Retinoid destroyed my skin...please help, anyone
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Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:25 am

Has anyone else experienced damage from a retinoid??
Mine has lasted 5 months after only using the stuff twice.
I look older, sick, and defeminized.
My skin has the orange peel:enlarged pores wrapped in thin crepey Saran Wrap look. And it's discolored too. It used to be porcelain and now it's little reddish yellow and looks sickly/almost purplish brownish in daylight. Natural light used to be my favorite lighting and now it's the worst.
I've got indentations and linear dents (in forehead) that appeared out of nowhere after this happened. I've got numbness in my eyelids and forehead, and sometimes nose and inner cheeks.
Like the type of numbness where it feels like there is a foreign object sitting on your face.
I wonder if it's my deflated skin now, my eyelid area and underbrow are saggy looking and underneath my eye is hollow looking...I literally have to lift up my skin to get any relief because it's also physically uncomfortable.
And it is also very hard not to cry when I don't even look like myself yet I have to try oh so hard not to since my eyes are already suffering.

I Really NEED someone to help me, I'm at the point where I'm literally considering ways to end my life that won't end in me being maimed or worse off than I am now and still alive.
Please don't say "hey if you are thinking of suicide than you've got bigger issues and need to see a therapist"...my issue is the skin, and I just care a damn lot about it and always have..my skin was one of the only aspects of my appearance that I loved and I was always complimented on it and also mistaken for younger than I am even tho I'm only 23 to begin with!
Now I'm being mistaken for much older and my skin is absolute shit. It is depressing as hell.
I never thought it would last this long especially since it Literlly happened overnight.
I just want my skin back...I can't even function like this.

I've been to 3 derm's who were of no help.
My first visit with them were complete 180's from the consecutive ones. They told me not to worry and that it would all go away, then when what they give me doesn't work (hydrocortisone cream for 7 days, then doxy, then cephalexin and hylatopic plus), they tell me that it's just aging (BULLSHIT, ppl don't age to such a degree overnight!!!! Esp at my age and my health), OR turn around and offer freaking more retinoids or microderm (even tho my skin is fragile as all hell!), OR tell me that they are sorry and can't say for sure if it will go away or not, that they have never dealt with this, etc etc.

I'm in contact with a lot of others going through the same thing, but mine seems kind of worse in some ways, and it's literally over my entire face and into my eyelids...either way tho, almost no one is getting better even years after the fact. It's depressing as hell.
I've already lost many years of my life to another issue and I just want to LIVE and look like myself! This is seriously a cruel joke.

I'm tired and I'm incredibly sad and angry that a cream can mess up someone's skin this badly and be permanent. It's beyond bizarre to me. Especially someone whose skin was in such good condition prior.
(Aka I'm an idiot for using it without knowing how powerful it was and without needing it).
I don't smoke drink do drugs, never have. I eat healthy, lots of fish and vegetable and water. Take vitamins. I have literally not let the sun touch my skin in seven years, besides just walking from the car to a building or from my house into the car and even in the car, I protect myself.
I have also not worn makeup in that same period of time more than twice. So I really don't do anything to aggravate my skin and I didn't need to do anything either because it was good naturally. My main skincare regimen was basically cerave hydrating wash morning and night.
I can't believe how different I look with how it is now. It's disturbing to say the least.
It makes me physically ill to think about and I have never sobbed so desperately for something to come back to me in my entire life.

If anyone has any experience with this, please please PLEASE let me know, even if it's just another eternal horror story, I'd rather hear the truth than lies.
I don't think I could feel much worse.

free skin care · Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:57 am

Retinoid and Retin A effect everyone differently and at different times/stages. So at 23 years you were quite young to use that stuff but fear not – permanent damage hasn’t been done but you got to be sensible now with your skin.
First things first – did you use a sunscreen with the retinoid? Retinoids and retin A make your skin more susceptible to sundamage and photoaging. Second at 5 months you are not yet at the stage where you will see permanent changes. That requires at least a year of usage but it is usually more consistent usage. You don’t mention the strength of the retinoid and/or type you used? Could you share that with us?

Now numbness is not normal at all and makes me wonder if there is anything else going on? Health wise I mean like anything to do with your nerves and nervous system or general health like hormones. At 23 years this is likely to be up and down – so that could also be a contribution to what you are going through for sure. Do not consider ending your life – you can get through this and will do so.

Now you want to try and rest your skin and help it return to its former state which means doing things like using a Vit C Serum, Sun Protection and working with your skin (and not against it). People don’t age that way overnight unless there is a health issue or stress or concern going on. Now you are feeling stressed about this – which is having a tumbling effect on your skin too. So trying to take a time out and rest up and maybe meditate is going to help you destress and get things into a wider perspective here.

Tue Jan 24, 2017 9:42 pm

Hey, thank you for replying,
Actually..when I say 5 months.,I mean it's been 5 months since stopping it...and I only used it TWO TIMES to begin with so "stopping" probably isn't really the right term since I barely even started it. It was a sample..I only had a few pimples and build up from pretty much inadveratently doing the caveman regimen on myself for months. That's why when I saw this sample lying around, I looked it up very briefly and saw that it exfoliated. So I thought "what the hell, why not". And I only used the tiny amount. The first day, when I came out of the shower, my skin was immediately dark, blotchy, and "seething" (I'm guessing this was the pores "opening up" everywhere). I didn't really feel anything then so I did a triple take when I looked in the mirror afterwards. I thought I was seeing things. I slathered moisturizer on it and all that and went to bed. The next few days were not much better but I expected it to go away and wasn't nearly as worried as I am now. On the third day my skin felt unbelievably smooth, it always looks smooth but it never feels this smooth so I thought "oh thank god, so maybe it wasn't such a bad decision after all"...then after that day my skin started acting weird, it didn't look quite right and I got itchy pimples...since I'm not familiar with retinoids at that time, I wasn't connecting the dots. I went to the derm and he pretty much was a douche bag and prescribed me another retinoid without even hearing what happened...I was so frustrated that I went home and used my sample retinoid AGAIN because I figure "they're all the same" plus I was just "done" at that point. Went to bed that night and This was when I woke up in severe pain and burning as if I fell asleep in a fire pit.
And it's been hell ever since. The look of my skin has been as I described since day one and worse along with burning, pain and occasional itching after the second use. The numbness came about 20 days later I believe...my skin had felt so tight that I couldn't move my mouth to even eat, I got the pulling sensations as if my face was being torn to the sides...I kid you not, I had the urge to take a scalpel to release my eyeballs and cheeks and mouth and nose from the pressure/pulling. It was so bad I couldn't even think of the look of it. This caused me to get terrible sleep also. I honestly was about to go to the ER but I know that's usually useless unless you are having a heart attack or a stroke. And to be honest, I felt really disgusting and hideous so I was ashamed to be seen and to go there for my skin while other people were probably coughing up blood or something.. So I visited a burn center during this time and they said there was nothing they could do and to go back to my derm. They did see how big of a difference it was from my normal skin (I showed them pics) but they didn't think it was the type of "burn-burn" that they could assist with.

