about getting it to put over Skin Signals (which I use every other night). Do you think that's overkill? I really don't care for the emu oil or in fact any oil, so I've been looking for a moisturizer to use with it.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 5:27 am

Hi Foxe,

Great to see a veteran CP serum user like you to share with us your advice & experience.

I have bought a 50ml of Super GHK Copper serum; do you think I can move up straight to Skin Signals (diluted as you suggested) once I use up the GHK?

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:16 am

sister sweets wrote:

At this point I'm wondering is it best to use every night if you can for best results?

Do you always put Emu oil over the CP's? Does it have to be the one Dr. Pickart sells?

Regarding C serum - does the C negate the CP's or do the CP's negate the C?
I know it's supposed to be 12 hours between so what do you mean by ...you do 8 with no problem?

Do you have a specific cleanser that you like?

The nail peptide - What does this seem to do for you?

I guess that's enough for now. Thanks for your help.

Wow Sweets, Those are a lot of questions – no wonder you pushed for a thread. Very Happy

I can help a little. First and foremost NOT everything is set in stone when adopting your individualized routine. The most important thing though is to start with the mildest products using them lightly and go SLOW.

The #1 Biggest mistake people make is jumping in with stronger CPs before acclimating their skin. Then they are unhappy and give up. Like with Retin-A, you need to respect CPs - like Foxe said they are strong "remodeling agents".

If using Retin-A, alternating nights with CPs is good. If using Retin-A every 2nd or 3rd night, you can use your hydroxy exfoliator about 1 hr before your CPs on the alternating nights or on opposite ends of the day.

If using Vit C in the AM, it is best to keep them 12 hrs. apart. Vit C is fragile and has a hard time penetrating the skin. CPs cancel out the Vit C. But Dr. Pickart often say that some women use both together and have beautiful skin. Since so many women love Vit C this makes them feel better, I suppose? I read between the lines for this to mean that, the C may be cancelled out with CPs are doing all of the work, but it makes "Vit C lovers" feel better if they are using it. Also, taking 1,000 mg internally is vital for CPs to bond and better perform with rebuilding skin. I used SkinCeuticals Vit C/E/Ferulic Acid for many yrs and finally gave it up due to it's fragility with CPs. Felt I was wasting my $$$.

Any BHO on top of CPs is fine. Any cleanser is fine. Ph balanced is best no matter what skincare products you may use. I use the OMC.

Mostly, it depends what you are trying to achieve with your skin. If it is scar or stretch mark reduction, you will need to use more vigorous methods which may include stronger CPs, acids and needling. If you are more after anti-aging, then mild to moderate hydroxys and CPs is all that may be necessary.

Hope that Helps!

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:21 am

Skippie wrote:

Dr. Pickart told someone on the skin biology forum to use the Trireduction cream as a moisturizer, so I've been thinking about getting it to put over Skin Signals (which I use every other night). Do you think that's overkill? I really don't care for the emu oil or in fact any oil, so I've been looking for a moisturizer to use with it.

Skippie, Using Tri-Reduction Cream over Skin Signals is too strong. If you don't want to use a BHO then one of the Protect & Restore products like DayCover on top would be ideal. Or alternate Tri-Reduction with your SS.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:29 am

summer2004 wrote:

Hi Foxe,

Great to see a veteran CP serum user like you to share with us your advice & experience.

I have bought a 50ml of Super GHK Copper serum; do you think I can move up straight to Skin Signals (diluted as you suggested) once I use up the GHK?

Summer, You'd be better off to go to CP Serum next before moving up to Skin Signals. I used CP Serum for 6 months before moving up to Super CP Serum which is considerably stronger and needed to be diluted a little.

Skin Signals doesn't seem quite as strong as SuperCP, but I would still use reg CP Serum 1st (at least a 1 oz bottle). Super GHK is also great for around your eyes.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:39 am

Autumn1995 wrote:

Thanks for detailed information.

My skin is very similar to yours. I think I will write the mfg for suggestions on where to start. The SB are reasonably price IMO. I only have one product but it does work. (SB Sebum Be Gone. reviewed)

Hi Autumn, You may want to start off with Super GHK Serum and Exfol (2% Salicylic Acid) - great for oily skin, then move to reg CP Serum.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:52 am

Star Model wrote:

Summer, You'd be better off to go to CP Serum next before moving up to Skin Signals......

