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Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:21 am  |
In another thread I mentioned that I'd read this, and Virginia asked me to start a new thread on it.
I was reading in the Skin Biology forum where Dr. Pickart said,
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| The problem with putting hyaluronic acid on skin is that it wets the outer skin proteins and damages the protective skin barrier. This wetting also slows keratinocyte progression to the skin's surface and actually speeds aging. |
(Hope it's ok to quote from another forum) They discussed it in several threads, but it looks as if they haven't talked about it for nearly a year.
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8890018252/m/7300014564?r=7300014564#7300014564
Anybody know of studies where this has been proved or disproved? If not just console me that I'm not putting something on my face that will age me even faster!! I don't go to that forum often, but the doctor seems to have a loyal following. Sometimes the internet has too much info, and it gets very confusing. |
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I’m 60, never smoked, eat healthy, fitness center + hiking, lots of water and nutrients, size 4 jeans  , some lower facial sagging, but it’s improving with AALS, Clarisonic, Remergent, L2K, (including her new hand held devices), Ageless exercises, peels, OCM, etc. “This is my face; deal with it.” Annette Bening |
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Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:52 am |
I have used hyaluronic acid for years. HA is in the product I use now. Ampules of straight HA I use as a first layer to a masque or after a peel.
Hyaluronic Acid locks moisture in your skin. However, I use HA first and apply a moisturizer over it. Without using a moisturizer HA dehydrate my skin.
Dr. Pickart's opinion regarding HA might (or might not) be right. Personally, HA agrees with my skin. I have had nothing but positive results from my routine.
I look forward to hearing other opinions on the subject. |
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As I am getting older I realize my biggest beauty secret is smile more and frown less. Be aware that wrinkles do not make a person unattractive. Cynicism, unforgiveness, anger and jealousy are the real culprits. Sixty something |
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Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:04 am |
| Hyaluronic acid is in the serum and moisturizer I am using now. My skin feels very hydrated. I have heard if you don't put a moisturizer over HA it will dehydrate your skin. I'm curious too if anyone has more info on this topic. |
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Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:58 pm |
Hi, Maria and Winnie.
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| I look forward to hearing other opinions on the subject. |
Yes, I was hoping some of the members who sell HA would comment with their studies. |
_________________
I’m 60, never smoked, eat healthy, fitness center + hiking, lots of water and nutrients, size 4 jeans , some lower facial sagging, but it’s improving with AALS, Clarisonic, Remergent, L2K, (including her new hand held devices), Ageless exercises, peels, OCM, etc. “This is my face; deal with it.” Annette Bening |
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Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:31 pm |
| catballou wrote: |
In another thread I mentioned that I'd read this, and Virginia asked me to start a new thread on it.
I was reading in the Skin Biology forum where Dr. Pickart said,
| Quote: |
| The problem with putting hyaluronic acid on skin is that it wets the outer skin proteins and damages the protective skin barrier. This wetting also slows keratinocyte progression to the skin's surface and actually speeds aging. |
(Hope it's ok to quote from another forum) They discussed it in several threads, but it looks as if they haven't talked about it for nearly a year.
http://healthyskin.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8890018252/m/7300014564?r=7300014564#7300014564
Anybody know of studies where this has been proved or disproved? If not just console me that I'm not putting something on my face that will age me even faster!! I don't go to that forum often, but the doctor seems to have a loyal following. Sometimes the internet has too much info, and it gets very confusing. |
I know what you mean Cat. They are right cuz sometimes overmoisturizing skin is not a good thing and thats what HA does right?? I am a Paula Begoun follower and she says it best here. Hope you find some time to read this. Its long but a good read. http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/art.asp?ID=161
Heres another link from same website: http://www.cosmeticscop.com/learn/art.asp?ID=371 |
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Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:01 pm |
| I have ever use pure HA from psf. I feel my skin really hydrated but sometimes I feel allergic. I am not sure it is from HA or not but it can keep water in my skin very well. |
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Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:14 am |
I am using HA serum from PSF. I always use it followed by a good moisturizer and it seems to work well for the purpose of hydrating my skin.
Before i started using HA serum, my skin was dry and didn't absorb the moisturizer well enough such that i had some residuals of the moisterizer left on my face. I then was told to try HA serum.
Reading your post raises my concern over the use of HA serum a bit though i notice that HA is in many products now. Hope that there are more insightful comments on this coming. |
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Dry skin/Asian in UK/ 25+, Searching for a perfect skin regime. |
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Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:04 am |
Thanks for starting this thread, Cat, and for all the replies! I'm very curious to know what the scientific basis is behind the good doctor's theories, but he seems to be so elusive about it.
I recently started using Retin-A and after that my favorite physical SS suddenly started to sting/irritate my skin. I had wondered what ingredient might be causing that reaction, since the ingredient list seems super-mild, and now I'm wondering if it might possibly be the HA.