When the pulling sensations subsided was when the numbness entered. I woke up in the middle of the night and felt something on my forehead...I thought it was a rogue tissue or something..but there was NOTHING THere...it was just my skin giving off that feeling, and it spread to my eyes and mid face as well. I got all kinds of pressure in my head and neck and ears to the point it felt I was being strangled because I was probably so tensed up from trying to position my head to sleep with the pulling sensations and numb feeling, but that's besides the point...although since the numbness and stuff happened later on, i can't rule out stress, I've been stressed to the max before and it has never affected my appearance tho...I think the literal pulling and tugging of my facial skin caused the numbness..and since it is more numb where the skin looks more gel/crepey like and saggy..it makes me think it was stretched to the point of nerve damage and never bounced back and was deep enough that it didn't peel either...idk just me thinking out loud.

My eyelids are numb as I write this by the way. They feel like there's cotton inside the skin or something..congested eyelids if that's a thing...and the numbness is more like an "asleep feeling"..the sensation..if I touch my eyelids or such it will have feeling but yet still has the numb sensation as I just sit here and type, he skin is very weak and "lax" where the numb feeling exists. If I lightly press it, a mark will stay for awhile and if I move my eyelids or pinch them, it sticks like that and fails to bounce back. Like I said before..deflated or something. I could be describing everything incorrectly tho..I apologize for my strange descriptions..this is a very STRANGE situation.

Also, the retinoid I used was tazorac .05 (cream)..I could be wrong but apparently it's the strongest type of retinoid there is I believe...which I'm sure doesn't help.

Also, I can't wear sunscreen because my skin hates it. So I use "physical sunscreen" like hats and clothing when I go out...but I have not gone out besides the dermagologist office and burn center since this happened so there's no way sun got on me during or after retinoid use or even before that. I am a home body mostly and avoid the sun at all costs. I cover the windows in my house and even blocked it out in the car on my way to the derm's..people have always thought I was nuts for being so severe and cautious but HEY it worked until I went and used this damn cream! All that effort only to have it completely undone and then some.

I don't have any other health issues to my knowledge and have had bloodwork in the past years that have been normal. I also did get bloodwork done at the gynecologist a month or two after this occurred to rule out hormonal reasons for not healing but they said it was all normal. I got an ultrasound too. That was a really stressful experience..I felt like a monster sitting in that office, watching girls walk by with skin that looks just like mine used to. And I did not even look like me in the mirror, I looked like a zombie. (It should be noted that during my most recent visit to a derm, the assistant asked me if I was sick..she asked me 5 times and didn't believe me when I told her I was not ill..tho I do agree that I LOOK sick because of the skin).

I think I will still got to a rheumatologist, an endocrinologist and a primary tho..just in case...I know the cause was the tazorac but i don't know why I'm not bouncing back..is it the damage is just that bad or something else..idk...but it is very stressful to go out looking like this. Especially at the risk of my concerns being dismissed or having it blamed on something out of my control just to bypass helping me. I know derm's do this when their original plan doesn't work. And I've seen people with literal craters all over every inch of their face, have their concerns dismissed or trivialized..I think that's the only thing worse than the actual problem itself, I have become even more disillusioned with doctors after this experience than I ever have before. I tried to give them all a chance and I actually walked out of one derm's office very pleased with how it went only to come back the second time and have them act COMPLETEKY DIFFERENT. I swear I've entered the twilight zone on more than one occasion since this occurred. And I have realized that it really is truly Only the individual who cares enough about their face to want to find a solution. It seems to just be a game to anyone else.

Sorry for all that unnecessary info.

I do so badly want to get thought this and reach my previous skin on the other side of this Hell, it's not like I WANT to die but in searching for answers..which I've been forced to do since professionals aren't helping..I have found literally hundreds of horror stories regarding this stuff..even retinoids of much lower strengths..even OTC retinol for some. It's almost akin to laser and chemical peel damage. Idk why. And really no happy endings so I have trouble believing I will be any different...many who suffer describing their skin as previously poreless and porcelain just as I did and who were very healthy and careful..it's as if people with even half way decent skin should never ever touch this stuff or else it does the EXACT opposite of what it claims to do.
Looking up the list of things it's supposed to help with now is almost comical because it literally GAVE me the whole damn list. And then some.

I am trying to destress as much as possible..I HAVE managed to get 8-10 hours of sleep again recently but I cry an AWFUL lot and I'm just very worried and concerned..I also have the inability to ignore things even if they will hurt me..I pretty much torture myself by being online now all the time, searching for hope and only finding horror. I'm just so desperate for a damn happy ending to give me something to be postive about.

I saw one person's comment on another similar story on RealSelf and it was something to the effect of "Oh boy, get ready because this is something that you are going to have to deal with the rest of your life, congratulations on being one of the unlucky few...I am in the same boat and once it happens there's no going back"

I believe the OP replied in shock just as I did from behind my screen.

I want to believe everyone who tells me that retin a and the like can't cause permanent side effects but unless every other person on the Internet complaining of this is lying, then I may truly be in trouble.

(This is long so sorry if there are any weird typos..no time to reread)

free skin care · Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:31 am

Okay so using it twice, it may not be the thing to blame. Did you by any chance use anything else that could have caused this reaction? It may have been the product you used contained an ingredient that your face didn’t like. That’s probably what your first derm thought and was trying to help by suggesting another retinoid. Not all retinoids are the same – and using one that gave you a reaction may have of course triggered the situation further. However, skin numbness is definitely something to go back to the derm with – because it could be partially caused by something else – even a medical condition and so its best to get that ruled out – and having a conversation with your doctor may be better too.