This is what I was thinking.

By the way, have you tried the new Latic Power 10?

As I use Retin-A each night after Super GHK, I do think I can use very high acid to do exfoliation. Skin Biology says this new product is good for sensitive skin, so I would like to use it in the morning.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 7:36 am

summer2004 wrote:

By the way, have you tried the new Latic Power 10?

This one I would like info on, as well. It looks like a great product.

BTW, I am 46 and skin biology recommended I start out with the Skin Signals for my "aging" skin.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:04 am

rileygirl wrote:

summer2004 wrote:

By the way, have you tried the new Latic Power 10?

This one I would like info on, as well. It looks like a great product.

BTW, I am 46 and skin biology recommended I start out with the Skin Signals for my "aging" skin.

Oh, I give, already. If you're going to try it, I'm in too Laughing

Did they tell you to dilute it or not?

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:05 am

Boy - it's good to have another CP user take over and answer some questions since I've been off-line. Thanks StarModel.

rileygirl wrote:

BTW, I am 46 and skin biology recommended I start out with the Skin Signals for my "aging" skin

riley - did they recommend you dilute the SS or start out slowly? I spoke with their customer service about ordering either the Folligen or Hair Signals for my DH and they said that if he wasn't use to CPs that he should start with the Folligen (the Hair Signals might be too strong) Hair Signals is the Skin Signals equilavent for hair.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:08 am

summer2004 wrote:

By the way, have you tried the new Latic Power 10?

As I use Retin-A each night after Super GHK, I do think I can use very high acid to do exfoliation. Skin Bilogy says this new product is good for sensitive skin, so I would like to use it in the morning.

I missed out on getting my free sample of that Lactic Power. I just recently placed an order and then noticed the free sample offer. By the time I called the next day to see if they could add it, the order was already out (that was fast!). I hope they still have some around the next time I order something!

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:16 am

summer2004 wrote:

Hi Foxe,

Great to see a veteran CP serum user like you to share with us your advice & experience.

I have bought a 50ml of Super GHK Copper serum; do you think I can move up straight to Skin Signals (diluted as you suggested) once I use up the GHK?

I think that if you have sensitive skin - then go for the Super GHK. Otherwise, starting with the CP Serum (or equilavent in a cream) is a good place to start.

I'm not sure about the Skin Signals and where that fits in for newbies yet. If they told riley she could start with that, then that might be OK. I think I would dilute it still since it seems to be between the CP Serum and Super CP Serum in strength.

You should probably ask Skin Bio about that. It might depend on your skin issues too. If riley's was 'aging', then that might be the perfect product for that issue. We need more feedback on the SS, so hopefully that starts coming in!

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:21 am

Star Model wrote:

Skippie wrote:

Dr. Pickart told someone on the skin biology forum to use the Trireduction cream as a moisturizer, so I've been thinking about getting it to put over Skin Signals (which I use every other night). Do you think that's overkill? I really don't care for the emu oil or in fact any oil, so I've been looking for a moisturizer to use with it.

Skippie, Using Tri-Reduction Cream over Skin Signals is too strong. If you don't want to use a BHO then one of the Protect & Restore products like DayCover on top would be ideal. Or alternate Tri-Reduction with your SS.

I agree w/ StarModel - and do think the combo would be over kill (but I do spot treat over weaker CPs with the SC2X, so I shouldn't talk!) I'm hitting scars when I do that tho.

For a moisturizer - NCN Skincare has a new one that I got a sample of and it's a nice light one. I asked Nanci(she's been a CP fan for much longer than me) if it could be used over CPs and she said YES. It's called Lemon Mousse Moisturizer . NCN also carries CPs.

free skin care · Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:22 am

foxe wrote:

riley - did they recommend you dilute the SS or start out slowly? I spoke with their customer service about ordering either the Folligen or Hair Signals for my DH and they said that if he wasn't use to CPs that he should start with the Folligen (the Hair Signals might be too strong) Hair Signals is the Skin Signals equilavent for hair.

Foxe, they didn't tell me to dilute it, and they just advised I use that (SS) once a day, exfoliate at the opposite end of the day. I have not purchased this, as I have been waiting for some people to report in on results with it! But I specifically asked for my skin issues of the lip wrinkles and very, very slight sagging at the jaw line in case that helps anyone.

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