But again, I'd want more info. Sometimes it's so frustrating to not be a chemist myself and able to just pop into the lab and get the answer!  |
_________________
32, fair hair/eyes/skin, always a mix of dry/oily/sensitive/acne/clogged pores. But I keep getting compliments on my skin, so something must be working! Beauty blog at http://heliotro.pe; online dating coaching at http://theheartographer.com |
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Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:56 am |
| ginnielizz wrote: |
Thanks for starting this thread, Cat, and for all the replies! I'm very curious to know what the scientific basis is behind the good doctor's theories, but he seems to be so elusive about it.
I recently started using Retin-A and after that my favorite physical SS suddenly started to sting/irritate my skin. I had wondered what ingredient might be causing that reaction, since the ingredient list seems super-mild, and now I'm wondering if it might possibly be the HA.
But again, I'd want more info. Sometimes it's so frustrating to not be a chemist myself and able to just pop into the lab and get the answer! |
If thats what you feel, than don't use it ginnie. Always listen to your intuition. |
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Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:49 am |
I totally agree in theory, SusieQ -- but have you TRIED the stuff? It's the most gloriously delightful physical sunscreen I've ever tried, ever. It's so creamy and yet light and it's totally transparent and not at all greasy or shine-inducing, like most physical sunscreens. It'd be like breaking up! 
I'm going to pay close attention to how my skin reacts over time, since I always find that the initial push with Retin-A is horrid, but that all sensitivities calm down after the first month or so. If I'm still feeling stinging after my other Retin-A symptoms calm down, I may have to ditch the glorious Devita after all (or try and convince the company to take heed of the anti-HA buzz and reformulate!) |
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32, fair hair/eyes/skin, always a mix of dry/oily/sensitive/acne/clogged pores. But I keep getting compliments on my skin, so something must be working! Beauty blog at http://heliotro.pe; online dating coaching at http://theheartographer.com |
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Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:17 pm |
This shocks me. I always thought HA is a natural element that exists in healthy skin and as we age we lose HA and that's why we want to add it topically to help our skin cells retain moister.
If your skin tells you that it needs hydration (if you can see those dehydration "wrinkles"), I don't see what's the harm of using HA plus moisturizer to help. All I know is dehydrated skin is never healthy skin. It is similar to people often ask how often they should mask. The answer is always depends on what your skin needs. |
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Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:26 pm |
I don't know about the damaging effect of HA serum. All I know is I got an adverse effect from using it. I bought a bottle of PSF HA Serum after reading all the raves about HA serum. My skin seemed a lot more dehydrated and dull when I used it. I used it on top of my moisturizer. From what I've read on this thread, people seem to use it underneath a moisturizer. Maybe that's why I had an adverse effect? I've always thought it shouldn't matter so much. Today I went through my stash looking for the HA serum I got thinking I'd try it the other way around this time, but I couldn't find it. I guess I must have thrown it out already. It was that bad for me!  |
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26 with dehydrated combo skin, prone to blackheads and congestions, NC20-25 |
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Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:20 pm |
| This is all news to me since the only times I've used HA is when it's already IN the moisturizer that I'm using...does that mean I should be putting more moisturizer on top of the moisturizer with the HA in it? |
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Aimee3 |
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Sun Nov 18, 2007 1:00 pm |
| I have come across this topic several times on other boards. Though i am concerned, i don't think i will stop using HA anytime soon. What i would like to hear more are comments from long time users such as Winnie. I have only been using products with HA and HA serums themselves for about a year and haven't noticed any ill side effects. |
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about to hit my 40s, retin-a user, differin, LRP |
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Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:08 pm |
| ginnielizz wrote: |
I totally agree in theory, SusieQ -- but have you TRIED the stuff? It's the most gloriously delightful physical sunscreen I've ever tried, ever. It's so creamy and yet light and it's totally transparent and not at all greasy or shine-inducing, like most physical sunscreens. It'd be like breaking up!
I'm going to pay close attention to how my skin reacts over time, since I always find that the initial push with Retin-A is horrid, but that all sensitivities calm down after the first month or so. If I'm still feeling stinging after my other Retin-A symptoms calm down, I may have to ditch the glorious Devita after all (or try and convince the company to take heed of the anti-HA buzz and reformulate!) |
I have tried other forms of HA including the pure stuff and the two I tried always left my skin tight and irritated and than I found out later you should wear a moisturizer OVER the HA cuz the HA is not enough. But maybe the combination of the retin A and the HA just don't chemically match up. Use your retin A maybe 2-3 times per week or back off on the use of it for awhile. |
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Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:27 am |
| Aimee3 wrote: |
| This is all news to me since the only times I've used HA is when it's already IN the moisturizer that I'm using...does that mean I should be putting more moisturizer on top of the moisturizer with the HA in it? |
I don't think so. I put a moisturizer on top of HA serum simply because the HA serum from PSF is hyaluronic acid solution (distilled water + sodium hyaluronate). To my understanding, if you are using concentrated HA, you have to apply a moisturizer on top otherwise it may have an adverse effect, that is, dehydrating your skin. Most of moisturizers that have HA in them, do not have high concentration of HA and they also have other emollients as ingredient.
Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. |
_________________
Dry skin/Asian in UK/ 25+, Searching for a perfect skin regime. |
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Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:12 pm |
| littleprakhem wrote: |
| Aimee3 wrote: |
| This is all news to me since the only times I've used HA is when it's already IN the moisturizer that I'm using...does that mean I should be putting more moisturizer on top of the moisturizer with the HA in it? |
I don't think so. I put a moisturizer on top of HA serum simply because the HA serum from PSF is hyaluronic acid solution (distilled water + sodium hyaluronate). To my understanding, if you are using concentrated HA, you have to apply a moisturizer on top otherwise it may have an adverse effect, that is, dehydrating your skin. Most of moisturizers that have HA in them, do not have high concentration of HA and they also have other emollients as ingredient.
Please correct me if my understanding is wrong. |
That makes sense. Thank you. |
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Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:36 am |
| My first experience with HA was in the Alphaderma skin prep, and my skin really drank it up and loved it. When I ran out I bought the PSF HA and have not been happy, I find it leaves my skin tight and dry feeling, plus the pump dispenser just shoots the stuff out so unless you have your hands cupped around the nozzle it sprays everywhere. |
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Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:21 pm |
HI, Everybody, After reading some of your posts, I went to the Skinbiology forum to read other posts regarding HA. Dr. P referred to the HA keeping skin too wet. (?) I use an HA serum right after I wash my face and apply moisturizer after. I've done this for several months. I believe it's ok so far. Phooey! I don't know.  Thank you for all the conversation. |
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Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:34 pm |
| How many renowned individuals in dermatology are voicing this opinion? |
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Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:43 pm |
Oh, I just ordered PSF HA from EDS today.
| cawl wrote: |
| My first experience with HA was in the Alphaderma skin prep, and my skin really drank it up and loved it. When I ran out I bought the PSF HA and have not been happy, I find it leaves my skin tight and dry feeling, plus the pump dispenser just shoots the stuff out so unless you have your hands cupped around the nozzle it sprays everywhere. |
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Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:52 am |
Wow, we're all really hyped up about a few words from Dr. P. As a recent convert to HA (after VitC and before moisturizers...)I'm going to bide my time before I would every consider ditching the stuff.
Love it, skin craves it now that drying winter heat is with us (found high quality, inexpensive ones atwww.cellbone.com)- why would I ditch it after just a few words from Dr. P (am also a CP user & respect him but my skin's reaction to HA takes precedence)?
I for one would like to see more indepth info/proof before I'd consider battling with my skin over its use. |
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Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:19 am |
It's not entirely unreasonable to think that keeping the skin TOO wet is bad -- think about how fragile your skin on your fingers is when you've been soaking in the bath too long.
we're adults though, right? we get out of the bath with pruney hands and avoid picking up sharp pointy things by their tips.
I would imagine that if our facial skin gets too hydrated, we might notice and well . . . back of the HA. no? |
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Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:39 am |
| k! (orangewasabi) wrote: |
It's not entirely unreasonable to think that keeping the skin TOO wet is bad -- think about how fragile your skin on your fingers is when you've been soaking in the bath too long.
we're adults though, right? we get out of the bath with pruney hands and avoid picking up sharp pointy things by their tips.
I would imagine that if our facial skin gets too hydrated, we might notice and well . . . back of the HA. no? |
I don't apply HA on wet skin altho' it seems some do. What I've recently found my skin loving is this: VitC, wait the 10 min. HA (I use Cellex C Hydra B5 currently), wait about 10 min, then SkinBio's EmuS, adding a little water to it in palm of hand. Wait for it to skin in, and then, it loves an application of NCN's CP Accelerator on top of all this. Can feel my little cells just jumping for joy with this 'special drink' of moisturizers.
But to get to your point- just how many people are there with skin that's too hydrated!!!??? Maybe too oily, but even oily skinned people can complain of dryness.
I personally think our Dr. P has to elaborate a lot more before his remarks on this subject hold any water for me (hee hee..). |
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Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:06 pm |
| arya2 wrote: |
I personally think our Dr. P has to elaborate a lot more before his remarks on this subject hold any water for me (hee hee..). |
LOL! I'm a sucker for a good pun. I totally agree that I want more clear, concise, scientific information. The fact is, MOST actives in skincare can be damaging at certain percentages or in certain forms, right? (I.e., look at overuse of retinol or TCA peels or copper peptides or overdoing the lactic acid or vitamin C... all those things can be harmful in the wrong concentration. I feel like it follows that HA could be damaging in SOME concentrations, too, but we need more info to really decide!) |
_________________
32, fair hair/eyes/skin, always a mix of dry/oily/sensitive/acne/clogged pores. But I keep getting compliments on my skin, so something must be working! Beauty blog at http://heliotro.pe; online dating coaching at http://theheartographer.com |
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