Now being stressed out, lack of restful sleep are all things that make anyone (and I mean anyone) 100 times worse. So those coupled with using something that irritated your skin – its no wonder that you ended up having adverse reactions. This is why I think its important to do things like meditation – as it enables the body to deal and process with stresses and strains more effectively.
.
Now not wearing sunscreen is a mistake – I know you say your skin hates it – but not all sunscreens are alike. Physical things like hats help – but they cannot protect you from UVA and UVB rays which is what damages the skin. If you didn’t use any when you used the retinoid – even using it twice – your skin probably had accelerated aging as a result from any UVA and UVB rays. The rays can even penetrate glass – so even if you stayed indoors all day – as soon as you passed a window you would have a hit of those rays and possible damage.

Your skin will change constantly throughout your life at times of stresses and strains and of course when your period is due too. It may be helpful to talk to a therapist about what you are going through – even if its just for moral support. They can help provide tools which come in handy when you are in a stressful situation. Not everyone has your results and so thinking that no one should touch this stuff is a mistake. What has happened is that when you start out – you hit a few bumps and curveballs and that happens to everyone. For now focus on getting your skin back to optimum health using things like Vit C serum (as this helps to repair skin and undo sun damage) and maybe using a light oil like Vitamin E as well as a sunscreen. There are many sunscreens out there – and most do testers in stores so go shopping and try them out and tell them about your concerns. Work on repairing and healing the skin barrier and use this forum to find things out – there is a great deal of information available here.

Be cautious of the internet – RealSelf is notorious for horror stories and often times things can be blown out of proportion (or you are not given full story). Reading things like that will only scare and stress you moreso and not help in the longer run.

I haven’t used retinoids – never needed to, but have used Retin A for well over 30 years (and am in my late 60’s now) and wouldn’t be without it – but it took me time to get to this stage. With skin – and remodelling you got to give it at least a year of regular care and looking after it before you get any drastic changes.

Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:17 am

Well all the stress came after the reaction so I know it didn't cause it initially. It literally happened overnight after the first use and then got 10x worse after second use.
All the issues I got besides the numbness and pulling sensations and some more acne were immediate.

I know that the sun never touched me, my skin was very good before using the retinoid because of how I protected it. All my windows are covered with black out curtains that block the Rays. My hat is made out of similar fiber. I don't even walk around in the sun with a hat on, I just used it to block my face when walking into a building.
I've been told even by dermatologists that what I'm doing is overkill and enough so I think saying that the sun has anything to do with this or aging me is REALLY grasping at straws. I didn't leave my house after using the retinoid except to to derm's and burn center and Gyno...and the reaction was immediate so I know it was the Tazorac, plus all these other people I'm seeing online with identical symptoms can't be a coincidence.

The "derm" who prescribed the retinoid was a physicans assistant and said some other questionable things as well. He didn't even know I used the retinoid in the first place and also this was only after the first use before it got 10xworse. It should be noted that I never needed the retinoid in the first place, so ofcourse I'm not going to get on the retinoid train after this fiasco and should have never attempted to before. I tried to explain to the derm that "this is not my normal skin" but he wasn't listening and as I said before...just being very arrogant.

I told the other derm about the numbness and they looked at me like I was crazy. Lol so I don't think that would be good to go back to them with. They honestly don't seem to know what they're doing besides acne or skin cancer.

This is definetely not a normal skin change, as I said..immediate reaction and on the second use, the burning was so bad that it had me in bed, trying to sleep the pain off. I lost my appetite even during that time. It wasn't for a little over a week that I was able to get into that first derm tho, they are difficult to get into.
I'm not saying no one should use this stuff, I'm saying I shoudnt have and never will again and all I want is my skin to go back to how it was before using it. I feel like when telling my story, people just want to blame me for what happened sometimes out of fear that the same will happens to them...when I know for a fact it was the tazorac..that stuff is a powerful acid after all. And my skin was like porcelain before hand. And I mean in color and quality..it DID have some blemishes from not washing my face but the tazorac was certainly overkill for that.

I don't have sun damage...also vitamin c will burn me, I've tried that even before this incident a year or so ago and there was just vitamin c in a product that felt like I splashed lemon juice on my face or something, my skin can barely handle any every-other day washing with cerave hydrating cleanser right now, so I know it won't be able to handle that, it has been beyond sensitized and it was already somewhat sensitive to begin with, I tried vitamin e and it stuck to my skin like it was a napkin...my skin isn't absorbing stuff yet everything is sticking to the surface unnaturally.

Well I've seen pictures of the horror stories as well and there's way too many floating around not to be real..plus given my own experience, I'm inclined to believe them. A few of them got it out of some doctors that retinoids can do real damage and that they should have been warned. It's the same thing with lasers...docs are all "oh we've never seen this before...impossible" yet just look at the thousands of stories with pics that say otherwise and just common sense...it's a LASER afterall.

I appreciate you trying to help me, I really do and feel like an asshole for responding this way but I think blaming it on sun damage or assuming I aged from waking past a window once or twice (even if it didn't have the curtains) is just something that should absolutely be ruled out, I feel like I tried very hard to make it clear how that was not a possibility,...sorry it's just upsetting.,.becaus This is exactly what the doctors do when they can't help you..find a way to blame it on you even when you do almost everything right your whole life. Meanwhile there's people sitting in their office who do everything wrong and don't have a thing the matter with their skin.

Ive always been complimented on my skin and it was healthy with no prior damage. This stuff is devil cream for me, and I'm not the only one, I know it's not that way for everyone but this is just ridiculous. I know a therapist won't help. Unless the physical issue is solved, then nothing else can be put to rest. I've seen them in the past for another issue and they've even told me themselves that I'm not a good candidate for therapy. It makes things worse but when the issue goes away on its own, I get better. However this issues is not going away and the horror stories show no hope otherwise...and honestly you saying its accelerated aging is 2000000x more scary than it being from a retinoid, luckily I know it's not aging. I'm only 23 and have always taken precautions with my skin and have taken even more care if my health overall the past few years,
When I did go out in the sun as a a child, I was ofcourse slathered in sunscreen but I'm the last seven years I've avoided it completely.

I think this issue can't really be blown out of proportion if its permanent also...if it's temporary maybe...but permanence brings a whole new level to the damage/reaction.
And given the fact that my skin was my best and favorite feature..the toll this takes on me is unreal.

I don't know what else to say...have you ever looked at the forum "retin a toxic side effects they don't tell you" or even here on EDS "retin a causing open pores and texture issues" ??..those are only two of many hundreds of places I've seen this wondered or asked about. Me asking here now is just a last ditched effort because I've already been to every corner of the web on this issue by now.

Also one of my derm's said that tazorac was like "paint thinner" I brought the sample in and she threw it in the trash before my eyes...I asked her about ALL my issues (before the numbness) and she assured me they would all go away..I made iT painstakingly clear what I was concerned about..and she said I just MADE a stupid mistake and that I would be fine and I learned my lesson.
THEN I come in the second time with her, a few months later and she acts like she's never met me before and also she COMPLETELY flipped the script
and said something completely different..I was in tears because of it..:but by the end she kind of reverted back and said about retin a and tazorac, verbatim, "it can either go very good or very bad" (yea and mine went BAD) so she recognized again that this stuff is dangerous to some people tho it took her quite awhile this time..I feel like derm's don't want anyone to know this stuff could be bad news.

Idk...idk what to do anymore...I'm in tears Again typing this...I'm done with this...I think if it hasn't happened to you its probably much harder to believe or want to believe and had it not happened to me..I would probably feel the same about someone complaining about this reaction...but it HAS happened and I am shocked and even more shocked that there is not a simple and easy resolution since it happenED just as easily .
I have plenty to deal with in life and my skin was one of the things that gave me happiness...I can't lose it to one mistake...just can't do it.

free skin care · Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:27 am

I don’t know where to begin with responding to your post. I was trying to help you – but you are so ungrateful and just appear to want to argue.

Stress is unhealthy period. No two people respond and in suggesting things like meditation I was trying to help you by suggesting a means of letting go of stress that’s building up within your body. It doesn’t matter when it showed up – if its there it is going to stop your body being as healthy as it could be. Also if you are stressing moreso – this will stop your face reverting back and make things worse not better. It would be fine if stress helped your body to heal but it doesn’t at all. It is definitely a factor we all have to deal with in life – and there are many different means of dealing with it.

Now re sun – again this wasn’t suggesting this was the cause of your issues – again it was looking at what could have happened since you used the retinoid to prevent your face reverting back. However the extreme routes you go to – would mean either you are highly deficient in Vitamin D and that’s serious to your health or a vampire – which is unlikely. Retin and Retinoids make the skin super sensitive to sunlight – so I wasn’t grapsing at straws as you put it, but simply looking at things that most people encounter without realising. That is one of the reasons I mentioned it – not to blame that as the cause for all your issues.

Not every derm is the same, and whilst you have encountered some unhelpful ones – to rule them all out is just plain stupid. I have worked with the same derm for over 30 years and wouldn’t dream of going to anyone else because he is not only good and helpful but he knows me and my skin better than anyone.

I don’t believe people are wanting to blame you for what happened – but are trying to help you and you seem to want to pick a fight. Tazorac is not the only retinoid and its one of the ones that a lot of people have issues with – so again writing off all retinoids simply because of one bad experience is silly. It may not have been the right retinoid for you but there are many out there.

Vit C isn’t just for sun damage but a great skin healer and remodeller which is why I suggested it. Again millions of versions out there – but you could do a diy version yourself with recipes on the forum – and a lot of people who struggle with Retin and Retinoids find Vit C a suitable alternative. The fact that it helps the skin to heal was why I suggested it – but should have known that you just wanted to write that off.

I am not saying the horror stories are not real – but often times you are not looking at the fuller picture. Retin A for example has many horror stories – and at times its easy to be put off but if you start digging a lot of times you can see things aren’t what they appear. For one many people start out with a very high strength like 0.1%, and some even go to using it several times a day (I’ve seen this countless times). This doesn’t mean Retin A is bad, but its just not being used in the right way and then people take to the net to write Retin A off and say how bad it is when it was completely misused. The same is true for retinoids too.

I keep telling you that your skin will change throughout your life – but you keep ignoring this. Your skin changes every 6 weeks and as you are young this will continue. However you have to be sensible and look after your skin and help it heal. I don’t think you are wanting or willing to hear anything and I have given you a lot of different suggestions already. Your skin may have been good in the past but it can change again, and your life isn't over because of this at all. Once again it is worth while talking to someone trained to help people like a counselor because you need support/help that I can't give you.

Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:10 am

Firstly I am not ungrateful at all. I am in a panic and extremely upset and the way I responded was because it sounded like you were suggesting that other issues caused this when I made it clear that that was not possible. I just felt like i had to repeat myself. And I've already repeated myself so many times to so many people and they just want to igore everything I say. I'm not the one ignoring anything here. It felt like you were the one ignoring what I had already said.
You didn't make it clear that you were telling me about sun and stress because you wanted me to continue to avoid it so it didn't impede healing, you clearly sounded like you were telling me that there's a good chance I got damaged by the sun or stress rather than the retinoid. Or that they were major contributing factors when I stated that this literally happened overnight. If you were just speaking in general and saying to me to please avoid these things now, then I'm sorry. I really am.
I do not want to argue. Not at all. I'm very tired honestly. I did not expect anyone to react to me this way, all I did was try to re-explain things to you so you understood the exact circumstances so we could move on from YES, "grasping at straws".
Again, I know the sun is damaging and I know retinoids make you sensitive but I have already taken the necessary precautions and always have. So that's all I was saying, not that you were wrong that that happens, but that it wasn't the case with Me, specifically. Please understand.

Also I do take vitamin d every day and take in lots of vitamin D rich foods, I've had my blood tested over the years with the same routine of vitamins and diet and it has all been good.

Well I haven't ruled them all out and will be going to another one on the 2nd actually. But you have to admit, I've already been to 3 and they all were the same in the end. When I keep going to these people, I have to think about insurance and I have to think about the extreme likelihood that they are not going to be able to help...and he stress that will cause me...if any derm had helped with this exact issue, there wouldn't be so many people online saying things like "WHY don't doctors know about this or how can they possibly not be aware or have a solutions!?! HELP"
Believe me, I fully expected an easy solution...I thought the derm's would be like "yep we've seen this before, it goes away, you just have to "X" and "Y"".
And at first a couple were like that but it's when I didn't heal that they flipped the script. Which was disorienting to say the least.

You are lucky to have a derm that knows you so well and can help you but you also don't have this bizarre issue, and all my derm's can't even remember who I am, never mind what my skin looked like.

Yes I know vitamin c is like that, I know why you suggested it, I understand but I also know it will cause trouble and I'd rather learn from history from here on out rather than experience. Everyone I've spoken to regarding this (who are dealing with it first hand) have come to the conclusion that vitami c is no good topically on such compromised skin that even water irritates. Skin that burns just while sitting here and doing nothing else. I don't want to risk burning Myself further and i don't know if I'd even be able to know if it was happening since my skin's numbness includes somewhat lessening of the senses..it might be too late before I knew what was happening. This is beyond scary to deal with.
If you "should have known" I would write that off then you must either be aware that it can be the wrong thing for some people or you had a bitter taste in your mouth whilst responding to this in the first place, in which case the tables are turned and I wonder if you are the one who really wants to argue or attack me...really..I already apologized if I sounded like an ass with my response and explained why..and you are just acting like I'm turning all this stuff down for no reason when in reality I have BEYOND good enough reason to...which you seem to ignore and take as me being ungrateful..you must have never had something terrible happen to your skin if this is your definition of "help"..it just seems very rude to me.
I don't think you are quite grasping what I've said all this time as I again find myself repeating. And I see all you did was repeat yourself as well, but you wouldn't have had to if you had just read what I had stated originally.
I don't mind if someone's gives me info that I've already heard or know won't work...it's not your fault or anyone here that this happened and I'm not expecting anything at this point but that's precisely why I was so clear in the original post, I wanted to make it known what factors were possible perpetrators and what ones absolutely were not.

I am taking more vitamin c internally tho, that's the best I can do with how sensitive my skin is. Even if I patch tested on somewhere other than my face, it wouldn't likely react the same way so i wouldnt know until i actually put some on my face and then risk a permanent mark or burn. All I'm trying to do is be cautious here, it's my face after all. I can't just take all your advice and go running off to use it screaming "thank you oh great one, I promise to hold my tongue and just do what you say and ignore the evidence that it will harm me!! Thank you thank you thank you"..this ain't even about being grateful. That's completely beside the point. If you don't know how to further help me That's OKAY. That's all you had to say. I would have never expected to come across this issue either and if it was me on the other side, I might accidentally suggest something unhelpful or even harmful too.
But I would also understand a person's pain regarding something like this as this isn't the first trial in life I've been through.

Isn't retin a, a retinoid tho? I thought they were all classified as retinoids and then there was OTC retinol.
Well I mean I obviously didn't do this correctly either since tazorac is strong as heck and it was not the lowest strength but even so...this reaction is a bit much. Like WAY over the top and also just going on way too long without an ounce of improvement.
And what I was saying was that I HAVE spoken to many who have claimed to use this exactly as provided and even at the lower dose who encounter the same, if not identical, reaction that I did,
I understand that many misuse it as well but to cause such permanent damage is never even suggested as a possibility to people. If this stuff is dangerous, then those who take it should be scared into taking it correctly to the T. So many seem to just be handed the cream with no explanation tho or very little reason as to why it could cause problems.

I am HEARING everything you say but I don't think you are hearing my reasons why I can't do some of what you suggest.
I WILL try my best to destress..but good god it's so difficult...I don't know how to meditate, honestly yes, I see that as crap science, just like those people who say massage and facial exercises work. I believe stress itself isn't what causes issues but rather what one DOES while being stressed, and I feel like I could never heal and it would always be blamed on me being stressed which is so easy for everyone else to say because then it's always my fault and never their problem to help solve (aka doctors). I think if any therapy could help it would just be a sleeping med and an anti anxiety...not talking...because if stress really does play a role itself then I need something just to just shut it down or blunt it. But then comes a whole nother round of factors...medication that could impede healing. And form my past, I've been plenty stressed out, and always healed just fine. More than fine. So this is why it can't all be stress causing lack of healing. None of this adds up. The only new factor is the tazorac. Obviously my skin just couldn't handle it.

When you said skin changes, I thought you were suggesting that my skin just decided to up and become wrecked overnight. Like overnight aging which is literally what tons of derm's tell people. It's unnerving especially being told to a 23 year old who has always been mistaken for even younger. I didn't know you were saying it as in, it's going to continue to renew itself.
I apologize for that. But then you said if it was good in the past, it will change again and my life isn't over because of it...so maybe you were suggesting what I thought, I can't tell.
What I do know, is that, my life is absolutely over if it doesn't go back to how it was. I don't have any other spectacular or pretty features to be proud of...my skin was my thing appearance wise, and looks DO matter, I've done everything for it and to keep it in its naturally incredible state...I was on my way to never having To deal with signs of aging for a damn long time and on my way to having great skin even into my old age...if one mistake undoes all that and ruins it forever..and even makes it worse than it ever would or could be even decades down the road..then that's just way too much for me to bear. I don't want help if there is no help for the actual physical skin issue. If that becomes a moot point, then it's game over.
I don't think it's possible for you to understand because it is not your face.

It's fine that you can't help, I will keep trying...I really just wanted to hear from someone who has actually been through this and made it out the other side...I think that's all I can hope for now...it's too dangerous to go on just anyone's suggestions without understanding or having experienced this issue for yourself. I made that mistake with the tazorac in the first place, I didn't see the horror stories until they happened to me. And that's always the case isn't it, we never see the negative until it's too late.
I've seen similar topics on this forum so I thought there'd be at least someone who was still in the midst of this issue or on their way to recovery. That's all.

And I will still accept suggestions but I will not be made to feel guilty for not following them when there is good reason not to. A discussion is fine, but I won't be forced or told I'm ungrateful...that's just ridiculous given my circumstances. Or that I have already tried. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but I do kind of wish you could experience this for a day or two, then you would have a somewhat better understanding.

To anyone else reading, please do not be hesitant to reply..i did not mean to come off in a bad way, but rather I am just in a very bad place.
I just want my skin to back to normal, and to move on, thats all I want. If anyone can give hope and has been through this or knows someone who has, reply all you want, and if there are any other suggestions, go ahead, just please know that because how fragile my skin is and what's happened, I have to be very cautious. Because if this really isn't permanent, then I don't want to make it otherwise by using the wrong thing.

Thank you.

free skin care · Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:45 am

BrokenPorEcelain wrote:

If you "should have known" I would write that off then you must either be aware that it can be the wrong thing for some people or you had a bitter taste in your mouth whilst responding to this in the first place, in which case the tables are turned and I wonder if you are the one who really wants to argue or attack me...really..I already apologized if I sounded like an ass with my response and explained why..and you are just acting like I'm turning all this stuff down for no reason when in reality I have BEYOND good enough reason to...which you seem to ignore and take as me being ungrateful..you must have never had something terrible happen to your skin if this is your definition of "help"..it just seems very rude to me.

Done with this – this is the final straw. You are rude to me with everything I have posted and suggested. I have gone out of my way to help you with suggestions. You didn’t give us a full story and your posts are full of contradictions. I’m not wasting any more time in trying to help you.

Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:06 am

How are my posts full of contradictions?
I explained everything fully and had to re explain.
I don't think you read everything with proper comprehension so you are misunderstanding.
That's fine if you are done but you are wrong about me just being plain rude or contradicting myself.
I've done nothing wrong and for any ounce of perceivable rudeness, I have already apologized and gave my reasoning why anything I said would come off that way. Something you obviously can't do.

Just Wow.
Nothing's really funny anymore now but this is just comically stupid.
God help the next person dealing with this issue who tries to post about it.

Oh yes "I should have known" you would just see one quote out of the whole context and then see red. I know people like you in real life, once they are even slightly offended, even when they started the tone of the convo, or they propose to help, if you even so much as say one wrong thing or reject their precious help, they act like the whole conversation was only ever an attack against their ego.
You are making this all something it's not. Thank your lucky stars you don't have this going on and maybe grow an ounce of understanding for the state of mind people are in when something like this happens to them.

I don't mind info that won't end up helping me, but not this unapologetic attitude.

free skin care · Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:39 am

Contradiction – a combination of statements, ideas, or features which are opposed to one another. a situation in which inconsistent elements are present. The statement of a position opposite to one already made.

There are so many examples but here is one:

Quote “Natural light used to be my favorite lighting and now it's the worst.”

Quote: “Also, I can't wear sunscreen because my skin hates it”

Quote: “I am a home body mostly and avoid the sun at all costs. I cover the windows in my house and even blocked it out in the car on my way to the derm's..people have always thought I was nuts for being so severe and cautious”

Quote: “I know that the sun never touched me, my skin was very good before using the retinoid because of how I protected it. All my windows are covered with black out curtains that block the Rays”

Likewise you say retinoids destroyed your skin and don’t reveal it was Tazorac you used at 0.5% at the get go which is a high strength one. Not one most derms recommend people start out with. You don’t mention if a derm prescribed you the tazorac.

Mention of stress and response not being good for you and to meditate and you immediately contradict saying that it is untrue, that whilst you are stressed you have been stressed in the past and healed and you don’t know how to meditate (rather than asking a simple question like how or does anyone have any recommendations with how to meditate – as nowadays you can find instructions easily with the internet).

I didn’t’ treat your post as funny and came back with some honest suggestions as to things you could do which you immediately shot down. Now you are using words like “comically stupid” etc and it is just turning into you venting frustration on innocent bystanders who tried to help you.

This forum is for people and their issues but you got to meet them half way. I have been through a lot of things during the later part of my life during the last 60 years with skin and share a lot of my knowledge on the forum but never have I been subjected to such responses like the ones you have given me. You say you apologised but only when what you said was pointed out as being ungrateful.

Anyone with any issue is welcome to post and should post but how they respond to posts and what they do with the information is up to them. However responses like yours put people off from responding and that’s probably why so far I’ve been the only one who commented and won’t be doing that again period!

Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:03 pm

Oh my god, I can't deal with this...are you serious?? NONE of those statements are EVEN contradictions. You took all that time to post the definition (very condescending by the way) and then listed a bunch of quotes that don't contradict eachother whatsoever. I'm not even going to try to explain why..any sane person reading will understand. And just has to go back and read my post I understand the CONTEXT.

They are literally just quotes and none of them contradict eachother. Some are me have to repeat or summarize what I already said but you ignored.
All those quotes actually compliment eachother and make sense.

I will just say...natural light was my favorite light...as in my skin used to look best there and now it looks the worst..even if you are in the shade outside, the light is there, I do look out a window every now and then mind you, and when I do go out I see myself in the car mirror and stuff, but with your attitude you are bound to say that me even taking a one minute peek at my skin with the curtains aside will damage me just like that.
I like to take pictures in the natural light every now and then and look at my skin for a few seconds because it allows me to see everything properly. I don't stand in front of a window and even when I peek, it's quick and the sun is not even directly coming in the direction of the window and there is an overhang. Sorry for exaggerating a TAD.
This is the grasping at straws I'm talking about.
If this is the contradiction you mean, you are mistaken. I have written so much so excuse me for excluding some details. You could have just asked instead of putting me on trial.

Also when you questioned what form of retinoid I used I TOLD you in my very next post. And I ALREADY STATED MYSELF that it was strong...my god you don't even READ WHAT I SAY...no WONDER there's so much miscommunication.

The retinoid was a sample.

The meditating thing and stress, I was just showing how I am in fact not so sure it has any large contribution to what's going on given my past history and being fine. And that I know it's not the actual initial cause.
I was stating my frustration and doubts out loud.
I said I didn't know how to meditate and I didn't ask because my very next thought was that it is useless and crap science like most of the stuff on the Internet claiming to be a miracle cure.
Again, I was writing that as I was thinking it. I respond to your replies AS I'm reading them for the most part.

I didn't say you were treating my post as funny..just that this whole argument was comically stupid because it all formed from the way you reacted to me being cautious about taking your advice..and for good reason.

Your not an innocent bystander anymore,
You took what I said and the way I said it the wrong way and even when I explained and apologized, you just put it down to me being rude.
You tried to help and then reprimanded me for not wanting to use that specific help.
So you turned pretty quickly.
I actually really did not expect that.
I think you have too much of a biased idea of what retinoids are to ever think they could harm someone. And if that's so, you should not have entered the conversation in the first place. And when I'm Done with this reply, I would appreciate it if you didn't continue to sully my original post...just leave me be and let me get help or answers from someone else.
The only reason people aren't responding are because you are making me out to be something I'm not, or they really don't know how to help inthe first place, which is fine. But Now everyone is going to come on here and misunderstood because you attacked me so much and took all my words out of context. Just adds to my suffering and prolongs my possible conclusion to this hell.
Jesus Christ. Unreal. Why would you want that for someone going through this, that's beyond awful.

No actually if you go back to my first reply, I apologized in advance...again not reading what I wrote. And I really shouldn't have had to apologize in the first place, I did it out of respect for you taking the time to answer me even if I wasn't sure about your suggestions. The VEry first thing I did was THANK YOU. I didnt want you to feel like what you said was useless even tho it kind of was. I felt bad for having to RE-point out to you what I already wrote because that in itself was frustrating and my frustration can come out when the tone has to be read over a computer screen..it will always be gray and not black and white. When there is room for misinterpretation, I make sure to let anyone know that I apologize for that...meanwhile your original reply was not clear and made it sound like stress and sun were the cause...even though I was adamant that it wasn't ALREADY..then you TRIED to make it clear but wrote it in a way that still made me question what you were insinuating.

All I can say is that I'm quite shocked you are as old as you are, you could be my mother.
Do you have children?
How do you think they would react if this happened to them, and they'd been through the ringer with every piece of advice, all conflicting, all potentially dangerous and potentially the nail in the coffin.
I REALLY have to be careful...I am going to abide by what others going through this have told me and my own research..and what I already know about my skin and how it reacts...IF suggestions didn't conflict with that research and were much safer, perhaps I would have been open to trying them. And I am. I just have to be picky, SORRY. Its MY face.
((AND perhaps I WILL try to mediate, okay, fine. I will give it a try because I guess it's one of the things that can't hurt me. It just doesn't give me any comfort is all because I pretty much know that meditation isn't going to save my skin.))
...but this is not a happy fun game of trial and error even..TRUST ME...never did I think this would happen...but it does...and it did..and I never would have known about it or believed it until it happened to me. So you are where I was before this happened....coming from a scrutinizing place where it's impossible to understand.

And are you joking?
YOUR TYPE of responses are why people like ME are afraid to post about this issue in the first place!!
If you go to those sites and forums I told you about, a poor woman even says this (EXACT QUOTE)
"This is a good forum because people seem to be more sympathetic to the suffering this has caused others and have tried to be helpful and encouraging. I've posted on other websites and others have been cruel and judgmental. People like us are in a vulnerable and helpless state and don't know where to turn for answers. All we want is are answers and for someone to lead us in the right direction to fixing this - if it's even possible. I just don't understand why something like this can do so much never-ending damage and cause so much pain yet there doesn't seem to be a thing out there to reverse it or correct it. And are there doctors out there can help us? So far, I've run the gamut on specialists and no one will fess up to knowledge that Tretinoin/Retin-A can cause this"

Hint: she ain't talkin about EDS forum

Please, if you supposedly know so much and try to help people..please educate yourself on this supposedly lesser known issue. If not for me, then the next poor soul who asks about it. It's not a normal issue. The usual remedies that normal skin would bounce back from cannot be used without extreme risk when whatever this is has occurred.

Anything I said has come from a place of fear and caution..not malice...only after you reacted the way you did to my original reply, did I say anything that came from a place even remotely akin to the latter.

free skin care · Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:04 pm

First I think I would urge you to be more concise. Very few people are going to have the patience to read through your very long posts. It's almost a novella on your feelings about your skin while basically saying the same things over and over in different ways... and it's a difficult read.
I understand you're upset but it's hard to wade through all that.

My suggestion is based on some of the things I read and the way your skin was damaged. You also have a name that insinuates very pale skin (BrokenPorEcelain). Very pale skin is thinner skin and more vulnerable skin. And it also seems you have extremely sensitive skin anyway (based on your comments) and you should always test anything you're going to use on it.

It seems like you damaged your skin barrier with the strong retinoid Tazorac. Once it was damaged it was even more sensitive and vulnerable to every thing you threw after that to recover so it became worse. It became vulnerable to everything..
The worst signs of damaged skin barrier are sensitivity to everything (everything burns),irritation and/or inflammation, lines and dehydration. Sometimes skin will get slick and tight...but not in a good way. Other times it will lose it's resiliency and be dull and sallow.

I'm not going to make suggestions as to how to repair it. You have goggle and your skin seems too sensitive for any outsider to make suggestions. Just calm down and do your research and then proceed cautiously and carefully.
All I can tell you for certain is that I don't see that this damage is in any way permanent if it was caused by 2 uses of Tazorac and the after effects.
You will recover.

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:18 pm

Hi BrokenPorEcelain,

I had a similar thing happen to me from using Green Cream level 3 and 6 seven years ago and everyone discounted my experience too. For me, my skin looked absolutely gorgeous after using it every other night for about 3 months, then one morning I woke up, looked in the mirror and was horrified to see enlarged pores and lines connecting them. I also developed smallish pock type scars over the next couple of months and every product I tried to heal my skin seemed to irritate it and cause more damage. My skin is still not as good as it was pre Green Cream (retinol), but I found some things that made my skin about 65% improved after I had searched for a year. I now use Derma E hyaluronic acid cream (very small amount--1/10 pea), a decent glob of Derma E peptide cream, a smallish dollop of Now Foods CoQ10 serum, and a drop of myrrh essential oil in the morning. At night, I do the same thing but swap out Derma E DMAE (again, very, very small amount) cream in place of the H.A. cream and Frankincense essential oil in place of the myrrh. I started with just the dmae and ha creams and e.o.'s but have seen an improvement from adding the other stuff. I also use Avalon Organics Lavender cleansing gel since it doesn't dry out my skin and isn't too heavy. Vitamin C of all kinds was very bad for my skin, but it is a minor ingredient in some of the products I use and I have not had any issues. I am very breakout prone, but this regimen helps tame my skin (if I use too much ha or dmae cream it's too heavy and can cause breakouts). I am sorry you're going through this as I know what a traumatizing nightmare it is. I hope some of the products I use can help you also as my skin is finally acceptable to me at this point after such a stressful year or so of agony. I want to stress that my skin is still damaged seven years later so people know it can cause permanent damage (and it did happen over night), but I have come to accept that it will never be what it once was and am happy enough that I found some things that improved my situation because it was REALLY bad.

Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:29 pm

Lemon108 wrote:

Hi BrokenPorEcelain,

I had a similar thing happen to me from using Green Cream level 3 and 6 seven years ago and everyone discounted my experience too. For me, my skin looked absolutely gorgeous after using it every other night for about 3 months, then one morning I woke up, looked in the mirror and was horrified to see enlarged pores and lines connecting them. I also developed smallish pock type scars over the next couple of months and every product I tried to heal my skin seemed to irritate it and cause more damage. My skin is still not as good as it was pre Green Cream (retinol), but I found some things that made my skin about 65% improved after I had searched for a year. I now use Derma E hyaluronic acid cream (very small amount--1/10 pea), a decent glob of Derma E peptide cream, a smallish dollop of Now Foods CoQ10 serum, and a drop of myrrh essential oil in the morning. At night, I do the same thing but swap out Derma E DMAE (again, very, very small amount) cream in place of the H.A. cream and Frankincense essential oil in place of the myrrh. I started with just the dmae and ha creams and e.o.'s but have seen an improvement from adding the other stuff. I also use Avalon Organics Lavender cleansing gel since it doesn't dry out my skin and isn't too heavy. Vitamin C of all kinds was very bad for my skin, but it is a minor ingredient in some of the products I use and I have not had any issues. I am very breakout prone, but this regimen helps tame my skin (if I use too much ha or dmae cream it's too heavy and can cause breakouts). I am sorry you're going through this as I know what a traumatizing nightmare it is. I hope some of the products I use can help you also as my skin is finally acceptable to me at this point after such a stressful year or so of agony. I want to stress that my skin is still damaged seven years later so people know it can cause permanent damage (and it did happen over night), but I have come to accept that it will never be what it once was and am happy enough that I found some things that improved my situation because it was REALLY bad.

Hi Lemon 108,
Thank you for your kind reply to BrokenPorEcelain. I too have had skin damage from a retinoid. Retin A, but mine is more recent. Thank you for acknowledging that this could be permanent, but still improvable. It gives me some hope. When I look in the mirror, I know that what I see is likely going to be with me for a very long time, if not forever. Thank you for trying to help.

TheresaMary, I followed all of my Derms instructions perfectly, did my research, did not overdo it, was very careful and always wore sunscreen, hats, etc. This damage happened through no fault of my own and I have talked to BrokenPorEcelain and she didn't do anything wrong either. Some people just react badly. Thank you for trying to help, but please understand that to see dramatic damage happen to your face is beyond traumatizing. It is made worse by medical professionals not being able to help. They can see that something is wrong, but they don't know how to fix it and end up causing more damage with their treatments. It feels so hopeless.

BrokenPorEcelain,
I am so sorry, We need a miracle.
Your friend (aka Ripples)

free skin care · Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:21 am

I have not said that I believe Retinoids or Retin A are for everyone at all. Nor do I doubt that retinoids can cause problems (hell Retin A can) but I do know that a lot of the stories I have read on EDS and other forums require people to do digging. I am sorry that you had such bad results. I completely understand what it is like to see damage to the face and have fears over it – have been there many times myself which is why I tried to help. In future I won’t bother because it just leads to personal attacks as clearly evident here. Even my family got dragged into it which is unforgiveable in my book. My children are my world and they too have had their challenges and I have been very open about my hubby’s battle with cancer on EDS. However I am also of the belief that as long as a person is still alive – there is always something that can be done to help them and their faces/bodies. It may not always be obvious but when you start looking at factors that can cause effects and rule them out it gets you closer to solutions. I think it also depends on the person – when I have been in my challenges I have never given up hope or the belief that something was possible. Suppose different strokes for different folks. [quote="Sequin"]

Lemon108 wrote:

TheresaMary, I followed all of my Derms instructions perfectly, did my research, did not overdo it, was very careful and always wore sunscreen, hats, etc. This damage happened through no fault of my own and I have talked to BrokenPorEcelain and she didn't do anything wrong either. Some people just react badly. Thank you for trying to help, but please understand that to see dramatic damage happen to your face is beyond traumatizing. It is made worse by medical professionals not being able to help. They can see that something is wrong, but they don't know how to fix it and end up causing more damage with their treatments. It feels so hopeless.

Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:38 am

TheresaMary,

I am sorry to hear of your struggles and wish you and your family the best. It is always a good idea to stay positive, or at least learn to accept something when you know it's not going to change. That being said, it took me a while to come to terms with what happened to me...it is definitely a process.

p.s. You attributed the quote in your post to me...that was not part of my comment

free skin care · Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:41 am

You know there is a saying that our thoughts create our reality – so if you truly believe that nothing can change then nothing will change. Which is why I was trying to originally encourage the person not to give up (my mistake). There are many different ways/methods out there and it just may be a means of finding the right one. If you start to explore things you will see that change is always possible – especially with the skin which rejuvenates and rebuilds and replaces itself throughout our lives. Sure it slows down as you get older but it still happens nonetheless.

The quote wasn’t attributed to you – I was responding to the last message and your post about just didn’t have time to edit to that part “understand that to see dramatic damage happen to your face is beyond traumatizing. It is made worse by medical professionals not being able to help “ that I was referring to.

Lemon108 wrote:

TheresaMary,

I am sorry to hear of your struggles and wish you and your family the best. It is always a good idea to stay positive, or at least learn to accept something when you know it's not going to change. That being said, it took me a while to come to terms with what happened to me...it is definitely a process.

p.s. You attributed the quote in your post to me...that was not part of my comment

free skin care · Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:02 pm

I think that you should go to your doctor and get a referral to a Dermatologist.

free skin care · Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:38 pm

I also agree with that you should see the doctor. Don't use anything by yourself now

Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:31 am

I've already been to 4 dermatologists and counting tho unfortunately

free skin care · Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:04 pm

Maybe a good laser tech person may be more helpful. How long have you been off Retin A. I was on Accutane which is a pill prescription for acne and that crap gave me extreme dry eye so I know it can be really damaging.

Sat Jul 03, 2021 4:08 pm

Hi
Well, i'm 70 and have always had young looking skin but with acne scars and pores. People say I don't look my age and at least 10 or more years younger. But, about 3 yrs ago, I bought all the hype into skin care to try to stay unwrinkled and young... all the recommended hyped products. Boy, did I get a wrong number. Along the way, I used scrubs, both chemical and physical, retinol, retin - A, Vit C, peptides, collagen, essential oils, oils, tried it all and this year was horrified at the way my skin looked .. like a prune !! The skin looks like it's just dehydrating , wrinkling, and awful . None of the products had ever caused me irritation like burning or anything else. I have stopped all those products, will never return to them, and am going back to simple skin care to help rebuild my barrier and hopefully turn back wrinkles. Women , who I thought had the most beautiful skin, that I questioned answered with.. oh I only use nivea , or ponds, and nothing else. some washed with yep a bar of soap. So , I'm going to cleanse, and if using a toner, it will be only rosewater, and a few drops of jojoba or rosehip oil and stop all the rest !

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